2018 Wimbledon Championships - Men

[brokenshoelace]

I simply cannot understand how anyone can call Simon just a pusher. Folks need to use their eyes. The guy has an understanding of how to play tennis that's deep. I'm watching how he's managed to start renting space in Delpo's mind. He's made him lack confidence in the efficacy of his weapons. I've seen him do this type of stuff to Roger as well. It's heartening to watch him victimising someone else to be honest. But to just dismiss this guys work as just pushing? Nah... look again... carefully

Literally no top 30 player is a pusher in modern tennis, I completely agree. People just like to overuse the shit out of that term to describe relatively passive players (Simon has had some stinkers), and styles they don't enjoy (I've heard it said A LOT about Nadal, hilariously). Other than being a high IQ player and a great mover in his prime, Simon actually has good ground-strokes. Yes, he's a counter-puncher, but that does not mean he's a pusher by any means, especially since he's more than capable of producing his own pace off of both wings, which to be fair, isn't a huge achievement in modern tennis, and should be a minimum requirement, but still should be mentioned if the guy is getting undeserved labels.

 

[kskate2]

JMDP finally pushes the pusher out in 4th set breaker.

 

[Federberg]

It is splitting hairs but I do think the guy is definitely a pusher. He's a counterpuncher and he's crafty, solid returner etc. but the cornerstone of his game is pushing. It drove Roger nuts at a time when he was a UE machine (2008).

It's more than pushing mate. It's very subtle but he's able to delay his shots just enough to put you off and sooner or later it really starts messing with your mind. There's something very uncomfortable about how he plays, and there's far more aggression than he's given credit for. Very unfair to just label him a counter puncher in my view. There's more to it than that

 

[brokenshoelace]

Nadal brought up a very good point in his press conference yesterday: For all the talk about the surface and how it's playing, all he sees in the quarter finals are the favorites (named Novak, Roger and Del Potro, despite the latter having not won his match yet at the time), and big servers (Anderson, Isner, Raonic). I don't think this is a coincidence, and goes to show you how misunderstood surfaces are. Yes, conditions are warm and the bounce is high, but in addition to favoring spin, this favors big servers A LOT. Roger himself echoed this in the press conference (and Isner mentioned how much he's loving this), and even cited his final with Roddick in 2009 which was played under similar conditions and brought up how he barely managed to break him all match. I wish people can be less dogmatic and analyze.

 

[10isfan]

Simon isn’t a pusher. Monfils, Tomic, sometimes Istomin are pushers.

 

[kskate2]

My definition of a pusher: People who can generate their own pace, but don't for whatever reason and rely almost entirely on a defensive game to win points where minimal aggression is applied.

 

[Federberg]

My definition of a pusher: People who can generate their own pace, but don't for whatever reason and rely almost entirely on a defensive game to win points where minimal aggression is applied.

there's so much more to what Simon does out there in my view

 

[kskate2]

there's so much more to what Simon does out there in my view

That's where we differ in opinion. No harm done.

 

[DarthFed]

Nadal brought up a very good point in his press conference yesterday: For all the talk about the surface and how it's playing, all he sees in the quarter finals are the favorites (named Novak, Roger and Del Potro, despite the latter having not won his match yet at the time), and big servers (Anderson, Isner, Raonic). I don't think this is a coincidence, and goes to show you how misunderstood surfaces are. Yes, conditions are warm and the bounce is high, but in addition to favoring spin, this favors big servers A LOT. Roger himself echoed this in the press conference (and Isner mentioned how much he's loving this), and even cited his final with Roddick in 2009 which was played under similar conditions and brought up how he barely managed to break him all match. I wish people can be less dogmatic and analyze.

Roger had a tough time breaking anyone for many years and his play all around was awful that match. He'd have only had more problems breaking if the grass was slick. Big servers are succeeding because their serves are still untouchable and on the other side they are able to tee off on returns since it is so much easier to return the average serve. The number of breaks we've seen so far has been crazy, I'd love to see the % of games held and compare it to other tournaments if that stat is anywhere.

 

[DarthFed]

My definition of a pusher: People who can generate their own pace, but don't for whatever reason and rely almost entirely on a defensive game to win points where minimal aggression is applied.

That's the important distinction. Of course Simon can hit with pace and I've seen him play very aggressively for prolonged stretches but his default game/comfort zone is pushing/counterpunching. I mean if Simon isn't a pusher then there is no such thing.

 

[Federberg]

Roger had a tough time breaking anyone for many years and his play all around was awful that match. He'd have only had more problems breaking if the grass was slick. Big servers are succeeding because their serves are still untouchable and on the other side they are able to tee off on returns since it is so much easier to return the average serve. The number of breaks we've seen so far has been crazy, I'd love to see the % of games held and compare it to other tournaments if that stat is anywhere.

in fairness one of the points Roger made in the interview broken sited is that the current conditions are great for big servers because of the way the balls are shooting off on serve. He thinks it gives bigger servers an advantage especially

 

[Federberg]

That's the important distinction. Of course Simon can hit with pace and I've seen him play very aggressively for prolonged stretches but his default game/comfort zone is pushing/counterpunching. I mean if Simon isn't a pusher then there is no such thing.

To me, what Gael does most of the time is pushing. There you have a guy who when he's in the mood for it, hits the ball harder than anyone, but his default setting is to push the ball back in play and try to kill you with attrition. It's basically junior tennis. Simon will often use the opponents pace yes, but he does that to a point then comes at you with an unexpected change of pace or direction. His movement top top class which makes him a devil to get past. He is such a good baseliner and timer of the ball that if your product isn't up to scratch you'll get frustrated and confused

 

[DarthFed]

in fairness one of the points Roger made in the interview broken sited is that the current conditions are great for big servers because of the way the balls are shooting off on serve. He thinks it gives bigger servers an advantage especially

That is tall servers. A big server like Roddick would definitely prefer a very low bounce since he naturally isn't going to have the same height on the ball as guys close to 7 feet tall.

 

[Federberg]

That is tall servers. A big server like Roddick would definitely prefer a very low bounce since he naturally isn't going to have the same height on the ball as guys close to 7 feet tall.

nope, he made specific mention of Roddick as well and that final in particular. I'm just telling you what he said. I haven't really given it much thought

 

[Federberg]

I'll try to find it..

 

[10isfan]

I’m sure everyone on the ATP was/is happy Monfils never figured out how to play tennis. With all that power and speed, he could have been a staple in the top ten for years. Instead he chooses to push. He is an enigma.

 

[DarthFed]

nope, he made specific mention of Roddick as well and that final in particular. I'm just telling you what he said. I haven't really given it much thought

I think regardless of what he said it'd be tougher to return Roddick's serve on slick low bouncing grass than high bouncing. With Isner, Karlovic and Raonic it's a whole different animal.

 

[Federberg]

the specific bit starts around the minute 06:00...

 

[DarthFed]

To me, what Gael does most of the time is pushing. There you have a guy who when he's in the mood for it, hits the ball harder than anyone, but his default setting is to push the ball back in play and try to kill you with attrition. It's basically junior tennis. Simon will often use the opponents pace yes, but he does that to a point then comes at you with an unexpected change of pace or direction. His movement top top class which makes him a devil to get past. He is such a good baseliner and timer of the ball that if your product isn't up to scratch you'll get frustrated and confused

To me it's not about what they are capable of but what their norm is. Monfils is a pusher too despite having crazy power. Simon and Mannarino have a lot to their games, they are very crafty, change pace and spin very effectively, they counterpunch well and can hit aggressively when least expected. But their comfort zone is pushing IMO.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I think the best label, that describes Simon is not "pusher" or "counterpuncher", but a "pest". He is truly like a pest that won't go away. Just when you think he is gone, he will reappear in another form.

Having said that, I would strongly disagree with FB and BS that he is not a pusher. Actually, as KS defined a pusher might be able to generate pace but prefers not. In Simon's case, often he has difficulty with slow pace balls. Even the commies were saying that if you give him a slow pace ball right up in the middle, he would not know how to deal with it and err.

Simon often puts you into a lull with a repetitive pattern of CC exchanges for about 20 shots and then suddenly changes directions forcing you to err.

I believe Roger lost to Simon in Toronto in 2008. Roger told in the presser that he got so bored playing him and went to sleep and when he woke up he realized he had lost the match (obviously, I am paraphrasing).