2015 Australian Open Final: Djokovic vs. Murray

[GameSetAndMath]

P.S. I was just messing around with the Puerta/Philippoussis comment in case that wasn't clear!

It was a good point though, because it's true...

Kieran, you asked what is the logic in my other post relating to this topic. The key point is
that all of this boils down to weak era theory which has been debated at length and I believe
even you agreed that one can only defeat people who are across the net and that cannot
take anything away from the winner. I don't want to rehash the same argument.

 

[Kieran]

P.S. I was just messing around with the Puerta/Philippoussis comment in case that wasn't clear!

It was a good point though, because it's true...

Kieran, you asked what is the logic in my other post relating to this topic. The key point is
that all of this boils down to weak era theory which has been debated at length and I believe
even you agreed that one can only defeat people who are across the net and that cannot
take anything away from the winner. I don't want to rehash the same argument.

No, that's not the point being discussed. It's a fair comment to make that although Andy is now 2-6 in slam finals, all 8 finals have been against Roger or Novak. Given the strengths of these men, do you think Andy has had it easy, or tough, in these 8? I believe that he's not as great as the Three because if you look at Rafa and Novak's first 8 slam finals, they had it just as tough but they held winning records. Even still, from Andy's perspective he might have been more fortunate in his enemies.

I think you would agree, while we would both agree that there's nothing he could do about it in reality, because it is what it is...

 

[TsarMatt]

Woke up today and then realised there's no more tennis on.

 

[Billie]

It's a great game, you won't regret it and this year it has a potential to be a great one.

Just cheer for the Seahawks and enjoy the physicality of the game. Sort of like Rafa vs Nole:clap

 

[Kirijax]

Every year this is me after the day of the final:

I feel lost that there's no tennis on today. Help me. Oh well, I'll just tune in to the Super Bowl, despite never seen an American football match before. :/

That is why the support group called Tennis Frontier exists. Quick, someone make an outrageous statement (ex: Berdych will win the Calendar Grand Slam next year) and let's all go crazy for a couple of days.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

It was a good point though, because it's true...

Kieran, you asked what is the logic in my other post relating to this topic. The key point is
that all of this boils down to weak era theory which has been debated at length and I believe
even you agreed that one can only defeat people who are across the net and that cannot
take anything away from the winner. I don't want to rehash the same argument.

No, that's not the point being discussed. It's a fair comment to make that although Andy is now 2-6 in slam finals, all 8 finals have been against Roger or Novak. Given the strengths of these men, do you think Andy has had it easy, or tough, in these 8? I believe that he's not as great as the Three because if you look at Rafa and Novak's first 8 slam finals, they had it just as tough but they held winning records. Even still, from Andy's perspective he might have been more fortunate in his enemies.

I think you would agree, while we would both agree that there's nothing he could do about it in reality, because it is what it is...

I am not saying Andy had it easy. What I am trying to say is that it is not that Fed had it easy either. If it was so easy to win slams with easy opponents in Fed's era, why did not Safin rack up
10 titles or Hewitt go for a dozen. Why did it take a Federer to rise to the situation and
seize the moment. The thing is if player A was a one trick pony with a weak opponent
and another player B reached final and lost to a strong player, then you may say the
opponent actually mitigates A's record.

 

[Kieran]

I am not saying Andy had it easy. What I am trying to say is that it is not that Fed had it easy either. If it was so easy to win slams with easy opponents in Fed's era, why did not Safin rack up
10 titles or Hewitt go for a dozen. Why did it take a Federer to rise to the situation and
seize the moment. The thing is if player A was a one trick pony with a weak opponent
and another player B reached final and lost to a strong player, then you may say the
opponent actually mitigates A's record.

Were Andy's opponents in his first 8 slam finals better or worse than Roger's? Obviously, if you're facing Roger, Rafa or Novak in every slam final, it's as tough as it gets in this era. Andy isn't great enough to have a winning record in these finals, but if he faced Puerta or Phillippoussis, as was suggested...that's all that's being said.

I think you might agree with me, too, if you think about it...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I am not saying Andy had it easy. What I am trying to say is that it is not that Fed had it easy either. If it was so easy to win slams with easy opponents in Fed's era, why did not Safin rack up
10 titles or Hewitt go for a dozen. Why did it take a Federer to rise to the situation and
seize the moment. The thing is if player A was a one trick pony with a weak opponent
and another player B reached final and lost to a strong player, then you may say the
opponent actually mitigates A's record.

Were Andy's opponents in his first 8 slam finals better or worse than Roger's? Obviously, if you're facing Roger, Rafa or Novak in every slam final, it's as tough as it gets in this era. Andy isn't great enough to have a winning record in these finals, but if he faced Puerta or Phillippoussis, as was suggested...that's all that's being said.

I think you might agree with me, too, if you think about it...

Things are not as simple as you think. Fed won against both Novak and Andy at USO.
When it came to facing JMDP, he failed despite JMDP being a weaker opponent on paper
at that time in comparison to Andy and Novak. It is hard to say whether something would
be easy or not when it had not happened.

 

[Kieran]

I am not saying Andy had it easy. What I am trying to say is that it is not that Fed had it easy either. If it was so easy to win slams with easy opponents in Fed's era, why did not Safin rack up
10 titles or Hewitt go for a dozen. Why did it take a Federer to rise to the situation and
seize the moment. The thing is if player A was a one trick pony with a weak opponent
and another player B reached final and lost to a strong player, then you may say the
opponent actually mitigates A's record.

Were Andy's opponents in his first 8 slam finals better or worse than Roger's? Obviously, if you're facing Roger, Rafa or Novak in every slam final, it's as tough as it gets in this era. Andy isn't great enough to have a winning record in these finals, but if he faced Puerta or Phillippoussis, as was suggested...that's all that's being said.

I think you might agree with me, too, if you think about it...

Things are not as simple as you think. Fed won against both Novak and Andy at USO.
When it came to facing JMDP, he failed despite JMDP being a weaker opponent on paper
at that time in comparison to Andy and Novak. It is hard to say whether something would
be easy or not when it had not happened.

Things are very simple. Andy has a 2-6 record in major finals, which looks terrible even compared to Novak's, but when we look at who he faced, we can see why. Nobody is criticising Federer, just looking at the tougher path Andy had in his first 8 slam finals. The name Puerta was also mentioned. I think Andy would have liked a shot at him instead, no?

 

[Billie]

Nole was 20 when he faced Roger in the USO final, but it is comforting to know that he was considered a threat to him at that age and stage of Nole's career.

I agree with Kieran and others who think that Andy has faced much better competition in his major finals and that he would have done better if it weren't for the big 3. I really can't remember, but who did Federer face in the USO finals besides Nole and Delpo?

 

[Fiero425]

Nole was 20 when he faced Roger in the USO final, but it is comforting to know that he was considered a threat to him at that age and stage of Nole's career.

I agree with Kieran and others who think that Andy has faced much better competition in his major finals and that he would have done better if it weren't for the big 3. I really can't remember, but who did Federer face in the USO finals besides Nole and Delpo?

Federer played in 6 straight finals and was tested each time with past or future #1's and winners of the USO; Hewitt, Agassi, Roddick, Djokovic, Murray, Del Po in succession! Grueling, finally losing in '09 to Del Po! :clap :angel:

 

[Riotbeard]

Nole was 20 when he faced Roger in the USO final, but it is comforting to know that he was considered a threat to him at that age and stage of Nole's career.

I agree with Kieran and others who think that Andy has faced much better competition in his major finals and that he would have done better if it weren't for the big 3. I really can't remember, but who did Federer face in the USO finals besides Nole and Delpo?

Yeah, say what you will but Andy has only face people who have won 8+ slams in finals.... Novak at least had a tsonga in there. It is what is. Andy has exclusively played the best in the finals...

 

[Billie]

Thanks Fiero, I forgot about Murray as well.

I think that both Roger and Nole are tougher competition in a major final than Roddick, Hewitt and older Agassi, so I stand by my initial statement that Andy had it much tougher to win these finals. I am not saying that he would surely beat either one of them, but probably had better chances than facing Fed and Nole all the time.

 

[herios]

Every year this is me after the day of the final:

I feel lost that there's no tennis on today. Help me. Oh well, I'll just tune in to the Super Bowl, despite never seen an American football match before. :/

That is why the support group called Tennis Frontier exists. Quick, someone make an outrageous statement (ex: Berdych will win the Calendar Grand Slam next year) and let's all go crazy for a couple of days.

I can send you some links with the best routines from the European figure skating championships

 

[Fiero425]

Every year this is me after the day of the final:

I feel lost that there's no tennis on today. Help me. Oh well, I'll just tune in to the Super Bowl, despite never seen an American football match before. :/

That is why the support group called Tennis Frontier exists. Quick, someone make an outrageous statement (ex: Berdych will win the Calendar Grand Slam next year) and let's all go crazy for a couple of days.

I can send you some links with the best routines from the European figure skating championships

OMG, did I miss it again? They just don't advertise like they used to! Probably not much to it without Plushenko for me anyway! I do like Yulia still! :angel: :dodgy: Update: Looked it up; telecast is next sat. on NBC around 4 pm, EST!

 

[TennisFanatic7]

What a fool I was to think I could make a little joke and not open up this whole kettle of fish :laydownlaughing

 

[Kirijax]

Every year this is me after the day of the final:

I feel lost that there's no tennis on today. Help me. Oh well, I'll just tune in to the Super Bowl, despite never seen an American football match before. :/

That is why the support group called Tennis Frontier exists. Quick, someone make an outrageous statement (ex: Berdych will win the Calendar Grand Slam next year) and let's all go crazy for a couple of days.

I can send you some links with the best routines from the European figure skating championships

LOL My wife will be grateful. It is the only sport I have ever seen her interested in. I actually watched a manly Russian skater in a sheer nudey see-through outfit doing his quad jumps a couple nights ago. It stays with you.

 

[Billie]

LOL Fiero, I like Plushenko as well....also Alexei Yagudin, besides my Canadian guys these are the other two I was always cheering for.

 

[Fiero425]

LOL Fiero, I like Plushenko as well....also Alexei Yagudin, besides my Canadian guys these are the other two I was always cheering for.

Funny, they've found an abundance of ladies to fill the ranks after Slutskaya and Butyrskaya retired, but having a HELL of a time getting good men to fill the void of Plushenko! At this rate, they'll still need to drag him out of mothballs in 2018 & 2022! :snicker :angel: :dodgy: :cover

 

[Kirijax]

That's his name. Plushenko. Very popular in Japan for whatever reason.