2015 ATP World Tour Finals

[Kieran]

Please tell us something incredibly stupid and self-serving Federer has said, Carol. And don't worry, we can wait as I'm sure you won't find much, if anything.

There are and many, the difference is that whatever Roger says doesn't affect to me at all, the opposite of you that whatever Rafa says it looks that it affects to you a lot

So many you couldn't even think of one. I wonder why. Actually, nothing about what Rafa said other than what was correctly called self-serving by others "affects" me in any way whatsoever. Rather I was looking for some "incredibly stupid and self-serving" examples of Federer from you but I knew you didn't have any.

See, because you don't like Rafa, you're not dealing with what he actually said. Same with most of the posts here, which reflexively attacked him by saying the WhatTheFeck should be always indoors because it always was (wrong :cover ) or that it should be indoors because it comes at the end of the "indoor season of about two tourneys (which is wrong again).

What Rafa is saying makes sense, but the problem with it is, it's unworkable. He's saying that players qualify for the WhatTheFeck playing on all surfaces but the season end finale doesn't reflect this. Well, apart from the fact that it's been played on grass, and outdoors hards, and indoors carpet and slow hards, his point is kind of valid. But you can't keep changing venue for this event, it has to be tied to a venue for a certain span, and it isn't practical for London (where it is now) to change surface every year.

Someday the WTF will be played on clay. Indoor clay, in some rich Arab gold state. And we all know this.

Hands up how many of you gasped and complained when it was played outdoors on hards in Houston?

Exactly.

None of you...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

The thing is, every big tournament (slams) is being played on the surface (or similar) that the tournaments leading up to them are being played on. It is the pinnacle of that surface's season. WTF , naturally, following the same idea. Unless you juggle everything in the season , I do not see how playing the WTF on clay or grass make any sense.

 

[Front242]

Exactly. This is indoor tennis season.

 

[Kieran]

Exactly. This is indoor tennis season.

Except when it wasn't, eh?

I'm gonna have to say again for the umpteenth time that I disagree with Rafa but 90% of the replies against him here are solely motivated by the fact you's hate the bloke. Nothing at all to do with what he actually said, which contains merit, but is impractical. And yes, he's self serving. Name me a billionaire sportsman who isn't...

 

[nehmeth]

The thing is, every big tournament (slams) is being played on the surface (or similar) that the tournaments leading up to them are being played on. It is the pinnacle of that surface's season. WTF , naturally, following the same idea. Unless you juggle everything in the season , I do not see how playing the WTF on clay or grass make any sense.

In the 45 year history of the Year End Championships, three of those years (approx 7%) were played outdoors -1 year on grass(74), 2 years on cement(03-04). The ATP seems settled on it being inside. Now if they can put clay over hard courts in Madrid, they could do that inside somewhere I imagine. I'd rather see them go back to carpet.

 

[Kieran]

The thing is, every big tournament (slams) is being played on the surface (or similar) that the tournaments leading up to them are being played on. It is the pinnacle of that surface's season. WTF , naturally, following the same idea. Unless you juggle everything in the season , I do not see how playing the WTF on clay or grass make any sense.

In the 45 year history of the Year End Championships, three of those years (approx 7%) were played outdoors -1 year on grass(74), 2 years on cement(03-04). The ATP seems settled on it being inside. Now if they can put clay over hard courts in Madrid, they could do that inside somewhere I imagine. I'd rather see them go back to carpet.

Exactly. The idea that Big Things in sports are driven by an ideal is false: commerce rules, and that's why the ATP have been open to other ideas: not because the ideas are good, but because the ideas put bums on seats and keep the show on the road.

That's tradition in action.

And I totally agree: I'd like to see them go back to carpet, or something similarly quick. And not just for the WhatTheFeck, but for all indoor tourneys. You'd see blokes with the skill of Tsonga develop the winning mentality of Nadal or Djokovic and the tour would suddenly look different...

 

[nehmeth]

Hands up how many of you gasped and complained when it was played outdoors on hards in Houston?
None of you...

:wave

We weren't up in arms on a message board somewhere, but there were a lot of us at the tennis club who thought it was a stupid idea. There were several stages to it... when it was announced, when we were watching it being played and the told you so's when they said they were going back indoors when they moved to Shanghai.

edit: And back in the day, when they first went from carpet to indoor hard courts (I think Germany) there was no small amount of discussion... all agin' it.

 

[Kieran]

As a diplomatic gesture I'll accept that but I'm sure you see my point...

 

[Fiero425]

To me, the cream always rises to the top and that is why guys like Connors, Borg, and the like won across all surfaces--the Swede won a number of carpet events, as well as Jimbo, although McEnroe did more than anybody else (it was perfectly suited for his game).

:snicker
If Jimmy Connors had only ever played at the U.S. Open, he would still have won a slam playing on three different surfaces.

Poor Borg couldn't even do it when it was clay.

It was unfortunate for Borg, but every great champion has a title which has eluded him or her; more so with the men! Back in my day, there was a docu-program on Laver, "One More For The Rocket" I think it was called! It had to do with one of the most successful players in the history of the game being disappointed because he hadn't won a WCT Chp Final! At the time it was equivalent to today's Masters: qualifying events with points given and the top 8 going for the title; single elim.! OTTH, he lost his 1st 2 chances to Rosewall in the finals of '71 & '72, then to Stan Smith early! The last time I can remember, he lost a 5 setter to Borg in the semi's of '75! He never qualified again IIRC and we're supposed to feel bad I guess! He was considered the best of all time giving him more credit because of his inability to play on the tour for almost 6 years due to Pre-Open standard!

Borg's still great even w/o a USO title! Connors has the most titles (109) without a FO! Sampras considered the Grass King with 7 Wimbledon titles, but no FO final as well! The legend of Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic will be talked about for years to come, all having a deficiency of some kind, but their combined names will be splashed all over the record books long after we're gone! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

The thing is, every big tournament (slams) is being played on the surface (or similar) that the tournaments leading up to them are being played on. It is the pinnacle of that surface's season. WTF , naturally, following the same idea. Unless you juggle everything in the season , I do not see how playing the WTF on clay or grass make any sense.

In the 45 year history of the Year End Championships, three of those years (approx 7%) were played outdoors -1 year on grass(74), 2 years on cement(03-04). The ATP seems settled on it being inside. Now if they can put clay over hard courts in Madrid, they could do that inside somewhere I imagine. I'd rather see them go back to carpet.

Exactly. The idea that Big Things in sports are driven by an ideal is false: commerce rules, and that's why the ATP have been open to other ideas: not because the ideas are good, but because the ideas put bums on seats and keep the show on the road.

That's tradition in action.

And I totally agree: I'd like to see them go back to carpet, or something similarly quick. And not just for the WhatTheFeck, but for all indoor tourneys. You'd see blokes with the skill of Tsonga develop the winning mentality of Nadal or Djokovic and the tour would suddenly look different...

My point was, the surface has to be similar to the tournaments leading up to it, that's all. Can you imagine having Wimbledon right after the European clay court season? It has to make sense. If you made WTF clay, everything staying the same, even Rafa would be against it and would complain about lack of practice time.

I do love the carpet idea and I miss it too, but you have to change the surface of a whole bunch of tournaments for that to happen . Maybe one day...

 

[Kieran]

I agree with you buddy, I disagree with Rafa. But I see he's making a valid point, if a harmless one and an impractical one. My problem with the reaction is that it's got more to do with people's feelings towards Rafa, than anything else.

By the way, Wimbledon used to be played a single week after the French, in the 1970's. Now, that was a drastic change, given how both surfaces played back then...

 

[Fiero425]

I agree with you buddy, I disagree with Rafa. But I see he's making a valid point, if a harmless one and an impractical one. My problem with the reaction is that it's got more to do with people's feelings towards Rafa, than anything else.

By the way, Wimbledon used to be played a single week after the French, in the 1970's. Now, that was a drastic change, given how both surfaces played back then...

Which made Borg's accomplishment of taking 5 Wimbledons; 3 times after winning the FO with a wood racket even more amazing! I'd like to see Rafa do that just once after 1 week of preparation! :eyepop :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Kieran]

I agree with you buddy, I disagree with Rafa. But I see he's making a valid point, if a harmless one and an impractical one. My problem with the reaction is that it's got more to do with people's feelings towards Rafa, than anything else.

By the way, Wimbledon used to be played a single week after the French, in the 1970's. Now, that was a drastic change, given how both surfaces played back then...

Which made Borg's accomplishment of taking 5 Wimbledons; 3 times after winning the FO with a wood racket even more amazing! I'd like to see Rafa do that just once after 1 week of preparation! :eyepop :angel: :dodgy:

I'd like to see anyone do it, including Borg. Far as I recall, the years where there was only a week between Paris and Wimbledon were 1974-1976. He didn't win the two back to back in those years...

 

[Kirijax]

TF thread promos I made for Twitter.

 

[Carol]

Please tell us something incredibly stupid and self-serving Federer has said, Carol. And don't worry, we can wait as I'm sure you won't find much, if anything.

He has complained about the slow courts, he did complain about the 'darkness' in the court after to lose Wimbledon final 2008, about his back, about many things that I really don't care (I'm sure he is not self-serving :laydownlaughing) and I don't remember but if you ask Becker he probably would tell you more about it :snicker

 

[Front242]

Please tell us something incredibly stupid and self-serving Federer has said, Carol. And don't worry, we can wait as I'm sure you won't find much, if anything.

He has complained about the slow courts, he did complain about the 'darkness' in the court after to lose Wimbledon final 2008, about his back, about many things that I really don't care (I'm sure he is not self-serving :laydownlaughing) and I don't remember but if you ask Becker he probably would tell you more about it :snicker

I never said anything about him complaining. Everyone complains. What I said was I knew you couldn't provide any examples of "incredibly stupid and self-serving" comments from him which you have duly proven to the whole forum with that reply above. If you seriously think any of the above are examples of him being incredibly stupid and self-serving, I pity your comprehension.

 

[Carol]

Please tell us something incredibly stupid and self-serving Federer has said, Carol. And don't worry, we can wait as I'm sure you won't find much, if anything.

He has complained about the slow courts, he did complain about the 'darkness' in the court after to lose Wimbledon final 2008, about his back, about many things that I really don't care (I'm sure he is not self-serving :laydownlaughing) and I don't remember but if you ask Becker he probably would tell you more about it :snicker

I never said anything about him complaining. Everyone complains. What I said was I knew you couldn't provide any examples of "incredibly stupid and self-serving" comments from him which you have duly proven to the whole forum with that reply above. If you seriously think any of the above are examples of him being incredibly stupid and self-serving, I pity your comprehension.

Yep, I seriously think any of above are examples of him being incredible stupid and self-serving and talking about 'I pity your comprehension' look at you in the mirror complaining all the time about Nadal

 

[the AntiPusher]

Tennis like this, ladies and germs:

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPsu-zL2Ah0[/video]

Excellent thanks

 

[bajana]

Please tell us something incredibly stupid and self-serving Federer has said, Carol. And don't worry, we can wait as I'm sure you won't find much, if anything.

He has complained about the slow courts, he did complain about the 'darkness' in the court after to lose Wimbledon final 2008, about his back, about many things that I really don't care (I'm sure he is not self-serving :laydownlaughing) and I don't remember but if you ask Becker he probably would tell you more about it :snicker

Well at least we now know what to give you for Christmas: a carton of straws (for you to clutch at) :laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing

 

[Front242]

He has complained about the slow courts, he did complain about the 'darkness' in the court after to lose Wimbledon final 2008, about his back, about many things that I really don't care (I'm sure he is not self-serving :laydownlaughing) and I don't remember but if you ask Becker he probably would tell you more about it :snicker

I never said anything about him complaining. Everyone complains. What I said was I knew you couldn't provide any examples of "incredibly stupid and self-serving" comments from him which you have duly proven to the whole forum with that reply above. If you seriously think any of the above are examples of him being incredibly stupid and self-serving, I pity your comprehension.

Yep, I seriously think any of above are examples of him being incredible stupid and self-serving and talking about 'I pity your comprehension' look at you in the mirror complaining all the time about Nadal

Notice why no one "liked" your post? 'cos it was bs. They stopped matches this year and others at Wimbledon around 1.5 hours before that 2008 final ended. The match ended at 9:15 and it was way too dark to play and the fact that you think that's "incredibly stupid and self-serving" for Federer to state the truth that it should not have continued in darkness is beyond idiotic. It looks nothing like what you see on tv. Many people I know were at that match and they couldn't see the ball at all and the players were just silhouettes in the darkness.

Please tell me how a back injury is called a "complaint" and is "incredibly stupid and self-serving" ? Re-read what you type before posting next time 'cos it makes no sense whatsoever. The guy pulls out of the WTF 'cos of a bad back and somehow that's "incredibly stupid and self-serving" ? Yeah, good one. Your blind bias of Nadal is rotting away at your logic and comprehension.

And finally, the "complaining about slow courts" is something many players have voiced. This is a completely justified "complaint" as almost 90% of the courts out there are now the same speed and this is not proper tennis anymore, where in the past we saw specialists on certain surfaces. Now there's almost no diversity out there and all we see is marathon rallies that reward athleticism more than shot making and skillful, aggressive game plans. But feel free to call that "incredibly stupid and self-serving" also. :cover