2014 Roland Garros Final: Nadal vs. Djokovic

[Moxie]

Probably didn't hydrate properly is my guess. He drank a ton after the match before his post match interview.

I'm not sure how you know that Novak "drank a ton" after the match, but I'd be stunned if an athlete of his calibre, and with such a big team would be poorly-hydrated before a match.

I'm trying to imagine your derision if that were Nadal's excuse, after a match. "Fatigue," I mean. You surely wouldn't be reaching to excuse it by saying he might have been "under-hydrated." I have to say I'm a little bit surprised by the hypocritical silence over Novak's claim that he felt "fatigued," in the 3rd set today. Everything Nadal says is an "excuse," or "whining," to plenty of people. Loud outrage and derision over Murray's fatigued performance today, Ferrer not feeling he had enough, and Monfils…(well, OK on Monfils.) But on Djokovic's claim of "fatigue," after having only dropped 2 sets the whole tournament, deafening silence, or, like you, Front, excuse-making.

I must say, I see a double-standard from some people.

 

[Front242]

^ 'cos I was watching it and he drank a lot of water afterwards. No idea why the tangent about double standards, just an observation that he did in fact drink a lot of water after the match before being interviewed.

 

[Moxie]

Should be Djokovic this time IMO. The only question for me is how he will deal with the nerves if he gets close to the finish line or even if it is just tight throughout. When Nole plays clean Rafa is at his mercy regardless of the surface.

i agree patrick mcenroe was saying if rafa plays A game on clay he wins and i was like not if nole plays his A game. noles A game will beat rafa anytime anywhere

Actually, I don't think you can say that, mostly as you won't see it for the length of most matches. You did, for example, this year in Miami, and Novak won. One of the last times it was all Rafa was in MC 2012. But more often there are ebbs and flows in their matches, especially over 5 sets. In best of 5 matches, Nadal leads the H2H 8-3. And there is a reason for that.

 

[Front242]

^ Of course there is, Novak never drinks enough water in best of 5. We all know that

 

[Moxie]

^ 'cos I was watching it and he drank a lot of water afterwards. No idea why the tangent about double standards, just an observation that he did in fact drink a lot of water after the match before being interviewed.

They all drink a lot of water in their interviews. "Tangent about double standards?" Front…you would never have been giving Nadal the same pass if you thought he was making an excuse for dropping a set over "fatigue," or whatever excuse. If you're going to play naive on me I will laugh you off of this thread, sweetheart. :lolz: :hug

 

[Front242]

^ 'cos I was watching it and he drank a lot of water afterwards. No idea why the tangent about double standards, just an observation that he did in fact drink a lot of water after the match before being interviewed.

They all drink a lot of water in their interviews. "Tangent about double standards?" Front…you would never have been giving Nadal the same pass if you thought he was making an excuse for dropping a set over "fatigue," or whatever excuse. If you're going to play naive on me I will laugh you off of this thread, sweetheart. :lolz: :hug

I never gave it as any excuse. I was merely trying to determine wtf happened to him out there 'cos he looked dizzy and out of it end of set 4. Gulbis really screwed up with the 2 BH errors at 3-3 to give away the break or he had a high chance of winning set 4 and the way Djokovic looked at the end Gulbis may well have had a good chance of winning a 5th set. They both looked far from 100% at the end of set 4 though. Only Novak himself knows why he went all wobbly and tired looking but he likely won't tell anyone the real answer. Remember he played a match before where his balance went all wonky on a few points so it could be anything. As Roddick said before, Sars, Asian bird flu, etc

 

[Moxie]

^ 'cos I was watching it and he drank a lot of water afterwards. No idea why the tangent about double standards, just an observation that he did in fact drink a lot of water after the match before being interviewed.

They all drink a lot of water in their interviews. "Tangent about double standards?" Front…you would never have been giving Nadal the same pass if you thought he was making an excuse for dropping a set over "fatigue," or whatever excuse. If you're going to play naive on me I will laugh you off of this thread, sweetheart. :lolz: :hug

I never gave it as any excuse. I was merely trying to determine wtf happened to him out there 'cos he looked dizzy and out of it end of set 4. Gulbis really screwed up with the 2 BH errors at 3-3 to give away the break or he had a high chance of winning set 4 and the way Djokovic looked at the end Gulbis may well have had a good chance of winning a 5th set. They both looked far from 100% at the end of set 4 though. Only Novak himself knows why he went all wobbly and tired looking but he likely won't tell anyone the real answer. Remember he played a match before where his balance went all wonky on a few points so it could be anything. As Roddick said before, Sars, Asian bird flu, etc

Understood, but remind me the last time that you gave Rafa the same space and understanding. They're human beings and are susceptible to a bad day, injury/illness. I get that. You?

 

[DarthFed]

Should be Djokovic this time IMO. The only question for me is how he will deal with the nerves if he gets close to the finish line or even if it is just tight throughout. When Nole plays clean Rafa is at his mercy regardless of the surface.

i agree patrick mcenroe was saying if rafa plays A game on clay he wins and i was like not if nole plays his A game. noles A game will beat rafa anytime anywhere

Actually, I don't think you can say that, mostly as you won't see it for the length of most matches. You did, for example, this year in Miami, and Novak won. One of the last times it was all Rafa was in MC 2012. But more often there are ebbs and flows in their matches, especially over 5 sets. In best of 5 matches, Nadal leads the H2H 8-3. And there is a reason for that.

A few reasons for that, chief among them is that Novak was a much lesser player pre 2011. It is 3-3 since then.

 

[Front242]

^ 'cos I was watching it and he drank a lot of water afterwards. No idea why the tangent about double standards, just an observation that he did in fact drink a lot of water after the match before being interviewed.

They all drink a lot of water in their interviews. "Tangent about double standards?" Front…you would never have been giving Nadal the same pass if you thought he was making an excuse for dropping a set over "fatigue," or whatever excuse. If you're going to play naive on me I will laugh you off of this thread, sweetheart. :lolz: :hug

I never gave it as any excuse. I was merely trying to determine wtf happened to him out there 'cos he looked dizzy and out of it end of set 4. Gulbis really screwed up with the 2 BH errors at 3-3 to give away the break or he had a high chance of winning set 4 and the way Djokovic looked at the end Gulbis may well have had a good chance of winning a 5th set. They both looked far from 100% at the end of set 4 though. Only Novak himself knows why he went all wobbly and tired looking but he likely won't tell anyone the real answer. Remember he played a match before where his balance went all wonky on a few points so it could be anything. As Roddick said before, Sars, Asian bird flu, etc

Understood, but remind me the last time that you gave Rafa the same space and understanding. They're human beings and are susceptible to a bad day, injury/illness. I get that. You?

Like when Nadal was also tired in the US Open 2011 match after exerting a ton of energy to win set 3? Same space and understanding seeing as all we're talking about here (well me anyway) is trying to determine why exactly he looked tired against Gulbis.

 

[britbox]

Not sure why Nole mentioning he had a little fatigue is a big deal - making excuses for a match he won? Players can get dehydrated. Even Rafa... don't forget the time when he collapsed off his chair with cramp at a post-match press conference looking like he'd been mowed down with an Uzi 9mm.

 

[Moxie]

^I don't remember anyone thinking that Nadal was tired in the USO v. Djokovic. It was Djokovic that had the bad back. Nadal didn't capitalize. Who said he was tired? Djokovic was in Nadal's head at that point, and I think everyone agrees about that.

Just admit it…you give more leeway to Djokovic than you do to Nadal. It's ok…I know where your loyalties lie. But remember this…the next time you call out Nadal as moaning about something, think of this, and how much effort you spent at excusing it. That's all I'm saying. For heaven's sake, it's not that bad, having a sink for one set, but you and plenty others would have put Nadal on the chopping block for even hinting that he wasn't 100%, even for a set. I'm pretty sure you're fair enough to admit that.

 

[Front242]

^ Wasn't tired? That why neither of them stood up for about 20 mins before the presentation?! They were both wrecked after that match.

 

[Moxie]

Not sure why Nole mentioning he had a little fatigue is a big deal - making excuses for a match he won? Players can get dehydrated. Even Rafa... don't forget the time when he collapsed off his chair with cramp at a post-match press conference looking like he'd been mowed down with an Uzi 9mm.

The problem is the double standard as to how it's dealt with. Note that even you remember Rafa cramping in a presser. Much fun was made of it. There is no evidence that Novak was dehydrated, only that he lost his head and a set. He said he was fatigued. Whatever is the truth, I don't mind, but my point is that Nadal is always held up as an excuse maker, yet everyone gives Djokovic a total pass on claiming fatigue, in a tournament when he's barely broken a sweat. Nadal can cramp visibly in a presser, and people find that funny. Yet Djokovic claims "fatigue" in a set that he pretty much blew mentally, and everyone gives him a pass, wondering how he might have been dehydrated. OK. But does that actually seem fair treatment of players and their discomforts, to you?

 

[Moxie]

^ Wasn't tired? That why neither of them stood up for about 20 mins before the presentation?! They were both wrecked after that match.

That was the AO final in 2012. You were talking about the USO. And in the AO Nadal was much more valiant against Djokovic…it's when he started to figure him out, in Novak's new iteration.

 

[britbox]

Not sure why Nole mentioning he had a little fatigue is a big deal - making excuses for a match he won? Players can get dehydrated. Even Rafa... don't forget the time when he collapsed off his chair with cramp at a post-match press conference looking like he'd been mowed down with an Uzi 9mm.

The problem is the double standard as to how it's dealt with. Note that even you remember Rafa cramping in a presser. Much fun was made of it. There is no evidence that Novak was dehydrated, only that he lost his head and a set. He said he was fatigued. Whatever is the truth, I don't mind, but my point is that Nadal is always held up as an excuse maker, yet everyone gives Djokovic a total pass on claiming fatigue, in a tournament when he's barely broken a sweat. Nadal can cramp visibly in a presser, and people find that funny. Yet Djokovic claims "fatigue" in a set that he pretty much blew mentally, and everyone gives him a pass, wondering how he might have been dehydrated. OK. But does that actually seem fair treatment of players and their discomforts, to you?

I'm kind of wondering why you are making such a huge deal out of Novak saying he felt fatigued during a match and Front observing that he drank water after the match with a conclusion that he may been dehydrated.

 

[Moxie]

Not sure why Nole mentioning he had a little fatigue is a big deal - making excuses for a match he won? Players can get dehydrated. Even Rafa... don't forget the time when he collapsed off his chair with cramp at a post-match press conference looking like he'd been mowed down with an Uzi 9mm.

The problem is the double standard as to how it's dealt with. Note that even you remember Rafa cramping in a presser. Much fun was made of it. There is no evidence that Novak was dehydrated, only that he lost his head and a set. He said he was fatigued. Whatever is the truth, I don't mind, but my point is that Nadal is always held up as an excuse maker, yet everyone gives Djokovic a total pass on claiming fatigue, in a tournament when he's barely broken a sweat. Nadal can cramp visibly in a presser, and people find that funny. Yet Djokovic claims "fatigue" in a set that he pretty much blew mentally, and everyone gives him a pass, wondering how he might have been dehydrated. OK. But does that actually seem fair treatment of players and their discomforts, to you?

I'm kind of wondering why you are making such a huge deal out of Novak saying he felt fatigued during a match and Front observing that he drank water after the match with a conclusion that he may been dehydrated.

Because that's not the point, at all. It's a question of where "excuses" are made, and when they are decried. As I've said, I have no problem if Djokovic felt tired or too hot. But there has been a huge hew and cry over players "tanking" sets, over the last couple of days, or not putting out enough effort, and over Nadal making even the slightest excuse, for a long time. And yet, Djokovic plays a bad set and cries "fatigue," when he's had a pretty easy path to the finals, and so, in my opinion is getting a pass on that comment. Not necessarily for what he said, but by the standards (of late) on these boards. Folks have been hugely deriding players for not holding it together mentally. But Novak, poor dear, he must have been dehydrated. I'm just calling for a yellow card on double-standards.

 

[britbox]

Most observers of the match at the time commented that his intensity level had dropped but expected him to regroup and get switched back onto the job. Players often look tired at points during matches and no doubt they often are. That's not "excuse fodder" - and Djokovic won the match anyway. You're comparing apples with oranges IMO...

 

[brokenshoelace]

^I don't remember anyone thinking that Nadal was tired in the USO v. Djokovic. It was Djokovic that had the bad back. Nadal didn't capitalize. Who said he was tired? Djokovic was in Nadal's head at that point, and I think everyone agrees about that.

Just admit it…you give more leeway to Djokovic than you do to Nadal. It's ok…I know where your loyalties lie. But remember this…the next time you call out Nadal as moaning about something, think of this, and how much effort you spent at excusing it. That's all I'm saying. For heaven's sake, it's not that bad, having a sink for one set, but you and plenty others would have put Nadal on the chopping block for even hinting that he wasn't 100%, even for a set. I'm pretty sure you're fair enough to admit that.

Nadal WAS tired in that final against Djokovic after the third set because he had just made a superhuman effort just to win it. He'd be an alien if he weren't tired (ditto for Djokovic) because they'd just spent hours stretching each other through every inch of the court. Nadal was hitting the ball harder than I've ever seen him in that third set alone. He definitely had very little left. That's not an excuse. It's a testament to Djokovic being a better player back then since that's what it took just to take a set off of him.

And what's the "leeway" anyone is giving Djokovic here? He obviously got tired and admitted it. Making excuse for losing a set? I don't think players go that far.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Oh dear, the sensitivity... the irrelevant stats...the drama. Just bring the match on already. It's going to be an annoying 30+ hours around here (and no doubt an even more annoying aftermath).

 

[brokenshoelace]

Not sure why Nole mentioning he had a little fatigue is a big deal - making excuses for a match he won? Players can get dehydrated. Even Rafa... don't forget the time when he collapsed off his chair with cramp at a post-match press conference looking like he'd been mowed down with an Uzi 9mm.

The problem is the double standard as to how it's dealt with. Note that even you remember Rafa cramping in a presser. Much fun was made of it. There is no evidence that Novak was dehydrated, only that he lost his head and a set. He said he was fatigued. Whatever is the truth, I don't mind, but my point is that Nadal is always held up as an excuse maker, yet everyone gives Djokovic a total pass on claiming fatigue, in a tournament when he's barely broken a sweat. Nadal can cramp visibly in a presser, and people find that funny. Yet Djokovic claims "fatigue" in a set that he pretty much blew mentally, and everyone gives him a pass, wondering how he might have been dehydrated. OK. But does that actually seem fair treatment of players and their discomforts, to you?

I'm kind of wondering why you are making such a huge deal out of Novak saying he felt fatigued during a match and Front observing that he drank water after the match with a conclusion that he may been dehydrated.

Because that's not the point, at all. It's a question of where "excuses" are made, and when they are decried. As I've said, I have no problem if Djokovic felt tired or too hot. But there has been a huge hew and cry over players "tanking" sets, over the last couple of days, or not putting out enough effort, and over Nadal making even the slightest excuse, for a long time. And yet, Djokovic plays a bad set and cries "fatigue," when he's had a pretty easy path to the finals, and so, in my opinion is getting a pass on that comment. Not necessarily for what he said, but by the standards (of late) on these boards. Folks have been hugely deriding players for not holding it together mentally. But Novak, poor dear, he must have been dehydrated. I'm just calling for a yellow card on double-standards.

This is one of the biggest "much ado about nothing" I've seen here in a minute.