2014 Davis Cup

[Kieran]

Pete changed coach, regretted it, went back to Annacone and won his final slam. Change isn't always a good thing, especially when we're talking about a relationship like the Nadals, which is obviously closer than other players had with their coaches.

And most especially when we're talking about a coach so obviously talented as uncle T...

 

[the AntiPusher]

Pete changed coach, regretted it, went back to Annacone and won his final slam. Change isn't always a good thing, especially when we're talking about a relationship like the Nadals, which is obviously closer than other players had with their coaches.

And most especially when we're talking about a coach so obviously talented as uncle T...

Reread my post.. I said bring in another voice.. Serena was very close to her coach(Dad) but she brought in a different voice.. Federer has listen to different voices.. As for Pete.. if you recall he had Gully before he later passed away but Paul A was an additional the voice in the camp if I recall it correctly..

 

[Kieran]

Rafa brought in another voice to buff up his serve, in 2010. The video is on YouTube some place. He finally had a serve that suited his size, remember that one? I'm sure they often bring in other opinions, but as coaches go, he has T and the hairy bloke who accompanies him when T is reading philosophy books on his island...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Spain have appointed a female coach, and uncle Toni isn't impressed. I must say, I agree with him...

Who knows.. she may be a better strategic coach than him:nono

A better strategic coach than one of the best strategic coaches of all time? Yeah, not likely.

Seriously, this "Toni is not a great coach" bull$hit was started by angry Nadal fans who couldn't fathom Rafa losing to Djokovic a gazillion times in a row in 2011, and didn't quite know where to place their frustration so they dumped it on Toni, who was apparently responsible for everything from scheduling decisions to Nadal's what they perceived as failed tactics.

Samson and others were calling for Toni's head, and begging for Rafa to bring in someone new (I still LOL over the suggestion of Johnny Mac as Rafa's new coach). You'd think that Nadal's wins over Djokovic since would have changed that. Actually, scratch that, you'd think the 14 majors Nadal has won in his career would dispel the ridiculous claim that Toni is not a good coach.

This idea is extremely outdated and was never wrong to begin with. Time to let this one go.

It's absolutely ridiculous and it's

Heck BS.. Rafa fans are allowed to vent.. acourse we are gonna blame Toni when Rafa plays like crap or gets injured during Practice:huh:.. ..he is the architect.. Its always the fault of the Archtect.. (reference the Matrix)

Rafa fans are allowed to vent, but calling for the head of a person who had a huge influence in their man's glory seems absurd to me.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Spain have appointed a female coach, and uncle Toni isn't impressed. I must say, I agree with him...

Who knows.. she may be a better strategic coach than him:nono

A better strategic coach than one of the best strategic coaches of all time? Yeah, not likely.

Seriously, this "Toni is not a great coach" bull$hit was started by angry Nadal fans who couldn't fathom Rafa losing to Djokovic a gazillion times in a row in 2011, and didn't quite know where to place their frustration so they dumped it on Toni, who was apparently responsible for everything from scheduling decisions to Nadal's what they perceived as failed tactics.

Samson and others were calling for Toni's head, and begging for Rafa to bring in someone new (I still LOL over the suggestion of Johnny Mac as Rafa's new coach). You'd think that Nadal's wins over Djokovic since would have changed that. Actually, scratch that, you'd think the 14 majors Nadal has won in his career would dispel the ridiculous claim that Toni is not a good coach.

This idea is extremely outdated and was never wrong to begin with. Time to let this one go.

It's absolutely ridiculous and it's

As for Toni being a good coach.. yes he is for Rafa but What makes Rafa the only player to keep the same damn coach.. Federer changed coaches, Sampras, McEnroe and others.. So for you to be dismissive is not so :laydownlaughing.. Every sport, every athelete .. male or female have changes coaches.. Eg.. look at Serena.. she brought in Patrick and others to help her with the last phase of her career.. However... this is what you do.. BS .. you lay dormant with ole BS such as bringing McEnroe as a different voice because you dont like McEnroe or even Sampras ,,,then you pick so time like this to try to make light of it when the advantage is yours because we will never Know because Rafa will never bring a different voice.. Again.. this is what you do.. Its not so ridiculous but I not going to get into a battle with you are looking for something to bitch about.. not this time dude .. not this time

- Why should Rafa NOT keep the same coach? Just because others have done it? Last I checked Rafa is racking up French Opens like it's candy. Just last year, he dominated the hard courts. He's also reached the slam final of every hard court major he's participated in since the 2011 Australian Open. I mean, we can bring up Wimbledon but A) Toni was his coach when he reached the final 5 times in as many appearances and B) It sounds absurd to change a coach because of a tournament that occupies 2 weeks in the entire calendar.

- As far as Mac goes, what's his coaching pedigree again? Have you listened to him commentating? Because if his coaching advice resembles that in any way, I'll go ahead and pass. I don't like Mac? News to me. He was a genius as a player. He's an awful commentator, and has no meaningful experience as a coach.

- What does Sampras have to do with any of this?

- I pick a time like this to make light of this? Uh, weren't you here in 2011 when I was ridiculing the idea even back then? I'm pretty sure you were, because you made the same needlessly sensitive post then.

- It's ridiculous to get rid of a coach under whom you've won 14 slams and a laundry list of other accolades, especially when said coach has known you all your life and took you up from scratch. Yes, it's ridiculous. To debate that lacks any logic. They've been winning at least one major for 10 (?) consecutive seasons. Why on earth would Nadal go away from this obviously winning alliance? You keep bringing up the "different voice" thing, but never actually mention what this "different voice" is needed for.

Has it occurred to you how it's quite obvious that Toni is not just a coach for Rafael, and the dynamics of their relationship goes way beyond that, and that it's played a huge part in Nadal's success? Just read his book.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Also, does anyone really think that Nadal and his uncle NEVER brought "another voice"? They never sought anyone's advice in 12 years on tour? Just because they don't bring in someone to sit in the players' box doesn't mean they don't expand their horizons.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Spain have appointed a female coach, and uncle Toni isn't impressed. I must say, I agree with him...

Who knows.. she may be a better strategic coach than him:nono

A better strategic coach than one of the best strategic coaches of all time? Yeah, not likely.

Seriously, this "Toni is not a great coach" bull$hit was started by angry Nadal fans who couldn't fathom Rafa losing to Djokovic a gazillion times in a row in 2011, and didn't quite know where to place their frustration so they dumped it on Toni, who was apparently responsible for everything from scheduling decisions to Nadal's what they perceived as failed tactics.

Samson and others were calling for Toni's head, and begging for Rafa to bring in someone new (I still LOL over the suggestion of Johnny Mac as Rafa's new coach). You'd think that Nadal's wins over Djokovic since would have changed that. Actually, scratch that, you'd think the 14 majors Nadal has won in his career would dispel the ridiculous claim that Toni is not a good coach.

This idea is extremely outdated and was never wrong to begin with. Time to let this one go.

It's absolutely ridiculous and it's

As for Toni being a good coach.. yes he is for Rafa but What makes Rafa the only player to keep the same damn coach.. Federer changed coaches, Sampras, McEnroe and others.. So for you to be dismissive is not so :laydownlaughing.. Every sport, every athelete .. male or female have changes coaches.. Eg.. look at Serena.. she brought in Patrick and others to help her with the last phase of her career.. However... this is what you do.. BS .. you lay dormant with ole BS such as bringing McEnroe as a different voice because you dont like McEnroe or even Sampras ,,,then you pick so time like this to try to make light of it when the advantage is yours because we will never Know because Rafa will never bring a different voice.. Again.. this is what you do.. Its not so ridiculous but I not going to get into a battle with you are looking for something to bitch about.. not this time dude .. not this time

- Why should Rafa NOT keep the same coach? Just because others have done it? Last I checked Rafa is racking up French Opens like it's candy. Just last year, he dominated the hard courts. He's also reached the slam final of every hard court major he's participated in since the 2011 Australian Open. I mean, we can bring up Wimbledon but A) Toni was his coach when he reached the final 5 times in as many appearances and B) It sounds absurd to change a coach because of a tournament that occupies 2 weeks in the entire calendar.

- As far as Mac goes, what's his coaching pedigree again? Have you listened to him commentating? Because if his coaching advice resembles that in any way, I'll go ahead and pass. I don't like Mac? News to me. He was a genius as a player. He's an awful commentator, and has no meaningful experience as a coach.

- What does Sampras have to do with any of this?

- I pick a time like this to make light of this? Uh, weren't you here in 2011 when I was ridiculing the idea even back then? I'm pretty sure you were, because you made the same needlessly sensitive post then.

- It's ridiculous to get rid of a coach under whom you've won 14 slams and a laundry list of other accolades, especially when said coach has known you all your life and took you up from scratch. Yes, it's ridiculous. To debate that lacks any logic. They've been winning at least one major for 10 (?) consecutive seasons. Why on earth would Nadal go away from this obviously winning alliance? You keep bringing up the "different voice" thing, but never actually mention what this "different voice" is needed for.

Has it occurred to you how it's quite obvious that Toni is not just a coach for Rafael, and the dynamics of their relationship goes way beyond that, and that it's played a huge part in Nadal's success? Just read his book.

I know this isn't going to be well recieved by you, but are you SLOW or what.. How many times do I have to say add "another " voice to the team not get rid of Toni..

As for McEnroe and Sampras.. you have always been bias... Johnny McEnroe at times can be brilliant.. He may just be in the same boat as Tim McCarver was in baseball.. been around for a long time but some folks like your are looking for another voice.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I know this isn't going to be well recieved by you, but are you SLOW or what.. How many times do I have to say add "another " voice to the team not get rid of Toni..

As for McEnroe and Sampras.. you have always been bias... Johnny McEnroe at times can be brilliant.. He may just be in the same boat as Tim McCarver was in baseball.. been around for a long time but some folks like your are looking for another voice.

I know this isn't going to be well received by you, but you're the one who seems to be slow, as anytime we engage in this debate (and that's been often), you always fail to respond to one crucial question: Why does Nadal need "another" voice? What is he missing, and what would said voice add? As in, is he supposed to go around and say: "hey guys, I need a new voice, no? Anyone interested?" Because I'm pretty sure when you need a "new voice," you should have a clear idea as to what you want said voice to whisper in your ears. There should be something specific you want to work on. Care to tell me what might that be? Because according to your initial post, Nadal should bring in another voice because Serena Williams and Roger Federer did it. Uh, sorry, that's not a good reason. It's an especially pressing question considering the vast improvements he's made in virtually every aspect of his game throughout the years, all of which under Toni's supervision.

I have always been biased? Seriously, this is by far the most baffling argument everyone raises around here. Newsflash, we are ALL biased. You don't think you are when it comes to your favorite player? Really? You don't think you're biased against players you don't like? Because Rosol and Soderling say hi.

So, I've always been biased against Sampras how exactly? By not being a big fan of his? If so, guilty. But at what point have I ever diminished his game or his accomplishments? By saying I believe Federer is the GOAT? Well, my criteria hinges on accomplishments, and Fed has more. Simple, really.

For saying Ivo Karlovic's first serve when taken in isolation, is a better serve than Sampras? That's called a fact.

Other than that, I honestly don't recall ever being critical of Pete in any way. If that were the case, I'm sure our buddy Kieran would have pointed it out.

Mac at times can be brilliant? Yeah, no $hit. I just called the guy a genius in my previous post (as a player). When have I ever debated that? The man is seriously one of the most talented to ever touch a racket. As a commentator, he's absolutely awful -- again, a sentiment shared by most around here. As a coach, he's got no pedigree (which is not to say that he would or wouldn't be good) -- again, this is called a fact.

Lighten up. You accuse me of getting riled up when people disagree but it's really you who take these things way too personally.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Fun bit of trivia, maybe our buddy El Dude can verify this as I'm totally going out on a limb here:

I think Toni Nadal is the most accomplished coach of all time. As in, he's "won" the most championships as a coach (though I think his nephew had a thing or two to do with that, but still).

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Spain have appointed a female coach, and uncle Toni isn't impressed. I must say, I agree with him...

Who's she ?

There's that, too...

the world famous..the one and only.

ladies and gentleman, a round of applause for...ummmm.. :huh::snigger

 

[Kieran]

Fun bit of trivia, maybe our buddy El Dude can verify this as I'm totally going out on a limb here:

I think Toni Nadal is the most accomplished coach of all time. As in, he's "won" the most championships as a coach (though I think his nephew had a thing or two to do with that, but still).

Harry Hopman...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Fun bit of trivia, maybe our buddy El Dude can verify this as I'm totally going out on a limb here:

I think Toni Nadal is the most accomplished coach of all time. As in, he's "won" the most championships as a coach (though I think his nephew had a thing or two to do with that, but still).

Harry Hopman...

We'll limit this to the open era to avoid clusterf*cks.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

Rafa brought in another voice to buff up his serve, in 2010. The video is on YouTube some place. He finally had a serve that suited his size, remember that one? I'm sure they often bring in other opinions, but as coaches go, he has T and the hairy bloke who accompanies him when T is reading philosophy books on his island...

I wish I had the match stats with me now (atpworldtour.com doesn't show the speeds in match stats), but I saw them at the time and in the 2010 US Open Final, Nadal's 1st serve average was only 116mph.

I mean that's not slow, but he averaged 120mph throughout that US Open. So the idea that Nadal changed his serve so much, is a bit exaggerated. Nadal averaged over 120mph in the 2011 Wimbledon Final, but for some reason that doesn't get much of a mention.

Also the 2012 Wimbledon 2nd Round vs. Rosol....Nadal hit 19 aces and served big.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Rafa brought in another voice to buff up his serve, in 2010. The video is on YouTube some place. He finally had a serve that suited his size, remember that one? I'm sure they often bring in other opinions, but as coaches go, he has T and the hairy bloke who accompanies him when T is reading philosophy books on his island...

I wish I had the match stats with me now (atpworldtour.com doesn't show the speeds in match stats), but I saw them at the time and in the 2010 US Open Final, Nadal's 1st serve average was only 116mph.

I mean that's not slow, but he averaged 120mph throughout that US Open. So the idea that Nadal changed his serve so much, is a bit exaggerated. Nadal averaged over 120mph in the 2011 Wimbledon Final, but for some reason that doesn't get much of a mention.

Also the 2012 Wimbledon 2nd Round vs. Rosol....Nadal hit 19 aces and served big.

The idea is not exaggerated because Nadal himself talked about it. He explicitly mentioned changing his grip on the serve (which alone is considered a fairly significant change). He was serving flatter and bigger. The 2 matches you mentioned took place on grass, where Nadal will go for more on his serve, as will all players. And the match against Rosol in question was a 5-setter, so Nadal had more time to hit those aces.

 

[Kieran]

I removed my reply to the Toni Nadal thread, where the discussion about uncle Toni continues...

 

[Kieran]

Rafa has also come out against the appointment of Gala Leon as Spanish Davis Cup captain. I must admit, this appointment baffles me...

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yeah,, I would have to agree with Rafa, the appointment is a bit odd.. too many ex great Spanish male candidates whom has been waiting in line, especially Carlos Moya(Rafa's pal)

 

[Federberg]

^ I do hope they're not just appointing a woman to make a point. Who knows she might be good at it, but it's very strange that the greatest player Spain has ever had wasn't even consulted. It's not like a Davis Cup captain is a boss. You need buy in from the players! I would be amazed if that would happen in Britain, Serbia or Switzerland

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Yeah,, I would have to agree with Rafa, the appointment is a bit odd.. too many ex great Spanish male candidates whom has been waiting in line, especially Carlos Moya(Rafa's pal)

In which bubble are you in? This woman was appointed to replace Moya who quit the job.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Actually, unlike in Andy Murray's case I agree with the decision of a female captain here.
Note that there is a distinction between coach and captain. She is not actually going to
be coaching any of the players involved. Her primary responsibility will be recruiting players
to actually play in DC events. Her other responsibilities would be in deciding the surface
and town for home ties and also which combination of players to field in case of plenty
(a nice problem to have).