2014 Aussie Open SF: Fedal Volume 33

[Goldenboy]

Is there any way to view the chat thread?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Is there any way to view the chat thread?

I think tented will merge it with the thread later. But anyway, I'll sum it up for you, just in case:

tented was objective.
I analyzed a few points and focused on minor insignificant patterns for no reason.
Moxie cheered Nadal
Kskate2 complained about Fowler.
DarthFed and Front wrote Federer's obituary.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

...and I bitched about the Federer forehand as much as I could. I am still talking about it actually.

 

[Front242]

Yeah the forehand today was atrocious. Some ugly errors and after the last 2 matches he's played to say it's disappointing is just plain understated. Disgusting viewing for Fed fans unfortunately.

Edit: Don't want to come across as ungracious though as Rafa played by far his best match and said so himself. It's just depressing for Fed fans that Roger can play so well before this match and then play like he did today. It's been like this though in most of their matches, save for a few exceptions where Roger didn't play like a complete tool. Imo Rafa needed this match to get his form back. Sad that he has to beat Federer playing crap to get back in form but that's just how it goes.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Per Steve Tignor re: Federer's complaints to the umpire:

Apparently it was neither about coaching nor about time in between points. According to Tignor's twitter account:

"Federer says he complained about Rafa's grunts going 'in phases.' Had no impact on the match, he said."

There you have it.

 

[huntingyou]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

 

[Front242]

Per Steve Tignor re: Federer's complaints to the umpire:

Apparently it was neither about coaching nor about time in between points. According to Tignor's twitter account:

"Federer says he complained about Rafa's grunts going 'in phases.' Had no impact on the match, he said."

There you have it.

He was a bit loud but I'm sure Fed's used to it at this stage as we all are. He doesn't annoy me like the WTA players such as Sharapova and Azarenka anyway and in ATP, Ferrer and Granollers remain the worst grunters.

 

[Front242]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

Actually it can be both Fed being a clown and Nadal playing well, which it clearly was. If you're counting me as a usual suspect I already said Nadal played his best match of the tournament but clearly Fed didn't so we're not all so blind as you let on.

 

[huntingyou]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

Actually it can be both Fed being a clown and Nadal playing well, which it clearly was. If you're counting me as a usual suspect I already said Nadal played his best match of the tournament but clearly Fed didn't so we're not all so blind as you let on.

If Fed plays as a clown, then you get 2008 FO final score at the level Rafa was playing.

whatever, even after the amzing passing shot Rafa hit when the ball was behind...you still complain about Roger despite doing everything right in that point.

it is what it is

 

[calitennis127]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

I actually agree with this for the most part. To say that Federer was just awful today (as DarthFed has been saying) really misses the point. Federer did not play that poorly (by his usual standards); Nadal simply owned him in the second and third sets.

Huntingyou overrates how good Nadal is in certain respects, but the fact is he is just a better rally player than Federer. There is no longer any sugarcoating it. He has some substantial offensive weapons, and he is a much more consistent ball-striker. People have a problem with me saying this but it's significant: his stamina is a huge factor because he can play his best ball much longer than pretty much everyone (only Djokovic is in his league in that respect).

 

[huntingyou]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

I actually agree with this for the most part. To say that Federer was just awful today (as DarthFed has been saying) really misses the point. Federer did not play that poorly (by his usual standards); Nadal simply owned him in the second and third sets.

Huntingyou overrates how good Nadal is in certain respects, but the fact is he is just a better rally player than Federer. There is no longer any sugarcoating it. He has some substantial offensive weapons, and he is a much more consistent ball-striker. People have a problem with me saying this but it's significant: his stamina is a huge factor because he can play his best ball much longer than pretty much everyone (only Djokovic is in his league in that respect).

I'll bite

how stamina impacted this match...especially in the second set?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Per Steve Tignor re: Federer's complaints to the umpire:

Apparently it was neither about coaching nor about time in between points. According to Tignor's twitter account:

"Federer says he complained about Rafa's grunts going 'in phases.' Had no impact on the match, he said."

There you have it.

He was a bit loud but I'm sure Fed's used to it at this stage as we all are. He doesn't annoy me like the WTA players such as Sharapova and Azarenka anyway and in ATP, Ferrer and Granollers remain the worst grunters.

Honestly, maybe I'm just used to Nadal by now, but his grunting doesn't seem to me like anything out of the ordinary, especially not compared to earlier in his career when was much louder.

Ferrer, and even Djokovic, can be far more irritating with grunting "in phases" especially since their tone fluctuates, and sometimes drags a bit.

 

[calitennis127]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

Actually it can be both Fed being a clown and Nadal playing well, which it clearly was. If you're counting me as a usual suspect I already said Nadal played his best match of the tournament but clearly Fed didn't so we're not all so blind as you let on.

Fed was not being a "clown"; you just have to accept his limitations for what they are and acknowledge that Nadal is a horrible match-up for him.

It would be possible for Federer to beat Nadal on hards still, but it would require a major overhaul in his strategy that probably just isn't going to happen. Federer is a better shotmaker; Nadal is a better rally player. The percentages just don't add up for Federer.

 

[Front242]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

Actually it can be both Fed being a clown and Nadal playing well, which it clearly was. If you're counting me as a usual suspect I already said Nadal played his best match of the tournament but clearly Fed didn't so we're not all so blind as you let on.

If Fed plays as a clown, then you get 2008 FO final score at the level Rafa was playing.

whatever, even after the amzing passing shot Rafa hit when the ball was behind...you still complain about Roger despite doing everything right in that point.

it is what it is

Thing is Roger makes a lot of those passing shots look amazing just by his very poor approaches. Roddick was the same. Nadal's passing shots clearly are amazing but some of them shouldn't even have been on the cards if Roger's court awareness was sharper and he didn't blindly run to the net. The French Open 2008 was an anomaly scorewise. He's never lost that badly since then but that's not to say this was a much better performance as it wasn't. With so much on the line today his effort was clearly well below par and I've already said Nadal played very well. You'd swear Roger played well the way you're going on about us calling him a clown. He clearly did not play well.

 

[huntingyou]

does nadal passing shots qualify as shotmaking? just wondering

 

[DarthFed]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

Actually it can be both Fed being a clown and Nadal playing well, which it clearly was. If you're counting me as a usual suspect I already said Nadal played his best match of the tournament but clearly Fed didn't so we're not all so blind as you let on.

If Fed plays as a clown, then you get 2008 FO final score at the level Rafa was playing.

whatever, even after the amzing passing shot Rafa hit when the ball was behind...you still complain about Roger despite doing everything right in that point.

it is what it is

Everything right except missing an easy volley which was a common occurrence the last 2 sets.

 

[calitennis127]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

I actually agree with this for the most part. To say that Federer was just awful today (as DarthFed has been saying) really misses the point. Federer did not play that poorly (by his usual standards); Nadal simply owned him in the second and third sets.

Huntingyou overrates how good Nadal is in certain respects, but the fact is he is just a better rally player than Federer. There is no longer any sugarcoating it. He has some substantial offensive weapons, and he is a much more consistent ball-striker. People have a problem with me saying this but it's significant: his stamina is a huge factor because he can play his best ball much longer than pretty much everyone (only Djokovic is in his league in that respect).

I'll bite

how stamina impacted this match...especially in the second set?

Nadal was able to keep playing at his highest physical level (he was actually just getting warmed up) at the start of the second set.

Federer had busted his tail in the first set - played relatively sharp, tracked everything down, moved very very well. He simply could not keep up that same physical intensity through sets 2 and 3, especially after the emotional disappointment of losing the first set.

Nadal is a stamina machine. He can play near his peak level much higher than pretty much anyone else can play near theirs. This is clear.

 

[huntingyou]

Thing is Roger makes a lot of those passing shots look amazing just by his very poor approaches. Roddick was the same. Nadal's passing shots clearly are amazing but some of them shouldn't even have been on the cards if Roger's court awareness was sharper and he didn't blindly run to the net. The French Open 2008 was an anomaly scorewise. He's never lost that badly since then but that's not to say this was a much better performance as it wasn't. With so much on the line today his effort was clearly well below par and I've already said Nadal played very well. You'd swear Roger played well the way you're going on about us calling him a clown. He clearly did not play well.

Can you please tell me what Roger did wrong in the point where Rafa flicked a pass behind him? This was btw in the game that Rafa broke Roger for the first time.......it was basically the match right there.

 

[calitennis127]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

Actually it can be both Fed being a clown and Nadal playing well, which it clearly was. If you're counting me as a usual suspect I already said Nadal played his best match of the tournament but clearly Fed didn't so we're not all so blind as you let on.

If Fed plays as a clown, then you get 2008 FO final score at the level Rafa was playing.

whatever, even after the amzing passing shot Rafa hit when the ball was behind...you still complain about Roger despite doing everything right in that point.

it is what it is

Thing is Roger makes a lot of those passing shots look amazing just by his very poor approaches. Roddick was the same. Nadal's passing shots clearly are amazing but some of them shouldn't even have been on the cards if Roger's court awareness was sharper and he didn't blindly run to the net. The French Open 2008 was an anomaly scorewise. He's never lost that badly since then but that's not to say this was a much better performance as it wasn't. With so much on the line today his effort was clearly well below par and I've already said Nadal played very well. You'd swear Roger played well the way you're going on about us calling him a clown. He clearly did not play well.

What about Nadal's passing shot at deuce in the last game of the match off of Federer's excellent volley?

Was that Federer playing "horrible"?

 

[Front242]

some Roger fans watch the Rafa-Roger encounter with white paper on 50% of their TV screen. That's the only to way you can explain their bizarre take on their matches.

Rafa took his level in the second set to a place Roger can't reach in this match-up. The match it's virtually on Rafa's racket when he is hitting his backhand with so much authority and defending so well when needed.

This wasn't "clown" Roger hitting "awful" forehands and serves...this was vintage Rafa doing what he does. He has been the SUPERIOR player since 2008 and the gap has only widen.

The usual suspects will never say Rafa was amazing, it's always Roger's mental midgetry when in reality it's Nadal's racket the one that's doing the talking. 8-2 H2H outdoor HC, he beat Roger in 2004 and 2006 with a much inferior game.......I wonder what makes them think the way they do.

Finally, Rafa's depth on his shots including the ROS was outstanding; Novak like in the way it was landing just inches inside the baseline. Roger losing serve once in the first two sets was amazing for him given how well Nadal was striking the ball.

Actually it can be both Fed being a clown and Nadal playing well, which it clearly was. If you're counting me as a usual suspect I already said Nadal played his best match of the tournament but clearly Fed didn't so we're not all so blind as you let on.

Fed was not being a "clown"; you just have to accept his limitations for what they are and acknowledge that Nadal is a horrible match-up for him.

It would be possible for Federer to beat Nadal on hards still, but it would require a major overhaul in his strategy that probably just isn't going to happen. Federer is a better shotmaker; Nadal is a better rally player. The percentages just don't add up for Federer.

I fully acknowledge the terrible match-up and clearly as Fed is a touch slower last few years, that's clearly why he's less content to rally and wants to finish points earlier. Agree on everything there. When he's off balance or trying to retrieve a ball at a sharp angle those are more forced errors but what we Fed fans are correctly establishing as "clown" was his inability to hit FHs that were complete sitting ducks. I'm not talking about running FHS DTL here. So many easy put aways were netted routinely. That's where the utter disappointment comes in and yes, that is him playing like a clown when we all know he can play much better and did so in his last two matches. He wouldn't miss those routine shots against anyone else and these easy misses were not loopy shots to his BH either, some were average shots he clearly should be able to slap for winners but instead find the net or go miles wide.