2014 Aussie Open SF: Fedal Volume 33

[huntingyou]

Top 10 All time BP Converted:


1.Guillermo Coria

2.Rafael Nadal

3.Sergi Bruguera

4.Thomas Muster

5.Filippo Volandri

6.Felix Mantilla

7.Marcos Ondruska

8.Novak Djokovic

9.David Ferrer

10.David Nalbandian

 

[brokenshoelace]

Actually, considering he is the best player out there at the moment he should be high on that list.

This comment makes no sense to me. Yeah, the best players in the world will lead stats normally. That doesn't make it any less impressive when they do.

 

[Denis]

Actually, considering he is the best player out there at the moment he should be high on that list.

This comment makes no sense to me. Yeah, the best players in the world will lead stats normally. That doesn't make it any less impressive when they do.

What I mean to say is that a break point is just another point. Nadal is the number one player in the world, which implies that he is more likely to win a point. Hence, I am not surprised that he is high on that list.

I think it is interesting to view who over- and underachieves compared to their ranking on that list. Big servers will overachieve, because they can initiate the point. But that Federer is 12 is telling. I would be curious about the rest of the list.

 

[Denis]

Top 10 All time BP Converted:


1.Guillermo Coria

2.Rafael Nadal

3.Sergi Bruguera

4.Thomas Muster

5.Filippo Volandri

6.Felix Mantilla

7.Marcos Ondruska

8.Novak Djokovic

9.David Ferrer

10.David Nalbandian

Question: is this percentage-wise? the ratio of conversion?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Top 10 all time list saving BP (look who is number 6):

1. Ivo Karlovic

2.John Isner

3.Pete Sampras

4.Andy Roddick

5.Wayne Arthurs

6.Roger Federer

7.Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

8.Rafael Nadal

9.Greg Rusedski

10.Goran Ivanisevic

Thank you for providing this list.

@Denisovic here's what I meant:

Ivo Karlovic: Probably the most unreturnable serve in history.
John Isner: Ditto.
Pete Sampras: The greatest overall server in history.
Andy Roddick: One of the all time greatest serves.
Wayne Arthurs: Was often lauded for having the best serve in the world when he played.
Roger Federer: Terrific serve, best forehand in history to back it up.
Jo Wilfried Tsonga: Monster serve.
Greg Rusedski: Monster serve.
Goran Ivanisevic: Monster LEFTY serve (which is huge because a lot of the break points occur at 30-40 or AD, and take place on the ad court. Goran had one of the nastiest lefty sliders out wide).

Which leaves us with...Rafael Nadal? One of those names is not like the others when it comes to serving. And that's precisely why Nadal's stats are so impressive in that regard. Unlike these guys, he doesn't have a serve as big and as reliable. So he's putting extra pressure on himself since many of these crucial points are won with rallies. Best player in the world or not, that's mighty impressive, especially when you consider how pedestrian his serve was from 03-07.

The fact that he's a lefty helps, of course, since despite not having Goran's serve, he does have the same luxury on the ad court, but that doesn't make this stat any less impressive.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Actually, considering he is the best player out there at the moment he should be high on that list.

This comment makes no sense to me. Yeah, the best players in the world will lead stats normally. That doesn't make it any less impressive when they do.

What I mean to say is that a break point is just another point. Nadal is the number one player in the world, which implies that he is more likely to win a point. Hence, I am not surprised that he is high on that list.

Technically, it is just another point. But we know that in reality, that's far from the case. There are a lot of nerves that come into play on key points, especially when you can't save it with your serve. It puts that extra bit of pressure on you to outplay your opponent.

To be clear, for the past couple of years, Nadal saves his fair share of break points with cheap points won on serve, no doubt. But his serve is still not as reliable as some of these other guys on the list.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Top 10 All time BP Converted:


1.Guillermo Coria

2.Rafael Nadal

3.Sergi Bruguera

4.Thomas Muster

5.Filippo Volandri

6.Felix Mantilla

7.Marcos Ondruska

8.Novak Djokovic

9.David Ferrer

10.David Nalbandian

Question: is this percentage-wise? the ratio of conversion?

Of all the BP's you get, how many do you covert...

It wouldn't make a difference if it's percentage or ratio.

 

[Denis]

I'm just not impressed or surprised. The lefty serve combined with a great player explains it. It doesn't show any additional clutch IMO. He should be up there.

I would be interested in the full list to see some surprise names.

 

[Denis]

Top 10 All time BP Converted:


1.Guillermo Coria

2.Rafael Nadal

3.Sergi Bruguera

4.Thomas Muster

5.Filippo Volandri

6.Felix Mantilla

7.Marcos Ondruska

8.Novak Djokovic

9.David Ferrer

10.David Nalbandian

Question: is this percentage-wise? the ratio of conversion?

Of all the BP's you get, how many do you covert...

It wouldn't make a difference if it's percentage or ratio.

ok thanks. Lots of claycourters on that list, which makes sense since the serve is less of a weapon on that surface.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I'm just not impressed or surprised. The lefty serve combined with a great player explains it. It doesn't show any additional clutch IMO. He should be up there.

Well then, since he's a great player, if he wins the AO it won't be impressive since it won't be surprising. He's the best in the world after all. Nobody was surprised to see Nadal win 8 FO's. We knew he was that good on clay, so what's so surprising about it?

I'm not equating the accomplishments to BP rate, but I'm highlighting a point: Just because you're great doesn't mean you're perfect. Nadal has limitations to his game, one of which being the serve. The fact that he overcomes that is impressive.

Novak Djokovic is a phenomenal player and an all time great. But if you show me a stat that he says he has the highest percentage of successful net rushes I'd be impressed, because that's typically not his forte.

 

[Denis]

I'm just not impressed or surprised. The lefty serve combined with a great player explains it. It doesn't show any additional clutch IMO. He should be up there.

Well then, since he's a great player, if he wins the AO it won't be impressive since it won't be surprising. He's the best in the world after all. Nobody was surprised to see Nadal win 8 FO's. We knew he was that good on clay, so what's so surprising about it?

I'm not equating the accomplishments to BP rate, but I'm highlighting a point: Just because you're great doesn't mean you're perfect. Nadal has limitations to his game, one of which being the serve. The fact that he overcomes that is impressive.

Novak Djokovic is a phenomenal player and an all time great. But if you show me a stat that he says he has the highest percentage of successful net rushes I'd be impressed, because that's typically not his forte.

Ok maybe not surprised is better than impressed, although I am personally somehow not impressed because I expected it. And I'd be very surprised if Novak had such a statistic of win percentage on net rushes lol. But I wouldn't be impressed, only surprised. Maybe I just don't find statistics impressive, whether they are good or bad.

 

[huntingyou]

Top 10 All time BP Converted:


1.Guillermo Coria

2.Rafael Nadal

3.Sergi Bruguera

4.Thomas Muster

5.Filippo Volandri

6.Felix Mantilla

7.Marcos Ondruska

8.Novak Djokovic

9.David Ferrer

10.David Nalbandian

Question: is this percentage-wise? the ratio of conversion?

Of all the BP's you get, how many do you covert...

It wouldn't make a difference if it's percentage or ratio.

ok thanks. Lots of claycourters on that list, which makes sense since the serve is less of a weapon on that surface.

This has nothing to do with serve but your ability to RETURN.

The reason claycourters dominate the list it's because the stats are skewed due to their proficiency on clay and pathetic performance outside off clay. That's why Rafa, Novak, Ferrer and Nalbandian are/were special returners because they are/were proficient in all surfaces unlike Muster or Mantilla for example.

 

[huntingyou]

I'm just not impressed or surprised. The lefty serve combined with a great player explains it. It doesn't show any additional clutch IMO. He should be up there.

I would be interested in the full list to see some surprise names.

You are ridiculous......Rafa's name STAND OUT in that list like a sore thumb. He is NOT suppossed to there given his relative weak serve. All those players had/have HUGE serves.

but this is sooooo you :snigger

 

[Denis]

I'm just not impressed or surprised. The lefty serve combined with a great player explains it. It doesn't show any additional clutch IMO. He should be up there.

I would be interested in the full list to see some surprise names.

You are ridiculous......Rafa's name STAND OUT in that list like a sore thumb. He is NOT suppossed to there given his relative weak serve. All those players had/have HUGE serves.

but this is sooooo you :snigger

Dude, relax. There is no need to be so obtuse. I just don't find it impressive. But I guess that is difficult for you as a Nadal-fanboy to understand.

 

[Denis]

Top 10 All time BP Converted:


1.Guillermo Coria

2.Rafael Nadal

3.Sergi Bruguera

4.Thomas Muster

5.Filippo Volandri

6.Felix Mantilla

7.Marcos Ondruska

8.Novak Djokovic

9.David Ferrer

10.David Nalbandian

Question: is this percentage-wise? the ratio of conversion?

Of all the BP's you get, how many do you covert...

It wouldn't make a difference if it's percentage or ratio.

ok thanks. Lots of claycourters on that list, which makes sense since the serve is less of a weapon on that surface.

This has nothing to do with serve but your ability to RETURN.

The reason claycourters dominate the list it's because the stats are skewed due to their proficiency on clay and pathetic performance outside off clay. That's why Rafa, Novak, Ferrer and Nalbandian are/were special returners because they are/were proficient in all surfaces unlike Muster or Mantilla for example.

But what exactly are you returning? Lemons? Or serves?

 

[huntingyou]

But what exactly are you returning? Lemons? Or serves?

It's up to you.....whatever floats your boat. Maybe you missed the part of theses stats uses all surfaces and not just clay. That's why I mentioned the players that have succes outside of clay which it's indicative of a great ROS.

 

[Denis]

But what exactly are you returning? Lemons? Or serves?

It's up to you.....whatever floats your boat. Maybe you missed the part of theses stats uses all surfaces and not just clay. That's why I mentioned the players that have succes outside of clay which it's indicative of a great ROS.

I see that you are still hunting for my clue:grin:. That's okay. Let me help you :smooch. Why I referred to the serve and claycourters is that if you want to convert a break point it helps if the serve you are receiving doesn't blast past you but is slowed down by the clay.

 

[Tennis Miller]

What's most surprising to me is that the two players (besides Nole) generally regarded having the best ROS ever, are not at or near the very top of this top 10 list: Connors and Agassi.

Cheers
TM

 

[the AntiPusher]

Top 10 all time list saving BP (look who is number 6):

1. Ivo Karlovic

2.John Isner

3.Pete Sampras

4.Andy Roddick

5.Wayne Arthurs

6.Roger Federer

7.Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

8.Rafael Nadal

9.Greg Rusedski

10.Goran Ivanisevic

Actually, I am surprised rather astonhished that Rafa is number 8 because he is the only one on that list that doesnt possess an bomb of a serve to save BP.

 

[huntingyou]

But what exactly are you returning? Lemons? Or serves?

It's up to you.....whatever floats your boat. Maybe you missed the part of theses stats uses all surfaces and not just clay. That's why I mentioned the players that have succes outside of clay which it's indicative of a great ROS.

I see that you are still hunting for my clue:grin:. That's okay. Let me help you :smooch. Why I referred to the serve and claycourters is that if you want to convert a break point it helps if the serve you are receiving doesn't blast past you but is slowed down by the clay.

Again, the stats take into account ALL surfaces and players like Novak for example; who is on that list excel at ROS. The clay angle applies only to clay court specialist that play very little matches outside of clay. As you know; Novak, Rafa, Ferrer and Nalbandian play the MAJORITY of their matches OUTSIDE of clay.

You are welcome