BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, CA, 2025 - ATP Masters 1000

MargaretMcAleer

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BTW,
A stat I forgot to post in the Alcaraz match, he went to the net almost 30 times in the match, 90% of them when he got the wind in his back, understanding the conditions well at IW
 

Jelenafan

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One thing to consider about younger guys like Fils is that even when it becomes clear that they aren't future super-elites, they could still develop into more garden variety elites. Think of Dominic Thiem, who didn't finish in the top 20 until 2015, which was the year he turned 22. Thiem finished #8 in 2016, #5 in 2017, #8 in 2018, then #4 in 2019, winning his first big title at age 25. He won his only Slam the next year, just before his 27th birthday - and seemed to have arrive as a true elite, finishing #3. Of course things didn't go well after that, but it was due to injury, not decline.

Thiem's rise was a bit more steady than Wawrinka's, but like Stan he didn't reach his best form until after 25. Meaning, it wasn't only Stan that peaked late in the modern era, but Thiem also found his best form at age 26-27. Or we have Andrey Rublev winning his first big title in 2023 at age 25 (Rublev finished #23 in 2019, the year he turned 22 - was on a similar arc as Thiem).

Now Fils finished in the top 20 last year at age 20 - so he's two years ahead of the "Thiem-Rublev timeline." Thiem, at age 22, wouldn't reach his best form for another 4-5 years; we don't know if Rublev has peaked, but it is noteworthy that he didn't win big titles until after he turned 25.

So my point with Fils and other young guys is that even if it becomes clear they won't be in the same category as Sincaraz (and very few players ever are), there's still room for further development. In today's game, players seem to continue developing up until their mid-20s.

Even someone like Felix, who turns 25 later this year, could re-find the #6 form he had in 2022 and maybe even get a bit better, winning a big title or three in second half of this 20s. Or Jack Draper, who I remember someone mentioning way back when he was 15 or 16 years old then never seemed to develop for years, but then popped onto the radar in 2022 when he went from #265 in 2021 to #42 in 2022. He fell to #61 in an injury-plagued 2023, but rose to #14 in 2024, the year he turned 23.

We all like to focus on the greats (or potential greats), and write off players when it becomes clear that they won't become that. So we get excited about Fonzie, and have hopes for Tien and Mensik. But I also really enjoy watching how the next tier or two of players develop, because they often have intriguing arcs. So while I am just as excited as anyone to see how many Slam trophies Jannik, Carlos, and Joao end up with, I'm equally intrigued about who else might win Slam titles and other big titles to "fill in the cracks."

Just a bit of rumination, looking at Fils' loss today and seeming, perhaps inevitable, stumbling towards the "bucket of disappointments." He isn't a disappointment, just settling more into an elite or near elite group of players who aren't as good as the very best, but are still quite good - and interesting in their own right. And best of all, there is a sense that this group will hold a greater share of big titles in the coming years than the comparable group of the Big Four era.
Arthur Ashe once said about his fellow player Tom Okker that at least one week ( or 2?) a year he would become the best player in the World.

Of course that one week never occurred during a Slam, but the point about these “elite” versus genuine superstars is that its exciting to see when at any given moment they will have a magical run where they seem unbeatable, pouncing on everyone. Fils could very well be that type of player, as could others in the top, say, 25.

I dunno, I enjoy that even if it’s not sustainable long run, but it is part of the appeal to me of following this addictive sport.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Players who have reached 3+ straight IW Masters SFs in the 21st centurary
Lleyton Hewitt
Roger Federer
Novak Djokovic
Rafa Nadal
Carlos Alcaraz
Daniil Medvedev

BTW,
Alcaraz reaching the final four at IW four years in a row, he is just the 3rd player ever to reach the SFs or better four or more years in a row, after Nadal and Djokovic.
 
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Jelenafan

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This is a neat fact: this 2025 Indian Wells is the first Masters 1000 to have three semifinalists that were born in the 21th century. Draper (23) , Alcaraz (21) and Rune (21). Fils nearly made it 4 for 4.
 
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Moxie

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Not just today's match w/ the wind. It's the way he plays. Look at some of his numbers. It's a pattern. He needs more margin or rally tolerance to harness all that power.
My point was that I thought he played with more patience in this match, less just thoughtless bashing. I hope he can be that guy, because I found it much more interesting to watch. Anyway, my point about the wind was some of the UFEs today, which weren't merely throwing the ball away. Personally, I think he could be evolving.
 

Kieran

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Fils is just a ball basher. How many points did he donate in this final set?
I like him but he’s got a ways to go, especially when I sat him break a racket after the match. Now, I like bad losers and dislike players who snuggle under the blanket with their opponent at the end, kissing and cuddling before they part, but that racket smash was a tell. He’s got some growing to do, if he’s acting like that after losing against a decent player like Medvedev…
 

lomaha

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What is your point? I am correct what I posted originally? Griekspoor had a H2H 2-0 over Rune both matches were won on clay if you had googled their H2H like I suggested, or you can also go to the ATP website eg on a match where 2 players are involved and they will always give the H2H.Today at IW this was their first match played on a HC which Rune won. Griekspoor still has a H2H lead over Rune which is now 2-1.
Are you kidding me? Look at the picture from your original post again. It says Rune - Griekspoor 2-0?
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Are you kidding me? Look at the picture from your original post again. It says Rune - Griekspoor 2-0?
It says H.Rune (12) vs T.Griekspoor H2H Griekspoor 2-0 which Is Correct. I am over this conversation period Thanks! and I am not kidding!
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Just a few thoughts on Ben Shelton's game, when he was playing Jack Draper in his QF match,
Ben still has a lot to learn, still undisciplined in his game, he can hit up to 150mph serves, yet cannot think his way around a game, he needs more finesse, better shot selection, and mental acuity.Bryan Shelton a competent college coach, but today's pro level circuit is different than when he was competing, maybe bring in a consultant or a new coach, Bens overall game hasnt improved like it should.
 

Moxie

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It says H.Rune (12) vs T.Griekspoor H2H Griekspoor 2-0 which Is Correct. I am over this conversation period Thanks! and I am not kidding!
At the risk of dropping into this, I think I see the confusion that @Iomaha has. I bolded above, with added larger font. That poster seems to have missed that you specify Griekspoor prior to posting the H2H. Because you posted Rune first in terms of who was playing whom, I believe that Iomaha missed the fact that you qualified the H2H separately. That's what I think happened. I'll step cautiously away now. :lol6:
 

MargaretMcAleer

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At the risk of dropping into this, I think I see the confusion that @Iomaha has. I bolded above, with added larger font. That poster seems to have missed that you specify Griekspoor prior to posting the H2H. Because you posted Rune first in terms of who was playing whom, I believe that Iomaha missed the fact that you qualified the H2H separately. That's what I think happened. I'll step cautiously away now. :lol6:
I am over it quite frankly I did that same for the other QFs and noone said a thing, I am correct, I have done the same H2H for both the ATP and WTA, for a long time, it is just 'Nit Picking" I have better things to do with my time.if someone wants to take over at the ATP with H2H in matches in tournaments and post the playing schedules they can from now on, and projected seedings in tournaments, I will just stick to the WTA.
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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The BNP Paribas Renews its Title Sponsorship of the BNP Paribas Open Tennis Tournament.Longest title sponsor in the history of the tournament with a 5 year contract through to 2029!
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Players in IW still practicing per Friday schedule ( I thought they might have gone to Miami to practice by now :)
Ruud, Machac, Fils, KK, Perricard, Rublev, Carballes Baena