BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, CA, 2025 - ATP Masters 1000

Fiero425

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I absolutely detest this version of Chuck. Dude is so concerned w/ putting fabulous points on the board. Boy, you better be worried about putting points on the board, period. Getting blown out 6-1 w/ a boatload of errors, running off 7 straight games and then can't hold his nerve in the decider when it was clear his opponent was getting tight. Boy bye...

It's been an issue w/ me since very early on! Carlos, like Shelton & other HOTDOGS need serious adulation from the crowd! IDK why I hate it! :facepalm:
 

mrzz

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Just saw most of the Draper Alcaraz match. It was an UFE festival... The official stats show both players with more UFEs than winners but they cut them some slack as they probably counted a lot of errors as forced ones. Of course some nice points here and there but in general... Ugh.
 
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Fiero425

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Just saw most of the Draper Alcaraz match. It was an UFE festival... The official stats show both players with more UFEs than winners but they cut them some slack as they probably counted a lot of errors as forced ones. Of course some nice points here and there but in general... Ugh.

Why surprised? The game has progressively become a "ball-bash-fest" w/ little finesse going on! I've called it "mindless aggression" for yrs.! :facepalm:
 
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mrzz

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Why surprised? The game has progressively become a "ball-bash-fest" w/ little finesse going on! I've called it "mindless aggression" for yrs.! :facepalm:
Yeah but even still folks sometimes manage to keep balls off the net and inbounds...
 
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Jelenafan

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I'm shocked nobody's screaming about this Semi-Final! Turned over to the match just in time to see Alcaraz possibly upset yet again! Hard to believe there's a consensus in his possible greatness b/c he's so freakin' talented, but he's pulling a "Nadal" IMO; premature arrogance! He's had some really bad losses! He's still working too hard & 'hot-dogging it!" Those dropshots are so overdone! He still trying to be a human "highlight reel!" Jack has 1 more chance to serve out the match! - Update: DONE! :fearful-face::yawningface::astonished-face::angry-face:
Actually Fiero, Alcaraz has won Slams on grass, clay & HC all by the age of 21, was the youngest player to reach #1 ranking and to end the year # 1.

He’s accomplished more at his age as an all court surface player than Rafa or Federer or Djokovic. Carlos already has 2 Wimbledon titles, whereas it took Rafa 3 more years after his breakthrough winning The FO to win a Slam other than the French. He had to work harder than Alcaraz to win on all surfaces, IMO it didnt come “easier” to Rafa than it has to Alcaraz.

So explain to me how Carlos is pulling a “Nadal”, your perception of Alcaraz having “premature arrogance” may or may not be true, but I cant see the parallels with the young Rafa.
 

Kieran

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It's been an issue w/ me since very early on! Carlos, like Shelton & other HOTDOGS need serious adulation from the crowd! IDK why I hate it! :facepalm:
I hate this modern trend of players putting a finger behind their ear after winning a point, telling the crowd, “I can’t hear you!”

STFU and focus, the crowd aren’t there to participate, they’ll cheer if they want to, but the players doing this - and Carlos is the most prominent - ought to be focusing on their game, winning the next point, and not distracting themselves with showboating. I thought it was cute at first, but when I think of the great players none of them did this.

Rafa would fist pump so furiously that his arm would grow but he didn’t give a feck about the crowd, if they joined in or not. He’s competing to win the match, not win a popularity contest.

That act is cooked - bin it! :facepalm:
 

Kieran

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Regardless of the final outcome, I think Rune is breaking out. It remains to be seen what "peak Rune" will look like, but he seems like a different player.
Is good to see Holger back on a big stage. I always like his punky attitude, hopefully he can win tonight and push on. I like Draper but I don’t see him as having potential to be great - even a lesser great. Holger always looked like he was built for the big matches - up into he started to look like he wasn’t…
 
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lomaha

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I hate this modern trend of players putting a finger behind their ear after winning a point, telling the crowd, “I can’t hear you!”

STFU and focus, the crowd aren’t there to participate, they’ll cheer if they want to, but the players doing this - and Carlos is the most prominent - ought to be focusing on their game, winning the next point, and not distracting themselves with showboating. I thought it was cute at first, but when I think of the great players none of them did this.

Rafa would fist pump so furiously that his arm would grow but he didn’t give a feck about the crowd, if they joined in or not. He’s competing to win the match, not win a popularity contest.

That act is cooked - bin it! :facepalm:
I disagree. They are here to intertain the crowd. They pay their fee's. And I like it. And Djokovic does it often btw.
 
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Kieran

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I disagree. They are here to intertain the crowd. They pay their fee's. And I like it. And Djokovic does it often btw.
Yes, Novak is needy, I forgot about him.

They’re there to compete - the competition is the entertainment. When they stop competing and focusing on winning then they’re robbing the crowd…
 

PhiEaglesfan712

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Actually Fiero, Alcaraz has won Slams on grass, clay & HC all by the age of 21, was the youngest player to reach #1 ranking and to end the year # 1.

He’s accomplished more at his age as an all court surface player than Rafa or Federer or Djokovic. Carlos already has 2 Wimbledon titles, whereas it took Rafa 3 more years after his breakthrough winning The FO to win a Slam other than the French. He had to work harder than Alcaraz to win on all surfaces, IMO it didnt come “easier” to Rafa than it has to Alcaraz.

So explain to me how Carlos is pulling a “Nadal”, your perception of Alcaraz having “premature arrogance” may or may not be true, but I cant see the parallels with the young Rafa.
I saw Rafa play at 19-21, and the eye test tells me that he was a more complete player than Alcaraz. Keep in mind, when Rafa was 19-21, he had to play a peak Federer. If not for that, Rafa has 2 Wimbledon titles and would own the youngest #1 records that Alcaraz has. Plus, Rafa had more career titles at Alcaraz's current age. Rafa winning the Toronto Masters (on hard court) and his only indoor title in 2005 proved that he was great on all surfaces from the beginning.

If my life depended on winning a match, I'm taking Rafa at 19-21 over Alcaraz.
 
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kskate2

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I saw Rafa play at 19-21, and the eye test tells me that he was a more complete player than Alcaraz. Keep in mind, when Rafa was 19-21, he had to play a peak Federer. If not for that, Rafa has 2 Wimbledon titles and would own the youngest #1 records that Alcaraz has. Plus, Rafa had more career titles at Alcaraz's current age. Rafa winning the Toronto Masters (on hard court) and his only indoor title in 2005 proved that he was great on all surfaces from the beginning.

If my life depended on winning a match, I'm taking Rafa at 19-21 over Alcaraz.
There is truth in there that dispels this notion they are the same player because they play under the Spanish flag. Not so much that Nads was a more complete player. Charlie definitely has more shots, but Nads was a more mature player. He was absolutely relentless back then and played every point like it was MP. Charlie is not there yet and may never be if he insist on showboating first.
 
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Kieran

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I don't think they focus less om the play because they celebrate a good shot.
It’s not that they celebrate the shot but what I see is a player who’s first thought is the crowd, instead of the score. When Rafa won that famous point against Novak in the 2013 USO, that’s celebrated in my avatar, he was in the moment in the match with regards to the score.

The crowd might have sat there mutely, for all he cared..
 
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Jelenafan

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There is truth in there that dispels this notion they are the same player because they play under the Spanish flag. Not so much that Nads was a more complete player. Charlie definitely has more shots, but Nads was a more mature player. He was absolutely relentless back then and played every point like it was MP. Charlie is not there yet and may never be if he insist on showboating first.
Which still begs the issue Fiero brought up, that they have a similar “arrogance”, I just don’t see the similarities in their personalities.
 

El Dude

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LOL at Rafa being arrogant. I mean, he might have a touch of it (how could he not?) but he always struck me as more humble than Novak and Roger.

Anyhow, I tend to agree with Kieran about the annoyance of the young guys. Let's not forget that this is "Generation Selfie." They all grew up with smart phones and social media. Novak is a bit older, but as Kieran said he's been a bit needy: "I'm great, love me too!"
 

Kieran

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LOL at Rafa being arrogant. I mean, he might have a touch of it (how could he not?) but he always struck me as more humble than Novak and Roger.

Anyhow, I tend to agree with Kieran about the annoyance of the young guys. Let's not forget that this is "Generation Selfie." They all grew up with smart phones and social media. Novak is a bit older, but as Kieran said he's been a bit needy: "I'm great, love me too!"
Ahem. Novak crying during the US Open final 2021 because the crowd cheered him on (when he ought to have been focused on the match):