Wimbledon Final : Lisicki vs Bartoli

[Ricardo]

Congrats Marion!!!

The French have been looking towards the men for years, and it's the outcast woman who brings them glory!

well you know which is easier

very sad for Lisicki though, never came out of her beautiful shell....

Considering that more French men have made slam semi's in the last 5 or 6 years than the women, your "well you know which easier," doesn't hold up!

well, making semi's by playing very crappy low level tennis.... i know which is easier, do you? it can't hold up any better :laydownlaughing

You tell me, I saw the men's semi's of the French Open, one was a classic or the other was a total dud, as was the finals, where were you words then?

And, if you have such a low view of women's tennis in comparison to men's, stop watching or commenting on it. that would hold up MUCH easier....no?

that total dud was still much higher level tennis than what any WTA tennis ever attained, that much is clear no?
but you are wrong, i don't have a 'low view' of women's tennis. I am actually very precise about rating the level of play, i don't under-rate or over-rate like those sentimental fans.

 

[the AntiPusher]

:s Lisicki is a much better player than Zvonareva , lack of championship mentality , I don't think so , she wouldn't beat Serena or come back from bad injuries if she didn't have championship mentality . Lets wait and see what happens over the next year but I think she has a great chance of winning Wimbledon a few times I don't think someone with a lack of self esteem would get into a Wimbledon final ?

I have to run with Tossip here, Lisicki deserves the Wimbledon title no more than Bartoli. This is why matches are played, just because you beat superior along the way, doesn't mean you're more deserving than the opponent whom had the "easier" road. One woman wins the title, and that is the MOST deserving player.

Also, now you want to deem Lisicki a superior player than Zvonerva....really??

I know people are still on the recent high of Lisicki's run to the final, but let us not forget, Vera has also made a Wimbledon final and a US Open final and and semi's of a couple other slams, as well as reaching number 2 in the world.

I would to agree that Miss DramaZ Vera has had more of a accomplished career than Lisicki. so there is where I would differ with TM just a bit.

 

[Tennisman12345]

:s Lisicki is a much better player than Zvonareva , lack of championship mentality , I don't think so , she wouldn't beat Serena or come back from bad injuries if she didn't have championship mentality . Lets wait and see what happens over the next year but I think she has a great chance of winning Wimbledon a few times I don't think someone with a lack of self esteem would get into a Wimbledon final ?

I have to run with Tossip here, Lisicki deserves the Wimbledon title no more than Bartoli. This is why matches are played, just because you beat superior along the way, doesn't mean you're more deserving than the opponent whom had the "easier" road. One woman wins the title, and that is the MOST deserving player.

Also, now you want to deem Lisicki a superior player than Zvonerva....really??

I know people are still on the recent high of Lisicki's run to the final, but let us not forget, Vera has also made a Wimbledon final and a US Open final and and semi's of a couple other slams, as well as reaching number 2 in the world.

I have to disagree , I always think the player who beats the higher ranked players especially #1 deserve the trophy . But that doesn't always happen . I know at the end of the day whoever has the name on the trophy is what's important , of course I was supporting Lisicki on saturday , but if I ever watch a final and am neutral I would usually hope the player who had the tougher draw .

Yes I think so maybe results wise it doesn't look it yet but lets see what happens in the future . Lets not forget this is not the first time Lisicki has had a decent run at a slam , at Wimbledon she made QF in 09 and 2012 and SF in 2011 . She beat Sharapova at Wimbledon last year , the last 4 times she played she beat the reigning RG champion , I believe Lisicki will win slams especially at Wimbledon

 

[Calvy]

well you know which is easier

very sad for Lisicki though, never came out of her beautiful shell....

Considering that more French men have made slam semi's in the last 5 or 6 years than the women, your "well you know which easier," doesn't hold up!

well, making semi's by playing very crappy low level tennis.... i know which is easier, do you? it can't hold up any better :laydownlaughing

You tell me, I saw the men's semi's of the French Open, one was a classic or the other was a total dud, as was the finals, where were you words then?

And, if you have such a low view of women's tennis in comparison to men's, stop watching or commenting on it. that would hold up MUCH easier....no?

that total dud was still much higher level tennis than what any WTA tennis ever attained, that much is clear no?
but you are wrong, i don't have a 'low view' of women's tennis. I am actually very precise about rating the level of play, i don't under-rate or over-rate like those sentimental fans.

You just love comparing women's and men's tennis. They're DIFFERENT genders.

I mean really, doesn't take a PH. D to understand that men are faster and stronger than women....SO WHAT???

Fact is, it's just as hard for a WOMAN to compete against another WOMAN, as it is for a man to compete against another man.....NOW THAT SHE BE CLEAR AS YOU'LL EVER NEED.

---

:s Lisicki is a much better player than Zvonareva , lack of championship mentality , I don't think so , she wouldn't beat Serena or come back from bad injuries if she didn't have championship mentality . Lets wait and see what happens over the next year but I think she has a great chance of winning Wimbledon a few times I don't think someone with a lack of self esteem would get into a Wimbledon final ?

I have to run with Tossip here, Lisicki deserves the Wimbledon title no more than Bartoli. This is why matches are played, just because you beat superior along the way, doesn't mean you're more deserving than the opponent whom had the "easier" road. One woman wins the title, and that is the MOST deserving player.

Also, now you want to deem Lisicki a superior player than Zvonerva....really??

I know people are still on the recent high of Lisicki's run to the final, but let us not forget, Vera has also made a Wimbledon final and a US Open final and and semi's of a couple other slams, as well as reaching number 2 in the world.

I have to disagree , I always think the player who beats the higher ranked players especially #1 deserve the trophy . But that doesn't always happen . I know at the end of the day whoever has the name on the trophy is what's important , of course I was supporting Lisicki on saturday , but if I ever watch a final and am neutral I would usually hope the player who had the tougher draw .

Yes I think so maybe results wise it doesn't look it yet but lets see what happens in the future . Lets not forget this is not the first time Lisicki has had a decent run at a slam , at Wimbledon she made QF in 09 and 2012 and SF in 2011 . She beat Sharapova at Wimbledon last year , the last 4 times she played she beat the reigning RG champion , I believe Lisicki will win slams especially at Wimbledon

So, then last year Lisicki should have won Wimbledon trophy, because Sharapova was number 1 and just came off winning the French?

And by what you wrote, since Sabine beat higher ranked opponents in earlier rounds, one must assume you believe the finals shouldn't be played then if the other player beat lower ranked players, and the championship should be just be given to the player whom beat "superior" competition?

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

No whoever beats whoever deserves the trophy. I am sorry but just because you beat Stosur, Serena and Radwanska on the way to the final doesn't mean they should just hand you the trophy. All things considered Sabine should be embarrassed that she could hold her nerve against those players and go AWOL against Maid Marion. Maid Marion deserved her trophy it isn't her fault her side of the draw opened up with Vika's injury and Petra and Maria flaming out. Her draw could have been just as difficult but unfortunately it didn't pan out that way. It turned out much easier for her than it could have been.

 

[Tennisman12345]

Calvy I think so This is just my opinion I know lots of people will disagree but if a player beats #1 player and other top ranked players they are deserving of the trophy more than the player who has beaten lower ranked players to get to the final .

No I don't think that the final should Not be played , and don't think the trophy should automatically get given to the player with the harder draw . I just think the player who beats top players deserves the trophy . Maybe I just like to see players win the hard way and that's why I think like this .

---

Also I should add I think Lisicki deserved to win more than Bartoli , I'm not saying Bartoli didn't deserve to win . But based on the draw I think Lisicki deserved the trophy more

 

[Calvy]

Well, Bartoli has fought the good fight longer and more consistently over the last few than Sabine, so, I'd argue she's the more deserving one. And if history is any indication, Marion will translate her Wimbledon run to superior results as the year(s) goes on, whereas Sabine will continue to be erratic.

 

[Ricardo]

Considering that more French men have made slam semi's in the last 5 or 6 years than the women, your "well you know which easier," doesn't hold up!

well, making semi's by playing very crappy low level tennis.... i know which is easier, do you? it can't hold up any better :laydownlaughing

You tell me, I saw the men's semi's of the French Open, one was a classic or the other was a total dud, as was the finals, where were you words then?

And, if you have such a low view of women's tennis in comparison to men's, stop watching or commenting on it. that would hold up MUCH easier....no?

that total dud was still much higher level tennis than what any WTA tennis ever attained, that much is clear no?
but you are wrong, i don't have a 'low view' of women's tennis. I am actually very precise about rating the level of play, i don't under-rate or over-rate like those sentimental fans.

You just love comparing women's and men's tennis. They're DIFFERENT genders.

I mean really, doesn't take a PH. D to understand that men are faster and stronger than women....SO WHAT???

Fact is, it's just as hard for a WOMAN to compete against another WOMAN, as it is for a man to compete against another man.....NOW THAT SHE BE CLEAR AS YOU'LL EVER NEED.

---

:s Lisicki is a much better player than Zvonareva , lack of championship mentality , I don't think so , she wouldn't beat Serena or come back from bad injuries if she didn't have championship mentality . Lets wait and see what happens over the next year but I think she has a great chance of winning Wimbledon a few times I don't think someone with a lack of self esteem would get into a Wimbledon final ?

I have to run with Tossip here, Lisicki deserves the Wimbledon title no more than Bartoli. This is why matches are played, just because you beat superior along the way, doesn't mean you're more deserving than the opponent whom had the "easier" road. One woman wins the title, and that is the MOST deserving player.

Also, now you want to deem Lisicki a superior player than Zvonerva....really??

I know people are still on the recent high of Lisicki's run to the final, but let us not forget, Vera has also made a Wimbledon final and a US Open final and and semi's of a couple other slams, as well as reaching number 2 in the world.

I have to disagree , I always think the player who beats the higher ranked players especially #1 deserve the trophy . But that doesn't always happen . I know at the end of the day whoever has the name on the trophy is what's important , of course I was supporting Lisicki on saturday , but if I ever watch a final and am neutral I would usually hope the player who had the tougher draw .

Yes I think so maybe results wise it doesn't look it yet but lets see what happens in the future . Lets not forget this is not the first time Lisicki has had a decent run at a slam , at Wimbledon she made QF in 09 and 2012 and SF in 2011 . She beat Sharapova at Wimbledon last year , the last 4 times she played she beat the reigning RG champion , I believe Lisicki will win slams especially at Wimbledon

So, then last year Lisicki should have won Wimbledon trophy, because Sharapova was number 1 and just came off winning the French?

And by what you wrote, since Sabine beat higher ranked opponents in earlier rounds, one must assume you believe the finals shouldn't be played then if the other player beat lower ranked players, and the championship should be just be given to the player whom beat "superior" competition?

---

don't play the gender card, that's discrimination you should look it like this, it's HARDER for anyone (doesn't matter if you are a men, woman, kid or retiree) to beat a group of better players...... your logic complete fails when you are able to go beyond the gender thing. Without doing that, one could easily say that it's just as hard for an club player to beat another certain club player (which may be true), but what's the point? we are talking in absolute terms, which is the crux of things. It's not about men vs women, if you still can't figure it out :laydownlaughing

---

Calvy I think so This is just my opinion I know lots of people will disagree but if a player beats #1 player and other top ranked players they are deserving of the trophy more than the player who has beaten lower ranked players to get to the final .

No I don't think that the final should Not be played , and don't think the trophy should automatically get given to the player with the harder draw . I just think the player who beats top players deserves the trophy . Maybe I just like to see players win the hard way and that's why I think like this .

---

Also I should add I think Lisicki deserved to win more than Bartoli , I'm not saying Bartoli didn't deserve to win . But based on the draw I think Lisicki deserved the trophy more

---

Bartoli kicked her butt, definitely more deserving :clap how else can you have it? hand the trophy to Lisicky who got ran over by an undeserving player (Bartoli)? btw i like Lisicki a lot, nice curves

 

[the AntiPusher]

Bartoli kicked her butt, definitely more deserving :clap how else can you have it? hand the trophy to Lisicky who got ran over by an undeserving player (Bartoli)? btw i like Lisicki a lot, nice curves
[/quote]

btw i like Lisicki a lot, nice curves

Amen, Brotha:clap

 

[Calvy]

don't play the gender card, that's discrimination you should look it like this, it's HARDER for anyone (doesn't matter if you are a men, woman, kid or retiree) to beat a group of better players...... your logic complete fails when you are able to go beyond the gender thing. Without doing that, one could easily say that it's just as hard for an club player to beat another certain club player (which may be true), but what's the point? we are talking in absolute terms, which is the crux of things. It's not about men vs women, if you still can't figure it out :laydownlaughing

---

No, your logic was/is it's easier for a women to win a major on the womens side as oppose to a random pro winning on the mens side. Well, history reflects that isn't the case.

Women tend to have longer dominance than the men, hense the dominance of Court, Evert, Martina, Graf, and to a lesser degree Serena. This implies, it's actually harder historically for a woman to beat another woman professionally.

Of course you'd turn that around and claim it show the lack of depth, anyway to make an argument.

I don't do cartoon - "Ain't nobody got time for that"

 

[kskate2]

Ricardo. Do not flood this thread w/ alot of talk about the differences between the men and women's game. This thread is about the final between Lisicki and Bartoli. Stay on topic. If you want to discuss the differences between the tours there is a thread in the compare players forum and you can add comments there.

 

[colleen66]

Calvy I think so This is just my opinion I know lots of people will disagree but if a player beats #1 player and other top ranked players they are deserving of the trophy more than the player who has beaten lower ranked players to get to the final .

No I don't think that the final should Not be played , and don't think the trophy should automatically get given to the player with the harder draw . I just think the player who beats top players deserves the trophy . Maybe I just like to see players win the hard way and that's why I think like this .

---

Also I should add I think Lisicki deserved to win more than Bartoli , I'm not saying Bartoli didn't deserve to win . But based on the draw I think Lisicki deserved the trophy more

---

The person that won the match is the person that deserves the trophy and the victory. No one deserves a victory, one can only earn it.

 

[Moxie]

Calvy I think so This is just my opinion I know lots of people will disagree but if a player beats #1 player and other top ranked players they are deserving of the trophy more than the player who has beaten lower ranked players to get to the final .

No I don't think that the final should Not be played , and don't think the trophy should automatically get given to the player with the harder draw . I just think the player who beats top players deserves the trophy . Maybe I just like to see players win the hard way and that's why I think like this .

---

Also I should add I think Lisicki deserved to win more than Bartoli , I'm not saying Bartoli didn't deserve to win . But based on the draw I think Lisicki deserved the trophy more

---

The person that won the match is the person that deserves the trophy and the victory. No one deserves a victory, one can only earn it.

---

That's the bottom-line. Last woman standing. This is not a fable, it's a sport. There is no "deserving," there is only doing.

 

[tossip]

I have never seen a player so nervous as Sabrine was on Centre court. It happens but not typically for the majority of the entire match.

Sabine was not deserving of Wimbledon and the universe spoke...everything lined up perfectly for Marion to win this event with all the players in her side of the draw falling apart..

tossip , Lisicki deserved the trophy more than Bartoli . Lisicki beat Serena and Radwanska #1 and #4 seeds both of last years finalists anyone who beats 2 of the top 4 players deserves a slam .

Sabine deserved nothing,she lost her composure in that final and its no one s fault but herself.Sabine reached a final just like Vera Zvonareva and might end up slamless because of injuries and lack of championship mentality.She plays too much to the camera and spectators..this time she will be a marked woman.I hate the way she mugs to the fans and she comes off as wanting to please..usually that spells lack of self esteem.

:s Lisicki is a much better player than Zvonareva , lack of championship mentality , I don't think so , she wouldn't beat Serena or come back from bad injuries if she didn't have championship mentality . Lets wait and see what happens over the next year but I think she has a great chance of winning Wimbledon a few times I don't think someone with a lack of self esteem would get into a Wimbledon final ?

it happens that Lisicki might reach a final but lacks confidence to close the match.... Safina and Sveta have the same problem....who knows Lisicki might flame out and she is a known lazy player.

 

[Ricardo]

Sabine was not deserving of Wimbledon and the universe spoke...everything lined up perfectly for Marion to win this event with all the players in her side of the draw falling apart..

tossip , Lisicki deserved the trophy more than Bartoli . Lisicki beat Serena and Radwanska #1 and #4 seeds both of last years finalists anyone who beats 2 of the top 4 players deserves a slam .

Sabine deserved nothing,she lost her composure in that final and its no one s fault but herself.Sabine reached a final just like Vera Zvonareva and might end up slamless because of injuries and lack of championship mentality.She plays too much to the camera and spectators..this time she will be a marked woman.I hate the way she mugs to the fans and she comes off as wanting to please..usually that spells lack of self esteem.

:s Lisicki is a much better player than Zvonareva , lack of championship mentality , I don't think so , she wouldn't beat Serena or come back from bad injuries if she didn't have championship mentality . Lets wait and see what happens over the next year but I think she has a great chance of winning Wimbledon a few times I don't think someone with a lack of self esteem would get into a Wimbledon final ?

it happens that Lisicki might reach a final but lacks confidence to close the match.... Safina and Sveta have the same problem....who knows Lisicki might flame out and she is a known lazy player.

well she was never in a position to close the match, if anything Bartoli had some trouble closing it out at 6-1 5-1.

 

[tossip]

tossip , Lisicki deserved the trophy more than Bartoli . Lisicki beat Serena and Radwanska #1 and #4 seeds both of last years finalists anyone who beats 2 of the top 4 players deserves a slam .

Sabine deserved nothing,she lost her composure in that final and its no one s fault but herself.Sabine reached a final just like Vera Zvonareva and might end up slamless because of injuries and lack of championship mentality.She plays too much to the camera and spectators..this time she will be a marked woman.I hate the way she mugs to the fans and she comes off as wanting to please..usually that spells lack of self esteem.

:s Lisicki is a much better player than Zvonareva , lack of championship mentality , I don't think so , she wouldn't beat Serena or come back from bad injuries if she didn't have championship mentality . Lets wait and see what happens over the next year but I think she has a great chance of winning Wimbledon a few times I don't think someone with a lack of self esteem would get into a Wimbledon final ?

it happens that Lisicki might reach a final but lacks confidence to close the match.... Safina and Sveta have the same problem....who knows Lisicki might flame out and she is a known lazy player.

well she was never in a position to close the match, if anything Bartoli had some trouble closing it out at 6-1 5-1.

Bartoli closed the match in two sets:clapI like Lisicki but she is too inconsistent for my liking and appears to be lazy..

 

[tented]

Bartoli closed the match in two sets:clapI like Lisicki but she is too inconsistent for my liking and appears to be lazy..

Yes, Bartoli played a fantastic match. She got tight towards the end of the second set, which happens to many players when trying to close out a match, but she pulled it together, and even finished with an ace.

As for Lisicki, if you meant she was lazy in the final, then I would disagree. The moment clearly overwhelmed her. If you meant lazy in general, that's different.

 

[Ricardo]

don't play the gender card, that's discrimination you should look it like this, it's HARDER for anyone (doesn't matter if you are a men, woman, kid or retiree) to beat a group of better players...... your logic complete fails when you are able to go beyond the gender thing. Without doing that, one could easily say that it's just as hard for an club player to beat another certain club player (which may be true), but what's the point? we are talking in absolute terms, which is the crux of things. It's not about men vs women, if you still can't figure it out :laydownlaughing

---

No, your logic was/is it's easier for a women to win a major on the womens side as oppose to a random pro winning on the mens side. Well, history reflects that isn't the case.

Women tend to have longer dominance than the men, hense the dominance of Court, Evert, Martina, Graf, and to a lesser degree Serena. This implies, it's actually harder historically for a woman to beat another woman professionally.

Of course you'd turn that around and claim it show the lack of depth, anyway to make an argument.

I don't do cartoon - "Ain't nobody got time for that"

---

clearly you don't get it, just save it with the above flawed logic. Ever thought its harder for you to beat a certain local club player than for Lisicki to beat Bartoli? never mind, i don't expect any logic to get through a very 'devoted' fan. Apart from that, i agree with your position on Bartoli vs Lisicki.

 

[Moxie]

Ever thought its harder for you to beat a certain local club player than for Lisicki to beat Bartoli? never mind, i don't expect any logic to get through a very 'devoted' fan. Apart from that, i agree with your position on Bartoli vs Lisicki.

What does that even mean? You spend a lot of time talking about "club players" when you contribute on the WTA side of these forums, and it does come off as a poorly-veiled insult. I would follow Calvy's question above...if you have no respect for the women's game, then why do you bother to comment here? I would say that, more than appreciating women's tennis, you like putting it down. No one forces you to watch it. If you do, then I will assume you consider it a valid professional sport. If you don't appreciate the level that it's played at, I would wonder why you waste your own time.

 

[Ricardo]

Ever thought its harder for you to beat a certain local club player than for Lisicki to beat Bartoli? never mind, i don't expect any logic to get through a very 'devoted' fan. Apart from that, i agree with your position on Bartoli vs Lisicki.

What does that even mean? You spend a lot of time talking about "club players" when you contribute on the WTA side of these forums, and it does come off as a poorly-veiled insult. I would follow Calvy's question above...if you have no respect for the women's game, then why do you bother to comment here? I would say that, more than appreciating women's tennis, you like putting it down. No one forces you to watch it. If you do, then I will assume you consider it a valid professional sport. If you don't appreciate the level that it's played at, I would wonder why you waste your own time.

you got a problem when i mention club players? yes i also watch them, and if mentioning them here is an insult for you then feel whatever you want; i couldn't be bothered with over sensitive souls filled with false ego. Alright i admit i watch women play, largely because i find certain girls interesting, attractive and just visually pleasing..... their tennis isn't really breathtaking TBH, for pure tennis i could find much better ones at challenger events.

Bottom line, i don't need to conform to anything... what aspect of WTA is good for me, doesn't concern you. Respect or not is not an issue, and i honestly love watching Lisicki in action ok, i may be too direct but i am not the only one with such preference of the WTA.....