Wimbledon Final 2016: Murray v Raonic

[GameSetAndMath]

No, the actual race, since January, Andy is only 815 points behind. It's large, but not impossible to an ambitious man. However, Novak is still favourite to extend that, rather than lose ground...

But those 7225 points include points for the Davis Cup Final. The race always restarts after the World Tour Finals, not in January. That's why points for events which take place after the WTF (of which the Davis Cup Final is the only significant one) count for the race of the new season but don't play a role for the year end No. 1.

So in theory it's possible that the final #1 of the 2016 race and the 2016 year end #1 are different players if it's really close between #1 and #2. For 2017 that won't be the case as the ATP doesn't award points for Davis Cup this year, so no top player will gain any points for the race before January.

Those DC final points of last year count for the ranking and not for the race. So Kieran is right.

 

[lob]

he started roaring some nonsense after winning the 2nd set for no apparent reason though

The bloke is not hurting anyone deliberately...its not gamesmanship..so who cares... Murray's tantrums are mostly harmless...not even the ball girls take those brief spurts of insanity seriously...

chalk it down to some childhood trauma that strikes randomly .. as to the foul mouth...hey the lad grew up in a working class neighborhood..

 

[Backhand_DTL]

No, the actual race, since January, Andy is only 815 points behind. It's large, but not impossible to an ambitious man. However, Novak is still favourite to extend that, rather than lose ground...

But those 7225 points include points for the Davis Cup Final. The race always restarts after the World Tour Finals, not in January. That's why points for events which take place after the WTF (of which the Davis Cup Final is the only significant one) count for the race of the new season but don't play a role for the year end No. 1.

So in theory it's possible that the final #1 of the 2016 race and the 2016 year end #1 are different players if it's really close between #1 and #2. For 2017 that won't be the case as the ATP doesn't award points for Davis Cup this year, so no top player will gain any points for the race before January.

Those DC final points of last year count for the ranking and not for the race. So Kieran is right.

If you look at Andy's ranking breakdown: http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/andy-murray/mc10/rankings-breakdown and choose ATP Rankings Race To London you will see 275 points listed for the Davis Cup in the category ATP World Tour 500.

Also by adding up the points shown in activity for 2016: http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/andy-murray/mc10/player-activity the result is 4950 (before Wimbledon), so the 275 points for the DC final definitely count for the 2016 race.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

But those 7225 points include points for the Davis Cup Final. The race always restarts after the World Tour Finals, not in January. That's why points for events which take place after the WTF (of which the Davis Cup Final is the only significant one) count for the race of the new season but don't play a role for the year end No. 1.

So in theory it's possible that the final #1 of the 2016 race and the 2016 year end #1 are different players if it's really close between #1 and #2. For 2017 that won't be the case as the ATP doesn't award points for Davis Cup this year, so no top player will gain any points for the race before January.

Those DC final points of last year count for the ranking and not for the race. So Kieran is right.

If you look at Andy's ranking breakdown: http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/andy-murray/mc10/rankings-breakdown and choose ATP Rankings Race To London you will see 275 points listed for the Davis Cup in the category ATP World Tour 500.

Also by adding up the points shown in activity for 2016: http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/andy-murray/mc10/player-activity the result is 4950 (before Wimbledon), so the 275 points for the DC final definitely count for the 2016 race.

Oops, you are right. Those 275 points are included in the race points as well.

However, the ONLY purpose of race points is to figure out which eight players get to participate in the WTF. The year end #1 is determined simply based on who is #1 in the rankings (not race) at the end of the year. So, even though those 275 point count in the race, those 275 points will play no role in determining who is #1 at the year end. Hence, Novak's lead is larger than it appears by 275 points.

 

[Kieran]

So let me get this straight: 2015 DC final points count towards 2016 Race, but apply only with regards to the WTF.

For 2016 year-end #1, 2015 DC points drop off, and 2016 DC final points are counted?

Is that it?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So let me get this straight: 2015 DC final points count towards 2016 Race, but apply only with regards to the WTF.

For 2016 year-end #1, 2015 DC points drop off, and 2016 DC final points are counted?

Is that it?

Almost correct. In 2016, there are no points for ITF events of DC and Olympics. So, there are no DC points to worry about at all in 2016.

 

[DarthFed]

Pretty easy win as expected. Murray is great on grass and has been for awhile. People will say he got lucky that he didn't have to face Novak but I think Murray would've won that matchup. I really think Novak dodged a bullet last year when Roger trounced Murray in the semis. I'm not saying Nole has no chance on grass vs. Murray of course but it's a tough matchup all around because Murray's 1st serve is a huge weapon on grass.

I'm surprised the race for #1 is suddenly that close, I'd still be beyond shocked in Nole doesn't finish #1 (he is the favorite at USO and will absolutely dominate indoors as usual) but at least it's interesting.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

Those DC final points of last year count for the ranking and not for the race. So Kieran is right.

If you look at Andy's ranking breakdown: http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/andy-murray/mc10/rankings-breakdown and choose ATP Rankings Race To London you will see 275 points listed for the Davis Cup in the category ATP World Tour 500.

Also by adding up the points shown in activity for 2016: http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/andy-murray/mc10/player-activity the result is 4950 (before Wimbledon), so the 275 points for the DC final definitely count for the 2016 race.

Oops, you are right. Those 275 points are included in the race points as well.

However, the ONLY purpose of race points is to figure out which eight players get to participate in the WTF. The year end #1 is determined simply based on who is #1 in the rankings (not race) at the end of the year. So, even though those 275 point count in the race, those 275 points will play no role in determining who is #1 at the year end. Hence, Novak's lead is larger than it appears by 275 points.

That's exactly what I was getting at. It's unlikely to matter but if it's really close in November and the World Tour Finals will decide about the year end No. 1 this could cause some confusion and wrong calculations.

 

[isabelle]

congrats to Andy and Ivan very happy for the team
Andy, you're a hell of a guy and a great champ, please win a 2nd gold medal now

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Milos might not have won the trophy. But, some Canadian boy won. Shapovalov won the Boy's title. He was also part of the doubles finals, but did not win it. :clap

He is good...and has a single hander for a backhand

He got a wildcard for the Washington DC 500 tourney of next week. Let us see how he fares with men on his first outing.

 

[isabelle]

Milos might not have won the trophy. But, some Canadian boy won. Shapovalov won the Boy's title. He was also part of the doubles finals, but did not win it. :clap

He is good...and has a single hander for a backhand

He got a wildcard for the Washington DC 500 tourney of next week. Let us see how he fares with men on his first outing.

La Monf"ll play Washington too

 

[the AntiPusher]

Pretty easy win as expected. Murray is great on grass and has been for awhile. People will say he got lucky that he didn't have to face Novak but I think Murray would've won that matchup. I really think Novak dodged a bullet last year when Roger trounced Murray in the semis. I'm not saying Nole has no chance on grass vs. Murray of course but it's a tough matchup all around because Murray's 1st serve is a huge weapon on grass.

I'm surprised the race for #1 is suddenly that close, I'd still be beyond shocked in Nole doesn't finish #1 (he is the favorite at USO and will absolutely dominate indoors as usual) but at least it's interesting.

Nobody is catching and passing Novak until sometime next year. He is way too far ahead

 

[Backhand_DTL]

Pretty easy win as expected. Murray is great on grass and has been for awhile. People will say he got lucky that he didn't have to face Novak but I think Murray would've won that matchup. I really think Novak dodged a bullet last year when Roger trounced Murray in the semis. I'm not saying Nole has no chance on grass vs. Murray of course but it's a tough matchup all around because Murray's 1st serve is a huge weapon on grass.

I'm surprised the race for #1 is suddenly that close, I'd still be beyond shocked in Nole doesn't finish #1 (he is the favorite at USO and will absolutely dominate indoors as usual) but at least it's interesting.

Nobody is catching and passing Novak until sometime next year. He is way too far ahead

But an important reason why Novak is so far ahead is that he had by far the best results of anybody from July to November last year. For the rest of the year (if he doesn't add any additional events) he can only gain points in the 52 week-ranking by winning in Toronto (400), Cincinnati (400) or winning the World Tour Finals undefeated (200), whereas Andy has much more room for improvement. So if Novak has an occassional early exit while Andy continues to do consistently well the difference could narrow quite fast and Novak keeping the No. 1 ranking until the end of the year is while still very likely not a foregone conclusion at the moment.

 

[Kieran]

Exactly. It's the Race ranking that counts right now, and that lead isn't prohibitive of Andy catching him..

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Exactly. It's the Race ranking that counts right now, and that lead isn't prohibitive of Andy catching him..

Now, all members of Big Four except the Big One have dropped out of Toronto. Assuming Big One wins Toronto, that would make it almost impossible for Andy to catch up to Novak considering the strangle hold Novak has over the Asian Swing and the Indoor Swing.

 

[Riotbeard]

Exactly. It's the Race ranking that counts right now, and that lead isn't prohibitive of Andy catching him..

Now, all members of Big Four except the Big One have dropped out of Toronto. Assuming Big One wins Toronto, that would make it almost impossible for Andy to catch up to Novak considering the strangle hold Novak has over the Asian Swing and the Indoor Swing.

With 3 masters and 2 slams this years, I think the year end number 1 is a foregone conclusion (barring injury).

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Exactly. It's the Race ranking that counts right now, and that lead isn't prohibitive of Andy catching him..

Now, all members of Big Four except the Big One have dropped out of Toronto. Assuming Big One wins Toronto, that would make it almost impossible for Andy to catch up to Novak considering the strangle hold Novak has over the Asian Swing and the Indoor Swing.

With 3 masters and 2 slams this years, I think the year end number 1 is a foregone conclusion (barring injury).

No, it is fairly close all of a sudden (see earlier posts in this thread and/or look up live race points). But, with Andy's withdrawal from Toronoto, it is like throwing a white flag.

 

[El Dude]

So Andy isn't playing the Olympics or Toronto? I don't get it. He's only like 800 points behind Novak in the Race rankings....has a real shot at #1.

 

[Fiero425]

Now, all members of Big Four except the Big One have dropped out of Toronto. Assuming Big One wins Toronto, that would make it almost impossible for Andy to catch up to Novak considering the strangle hold Novak has over the Asian Swing and the Indoor Swing.

With 3 masters and 2 slams this years, I think the year end number 1 is a foregone conclusion (barring injury).

No, it is fairly close all of a sudden (see earlier posts in this thread and/or look up live race points). But, with Andy's withdrawal from Toronoto, it is like throwing a white flag.

It was bound to tighten up since both Nole & Andy have made all 3 majors! Djokovic has a little cushion winning the 1st 2 majors and Masters 1000! Like they say, win and the rest takes care of itself! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So Andy isn't playing the Olympics or Toronto? I don't get it. He's only like 800 points behind Novak in the Race rankings....has a real shot at #1.

Andy is playing Olympics, but skipping Toronto. Novak is playing both.

But, there is no points for Olympics this time. Assuming Nole wins, he can extend his lead over Andy to approximately 2000 which should be comfortable margin considering that Novak usually does well in the Asian and Indoor Swings.