Wimbledon Day 8: Tuesday, July 1 - Order of Play

[Moxie]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

 

[crystalfire]

I think out of all the players left fed has spent the least amount of time on court. Which should help him out

 

[tented]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

 

[Moxie]

100 + 135 + 144

Wonder what the excuse will be this time? I could take an educated guess or two.

If you saw his press conference, he made no excuses. He praised Kyrgios for playing a great third set tiebreak, and for bringing a big serve and power shots. That's it. Don't accuse Rafa of something he didn't do.

I was going to say that the "excuse" might be what it has been, from Rafa, and from his fans: that he was out-played. I don't know why folks don't remember how often he, and we, say that. I'd like someone to remind me of the last time that a Federer fan admitted that Roger was "out-played." Mostly we just get that 'Federer played like crap,' 'the match was on his racquet,' etc. But somehow that's not excuse-making, or inelegance?

It's a little cheap to anticipate misbehavior where there is none, and a bit of throwing stones from glass houses to look for it.

 

[crystalfire]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

i would normally agree with you but since hes a young player i beg to differ. beating someone like rafa could be a stepping stone for further success. and i think we badly need some new faces at the top of tennis so im excited to see where he goes.

 

[Front242]

It's hardly like he just won by serve alone either. Look at the hotdog shot he hit. Genius.

 

[crystalfire]

It's hardly like he just won by serve alone either. Look at the hotdog shot he hit. Genius.

exactly he actually looks like he has the full package.

 

[Front242]

Yup. Great ground game. The guy is hardly Isner or Karlovic!

 

[atttomole]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

What don't you like about Krygios's game? You do not like big serves and heavy forehands?

 

[Front242]

And genius touch ...

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0diHnvjJYV4[/video]

 

[tented]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

What don't you like about Krygios's game? You do not like big serves and heavy forehands?

In a word, no. I prefer guys with more moving parts, like Nadal, Federer, Nalbandian, and now Dimitrov, Dolgopolov, etc.

 

[Front242]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

What don't you like about Krygios's game? You do not like big serves and heavy forehands?

In a word, no. I prefer guys with more moving parts, like Nadal, Federer, Nalbandian, and now Dimitrov, Dolgopolov, etc.

Fed served 25 aces against against Müller so he could be classed as boring too in that case Dolgo served 43 aces in his last match!

 

[Moxie]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

What don't you like about Krygios's game? You do not like big serves and heavy forehands?

I didn't say I didn't like anything about his game. What I'm impressed with, for the moment, especially, is his aplomb. We're all looking for a teenager to break out. Big bombs are a little boring and undemocratic, but the ability to stand up against the #1, even though you're just a teenager with barely any street cred…that's impressive.

 

[crystalfire]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

What don't you like about Krygios's game? You do not like big serves and heavy forehands?

I didn't say I didn't like anything about his game. What I'm impressed with, for the moment, especially, is his aplomb. We're all looking for a teenager to break out. Big bombs are a little boring and undemocratic, but the ability to stand up against the #1, even though you're just a teenager with barely any street cred…that's impressive.

true. and we can all agree that it takes more than serves and forehands to beat rafa. if that was the case raonic and isner would have beaten him already. too bad for them they couldnt. well this kids got the game and he did it on tennis's grandest stage.

 

[crystalfire]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

What don't you like about Krygios's game? You do not like big serves and heavy forehands?

he as more than that he can basically rip from all wings. only thing he probably needs to work on is volleying.

 

[the AntiPusher]

100 + 135 + 144

Wonder what the excuse will be this time? I could take an educated guess or two.

No Excuse but an extremely dumb ass game plan by Uncle Toni and Rafa.. I am a USTA 5.0 - 4.5 player and there is no way in Hades I WOULD let a guy serve me up the T all day long. Rafa should have changed his positioning(I am not saying this because Cahill pointed it out , but my Lord that is tennis 101.)

Rafa movement wasnt where it needs to be which was evident when he consistently missed his DTl loopy FH shot and his inside out FH. He played too passively the entire match and wasnt coming forward to take control the ralles. Rafa's bh was way too passive and his slice strokes were just for rallies not with a purpose. His Movement to the Bh side was curtsory at best.

I said it before, the grass has changed at Wimbledon to a fast sort of Rafa proof type of surface. Rafa needs another voice to listen to beside Tony and FR, these guys are still preparing Rafa for the other tournaments but playing on the low bouncing surface that has been Wimbledon has made Rafa a deer in headlights. Hire a part time grass court consultant even if it just for the grass courts season and Wimbledon. Rafa will never win there again unless he addresses the main areas above and get another grass court expert. Look at Fed, Djoker and Murray.. They all have changed or added new tennis consultants to become more competitive at SW19.. No excused but what a piss poor effort by Rafa.. I am furious at his play over the past few weeks.

 

[tented]

^Well, he lost to a pretty darned good WC. I'm happy to have missed most of it. I like Murray against Djokovic, and even against Roger, if Fed is now the one out of the bottom half.

You didn't miss anything, IMO. I'm not a fan of Kyrgios' game, and I suspect you're not, either. It can be fun, or at least interesting, to watch someone like Davydenko, Nalbandian, Djokovic, or Roger beat Rafa, because of the ways in which they do it, but losing to players like Kyrgios and Rosol bores me.

What don't you like about Krygios's game? You do not like big serves and heavy forehands?

In a word, no. I prefer guys with more moving parts, like Nadal, Federer, Nalbandian, and now Dimitrov, Dolgopolov, etc.

Fed served 25 aces against against Müller so he could be classed as boring too in that case Dolgo served 43 aces in his last match!

You're being purposely obtuse, my friend. You and I both know Roger's game goes well beyond his ability to hit 25 aces, although that can be one component.

Part of Federer's genius has been his ability to adapt to his opponent. When he played Roddick here in '09, for example, he hit 50 aces because that was part of the equation to beat Roddick, who was having a great serving day, and also hitting a ton of aces. When he beat Rafa here in '06 and '07 he didn't do it by hitting 50 aces. Those wins required a different game plan. To beat Muller he needed to hit a few dozen aces; to beat Robredo he hit 11.

 

[Kieran]

No Excuse but an extremely dumb ass game plan by Uncle Toni and Rafa.. I am a USTA 5.0 - 4.5 player and there is no way in Hades I WOULD let a guy serve me up the T all day long. Rafa should have changed his positioning(I am not saying this because Cahill pointed it out , but my Lord that is tennis 101.)

Rafa movement wasnt where it needs to be which was evident when he consistently missed his DTl loopy FH shot and his inside out FH. He played too passively the entire match and wasnt coming forward to take control the ralles. Rafa's bh was way too passive and his slice strokes were just for rallies not with a purpose. His Movement to the Bh side was curtsory at best.

I said it before, the grass has changed at Wimbledon to a fast sort of Rafa proof type of surface. Rafa needs another voice to listen to beside Tony and FR, these guys are still preparing Rafa for the other tournaments but playing on the low bouncing surface that has been Wimbledon has made Rafa a deer in headlights. Hire a part time consultant even if it just for the grass courts season and Wimbledon. Rafa will never win there again unless he addresses the main areas above and get another grass court expert. Look at Fed, Djoker and Murray.. They all have changed or added new tennis consultants to become more competitive at SW19.. No excused but what a piss poor effort by Rafa.. I am furcious at his play over the past few weeks.

Come on, buddy, leave uncle T alone, the guy is unimpeachably great as a coach.

As for being furious at his play over the last few weeks - bear in mind that over the last few weeks he won a major.

Also, bear in mind that every single time Rafa heads to Wimbledon, he does so after just winning the French. There's a reason why this is an almost inaccessible double to achieve. Over the last decade, we've gotten used to the great players achieving almost impossible things - but we've forgotten a few old truths of the game: winning Paris and then making the adjustments necessary to win Wimbledon is a huge task, and it's in this area that Rafa has struggled over the last few years: he just hasn't had time to find his game on grass through playing matches.

Last year, he skipped Halle altogether.

The ironic thing is that he was playing well this year but just met a guy who played the greatest tennis. I know what you mean about positioning on the return, but this kid was a very clever server and he was capable of switching it out wide too, with the same results. You think that Rafa is slow on the uptake? The guy is maybe the most intelligent player we've seen, for figuring out a way to get into his opponent.

I think that next year he'll benefit from having the extra week: he can have a week for the beach, and then more time for preparation on grass. There won't be the usual rush on everything, trying to get enough rest after RG, while combining it with cramming lessons on grass, before he has to make the trip to London.

But none of this would have made a difference yesterday. Kyrgios was that good. We have to accept that. Rafa in his presser was realistic about it and gave the right praise, because this is reality. Sometimes you play well - and the other guy is inspired. Yesterday was that day.

I don't think he needs any more coaches, he already has the best in the game...

 

[Kieran]

I didn't say I didn't like anything about his game. What I'm impressed with, for the moment, especially, is his aplomb. We're all looking for a teenager to break out. Big bombs are a little boring and undemocratic, but the ability to stand up against the #1, even though you're just a teenager with barely any street cred…that's impressive.

That's what I liked, the chutzpah, the expressiveness, the way Kyrgios felt at home out there and yelled and fist-pumped and never backed down in the face of it. He was second best in the 3rd set - until the tiebreak, and even after Rafa broke back in the second point, he remained calm. Serving at 4-5 in that breaker, it was Rafa who got tight on return, but Kyrgios had exuberance in almost everything he did.

Some of his power was del Potro like, but it seemed even faster than DP. And with more economy. He had a physical ease about him, and a feather-lite touch at times. He read Rafa's game well, too, better than Rafa read his, but then he's probably been watching Rafa since before he was ten years old. He's got this, and then two more slams as a teenager. Will he be the first since Rafa - and only the second since Pete in 1990 - to win a major? It's unlikely, but he does inspire flights of fancy and wonder, much more so than the other young spikes, who seem to be waiting around for the others to die, or something...

 

[imjimmy]

Quotes from Nadal from his presser:

Rafael Nadal --

“I am not upset that I lost today”
“When you have an opponent who decides to hit the ball really strong and serve like that you are in trouble. I don’t think that I played badly. I hadn’t seen him playing on the other surfaces, grass is only two three tournaments a year but when you serve that big you will always have a chance. I don’t know if he is a guy I will keep meeting the sport is a mental battle at a times, he has all the qualities but things are always a little easier when you are just arriving. When you are there for a while people start to see the negative things about your tennis. We will see if he can stay at the top level but I wish him all the best.”
“When you have nothing to lose you can play the way he did today. When you are playing in the last rounds, it is harder to hit 140 mph second serves. For him the next round for me the beach. My draw was not the best against a lot of players who cannot give you a chance to play very much. I am not upset that I lost today.”
“I am satisfied the way that I played this Wimbledon,”
“The surface here is dangerous and my draw was not easy. I have not played against easy players,"
"Today my opponent decided to serve so big and play so aggressively from the baseline.
“This year I felt my knee was right to compete here. I think I competed well. [It] was not enough today, but that's the sport,”
“I was not able to read [Kyrgios’] serve during the entire match,”
“I was not able to put enough returns inside. In the tie-break he was able to serve better than me. That's an advantage.
“Congratulations to him. For me, I’m going to go to the beach in Mallorca,” Nadal continued. “[I’ll] have some weeks off with the great weather there, enjoying some holidays with family and friends.”
“I fought until the end on every single match. I was able to play some good tennis on this surface. That's something that I was not able to do in the last two years.”
“After a few weeks I am going to start practice again to prepare another important part of the season."