Wimbledon Day 6: Saturday, June 28 - Order of Play

[Billie]

Thanks Moxie, you are very kind but I can't promise anything. I was just reading and replying to a message and couldn't resist when I saw IH online.

 

[Moxie]

name the 10 guys

Easy...
Djokovic
Murray
Wawrinka
Gasquet
Almagro
Kohlschreiber
Haas
Youzhny
Phabio
Paire
Phat Dave
Dimitrov
You
Me
My brother (and I don't even have a brother)
And that's just (some of) the men!

There are a few on that list I would question, (besides you, me, your brother, etc.):

Gasquet? It's pretty and one-handed, but how effective?
Paire? I have no idea, but since he's really not a major feature, I'd be interested to hear the case.

 

[Moxie]

Thanks Moxie, you are very kind but I can't promise anything. I was just reading and replying to a message and couldn't resist when I saw IH online.

It has been always enjoyable to have your input, so I hope you'll contribute when you can. Nice to see you around, in any case.

 

[huntingyou]

Novak, Murray, Berdych YES

No 1HBH; Wawrinka on a good day (too many UFE on normal days) and Roger on a fast indoor HC.

Fat Dave it's retired.

I like Paire but the guy never plays a meaningful match, hard to gauge.

Gasquet, Youzhny, Grigor, Almagro, Kohlschreiber, Haas? That's a joke

 

[huntingyou]

Did you said Tsonga?

That's a crime

 

[Billie]

I think the list is a personal opinion, nothing more. Unless I am not aware of some kind of official backhand ranking. Maybe they used average number of backhand winners in a match or something like that and came up with the list. Or maybe they just don't like Rafa, that is possible as well.:lolz:

 

[I.Haychew]

Novak, Murray, Berdych YES

No 1HBH; Wawrinka on a good day (too many UFE on normal days) and Roger on a fast indoor HC.

Fat Dave it's retired.

I like Paire but the guy never plays a meaningful match, hard to gauge.

Gasquet, Youzhny, Grigor, Almagro, Kohlschreiber, Haas? That's a joke

Nadal is, undeniably, the superior overall player compared to all of those guys put together. But, iph you want to go strictly backhand to backhand, then I'll take every single one of the others, minus Tsonga. Remember...The prephace was "backhands in a vacuum". Youzhny, Gasuet, Kohlschreiber, etc. can probably hit a better backhand with a vacuum cleaner than Nadal can can hit one with a rakkit.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Hi Billie, Good to see you on the board.

Hey Miss Billie, How are you darling:clap

 

[markus1]

Nadal is doing pretty well, I thought he could be out by that time. But it's so annoying when he takes ages to serve and he always gets away with it. One day he will get his deserved point penalty

 

[Front242]

Nadal is doing pretty well, I thought he could be out by that time. But it's so annoying when he takes ages to serve and he always gets away with it. One day he will get his deserved point penalty

He should retroactively be docked 3 sets in a final

 

[brokenshoelace]

In a nutshell, you are saying no top player has ever tried so hard to hide their weak backhand?:snigger

I know you're kidding but, yes. Well, obviously, Nadal's backhand is far from weak. But no player in history has protected his weaker wing with the same effectiveness as Nadal. We think of him now as a player with few weaknesses. But when he first burst onto the scene, movement and forehand were virtually all he had (not quite, obviously, but you get the point). Think of how much he was able to achieve with those two elements before gradually rounding up his game.

I WAS kidding, except there was some truth to it for sure. I do believe when you look at Rafa's backhand on its own, I would not put it in top 10 in men's tennis. But he hides it so well that it does not matter. He had , what, 2 winners from that wing in the last match? He uses it to keep the ball going . And when you were talking about the parts of Rafa's game that you think might have regressed, I feel his backhand should have been there. I watched some past videos and the backhand, at times , was clearly a weapon. He actually initiated things with it. I don't see that anymore. And his slice backhand use to have more bite. Now it sits up, waiting to be punished. I am talking in general, so I am sure there are examples of it being solid here and there, but overall, I think the backhand has regressed...just like anything really, when you avoid using something, it does not get any better. Pretty much how Roger's backhand kept improving through his peak years.

Agreed. I think it can still be a weapon these days (for instance, the NA hard court summer last year was a clear example), but clearly not as often. Though I am impressed with the way he's been returning off that side at Wimbledon.

I think the backhand thing is a multi-layered issue. First, it's about confidence. You know, hearing Nadal talk is fascinating and there's something he keeps repeating: "if you're playing well it's because you have the confidence to go for your shots." Given that the backhand is the weaker wing, he really doesn't trust that shot enough to go for it unless he's feeling really good about his game. That's why it suddenly looked better in the latter stages of his matches with Rosol and Kukushkin. When you factor in how much he's struggled with confidence this year and the fact that he's generally not been spectacular, it makes sense.

Secondly, I wonder how much his knee issues have affected his backhand. He clearly struggles when he has to bend down low for the two hander (he hits more slices than he used to, and I'm not talking about the ones he hits on his terms).

With that said, Nadal is still smart with how he uses his backhand as far as point construction goes, and he can still defend very well off that side. When he's playing well, it looks quite good. It's always been a shot that comes and goes so I'm really not worried about it all that much. I do think we'll be seeing phases where it looks great again, perhaps sooner than we think. Though I definitely agree: Under no circumstances would I put it in the top 10 backhands on the men's tour.

 

[brokenshoelace]

name the 10 guys

Easy...
Djokovic
Murray
Wawrinka
Gasquet
Almagro
Kohlschreiber
Haas
Youzhny
Phabio
Paire
Phat Dave
Dimitrov
You
Me
My brother (and I don't even have a brother)
And that's just (some of) the men!

There are a few on that list I would question, (besides you, me, your brother, etc.):

Gasquet? It's pretty and one-handed, but how effective?
Paire? I have no idea, but since he's really not a major feature, I'd be interested to hear the case.

Gasquet's backhand IS better than Nadal's. It has its limitations due to its one-handed nature as far as forcing Gasquet to stand far back behind the baseline to take big cuts, but it's far more versatile, can finish points from almost any position, set up shots, angles, etc...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Did you said Tsonga?

That's a crime

I agree with this though. Tsonga's backhand is way too erratic (much like the rest of his game), and not even that, even when it's working it's really nothing special.

 

[huntingyou]

Nadal's backhand its such a wall defensively and then there is his passing shots on the run.

Guys like Richard and Kosh for example hit a cleaner and more versatile backhand from a neutral and offensive position.......I guess its truly a matter of opinion since I would not rank Nadal backhand lower 6 or 7

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Novak, Murray, Berdych YES

No 1HBH; Wawrinka on a good day (too many UFE on normal days) and Roger on a fast indoor HC.

Fat Dave it's retired.

I like Paire but the guy never plays a meaningful match, hard to gauge.

Gasquet, Youzhny, Grigor, Almagro, Kohlschreiber, Haas? That's a joke

Youzhny,Grigor was not my choice but Haychews and they are debatable. In fact, it is all debatable. That is my point. In a vacuum, the shot suddenly becomes exposed. I personally just cannot see how Nadal has a better backhand than a guy like Gasquet or Magro or Haas. But you can and it is all fine.

The reason I put Tsonga there is the versatility of his backhand and his willingness to initiate things with it. It is powerful, the slice on a good day has lots of bite and he can pass you with a single hander too when he is forced to.

 

[Haelfix]

Nadal's backhand its such a wall defensively and then there is his passing shots on the run.

Guys like Richard and Kosh for example hit a cleaner and more versatile backhand from a neutral and offensive position.......I guess its truly a matter of opinion since I would not rank Nadal backhand lower 6 or 7

Rafa's backhand is a pretty mediocre shot. He doesn't make many errors with it, and he has wonderful passing shots, but its not going to win any rallies for him like some of the other top guys.

It's best on clay, where the spin keeps the opponent from going into it too much. It's actually pretty rare to see it exposed, b/c Rafa hides it so well with the ever present inside out threat, but it does happen sometimes when you see lefty vs lefty rallies. For instance, Verdasco was giving Rafa's bh all sorts of fits a few years ago at the AO and you could see him progressively lose ground.

 

[DarthFed]

Thanks Moxie, you are very kind but I can't promise anything. I was just reading and replying to a message and couldn't resist when I saw IH online.

Always good to see you around Billie. Wish you posted more often!