Wimbledon 2024 Men's Final - Alcaraz v. Djokovic

[El Dude]

I'm not looking for a fight. I'm holding your feet to the fire, is all. When you feel the heat, you just say i'm "crabby?"

But you've forgotten that we were trying to compare Nadal and Alcaraz, at the same age on grass, and you said that Alcaraz would have beaten him "handily." I made a good argument for "not handily," which you deflected, with "match-up v. Fed" and Alcaraz v Novak. I'm saying, that's apples and oranges. I think you lost track of that one.

I'm also impressed by Alcaraz, and yes, the rest is just conjecture.

I got it here:

View attachment 9622

___________________
Maybe you didn't read me correctly.

I said you're crabby because you're going after several people and you're wanting to forge a disagreement with me, when there really isn't much to go. You're trying to tie me to a strong opinion that you find wrong, so you can argue. I don't feel strongly about any of this, so there isn't anything to defend, but you're going at me like I'm in court trying to win a case. But whatevs.

Again, it isn't a strong opinion, just the sense I have of it. There are no hard numbers to prove one was better than the other on grass at the same age, and ultimately I have no idea. But, in the end, Alcaraz has the two Wimbledon trophies at 21, so he's certainly more accomplished. I'd love to have been able to see 21 year old Alcaraz and Nadal duke it out, but we'll never see that, unfortunately. Except in fantasy tennis land!

 

[don_fabio]

Getting back to the match,
My husband a tragic Pete Sampras fan and I say that in a loving way his thoughts Alcaraz serving like prime Sampras in the final
Maybe AP a fan of Sampras could share his thoughts.

Alcaraz served yesterday better than anything I've seen before from him. So huge and clutch at times, Novak could not read his serve for the majority of the match.

I would say the most mature and best performance so far from Alcaraz given the occasion and all. He showed all weapons yesterday and was not holding back a single thing. Passing shots, half volleys/volleys dropshots, return winners, touch while chasing dropshots, baseline power from both wings, mental toughness after squandering the MPs, incredible speed, zero percent of fooling around...you name it, all was there.

There is no player currently that would have won yesterday against Alcaraz playing like this.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Alcaraz served yesterday better than anything I've seen before from him. So huge and clutch at times, Novak could not read his serve for the majority of the match.

I would say the most mature and best performance so far from Alcaraz given the occasion and all. He showed all weapons yesterday and was not holding back a single thing. Passing shots, half volleys/volleys dropshots, return winners, touch while chasing dropshots, baseline power from both wings, mental toughness after squandering the MPs, incredible speed, zero percent of fooling around...you name it, all was there.

There is no player currently that would have won yesterday against Alcaraz playing like this.

Thanks Don,
Yes he really upped his serve in that final, agree the best I have seen from him this year so far, I always thought his serve was an area he could improve on.
I also thought as he didnt play his best tennis in the tournament he would raise his level for the final. Indeed he did, all his weapons were firing and on show, to me at such a young age he is 'the complete player.
Agree, there is no player currently that would have won against him yesterday. He was a Joy to watch

 

[the AntiPusher]

I said you're crabby because you're going after several people and you're wanting to forge a disagreement with me, when there really isn't much to go. You're trying to tie me to a strong opinion that you find wrong, so you can argue. I don't feel strongly about any of this, so there isn't anything to defend, but you're going at me like I'm in court trying to win a case. But whatevs.

Again, it isn't a strong opinion, just the sense I have of it. There are no hard numbers to prove one was better than the other on grass at the same age, and ultimately I have no idea. But, in the end, Alcaraz has the two Wimbledon trophies at 21, so he's certainly more accomplished. I'd love to have been able to see 21 year old Alcaraz and Nadal duke it out, but we'll never see that, unfortunately. Except in fantasy tennis land!

I would be satisfied if we could get one year of Rafa duking it out as you said like they did in 22 during the first half of the year..

 

[Moxie]

I said you're crabby because you're going after several people and you're wanting to forge a disagreement with me, when there really isn't much to go. You're trying to tie me to a strong opinion that you find wrong, so you can argue. I don't feel strongly about any of this, so there isn't anything to defend, but you're going at me like I'm in court trying to win a case. But whatevs.

Again, it isn't a strong opinion, just the sense I have of it. There are no hard numbers to prove one was better than the other on grass at the same age, and ultimately I have no idea. But, in the end, Alcaraz has the two Wimbledon trophies at 21, so he's certainly more accomplished. I'd love to have been able to see 21 year old Alcaraz and Nadal duke it out, but we'll never see that, unfortunately. Except in fantasy tennis land!

You posit a question, with stats, and I figured that meant you wanted reaction. I didn't argue it heatedly, I was examining what you said. I figured that, if you bothered to look up the numbers, you'd want to discuss. Perhaps you just want people to admire them?

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

I personally do not like the all-white dress code at Wimbledon. It's so 20th century. I don't know anywhere else that has a dress code like that. My sisters went to a private high school that had uniforms in the mid-to-late 2000s, and they didn't even have a strict all-white dress code like that, lol.

Plus, it can be difficult to tell the players apart when they're wearing all white. It's time for Wimbledon to move to the 21st century and let the players wear whatever they want, just like everywhere else in normal life.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Another factor to keep in mind with Alcaraz,
If he can win the AO in 2025 he will complete a career slam at age 21
I understand there is a lot to be played out before then, still a great feat for Alcaraz if he can win the AO in 2025.

 

[kskate2]

Carlos to Djoke yesterday:
Take your air-violin and your needy disposition for all things crowd related and

 

[kskate2]

This kid wasn't playing yesterday when he said his dance moves need improvement:

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This kid wasn't playing yesterday when he said his dance moves need improvement:

Well at least he can laugh about his dance skills lol!

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Congratulations to Alcaraz!!!!!!!!

 

[Jelenafan]

I would venture that Djokovic's chances of another Wimbledon championship are slim, at best. Here everything conspired to give him a dream march (weak quarter, Sinner and Alcaraz on the other half, injuries, qtr walkover, etc ) to the FInal and once there, was clearly outmatched by Alcaraz. More of a beatdown if Alcaraz hadn't blinked on his 4 MP's. A year from now Alcaraz will most likely be stronger and of course more experienced, entering his peak years and Novak will be 38 and slipping even more. The odds of avoiding Alcaraz, Sinner, and Medvedev before the final aren't good going forward.

It's weirdly ironic that the Federer fans would lament how Roger was so much "older" than his arch rivals (Nadal, Djokovic) to excuse his losses and yet here we had a 16 year difference in age (37 versus 21) which really stood out but most fans seem to shrug as in, "if you are out there, no excuses, including age."

 

[Fiero425]

I would venture that Djokovic's chances of another Wimbledon championship are slim, at best. Here everything conspired to give him a dream march (weak quarter, Sinner and Alcaraz on the other half, injuries, qtr walkover, etc ) to the FInal and once there, was clearly outmatched by Alcaraz. More of a beatdown if Alcaraz hadn't blinked on his 4 MP's. A year from now Alcaraz will most likely be stronger and of course more experienced, entering his peak years and Novak will be 38 and slipping even more. The odds of avoiding Alcaraz, Sinner, and Medvedev before the final aren't good going forward.

It's weirdly ironic that the Federer fans would lament how Roger was so much "older" than his arch rivals (Nadal, Djokovic) to excuse his losses and yet here we had a 16 year difference in age (37 versus 21) which really stood out but most fans seem to shrug as in, "if you are out there, no excuses, including age."

I laugh thinking of the hypocrisy, but even more so of the "haters" who got nervous when Djokovic broke back facilitating a TB in the 3rd set!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Points to defend for the rest of the year in 2024 for the Top 3,

Sinner 3370
Alcaraz 2180
Djokovic 5300

 

[the AntiPusher]

You're arguing two different things. You're dismissing that Rafa came close to Roger in 2007, given Roger's prowess on grass, and calling it a bad match-up. That was Rafa at 21 and Roger at 25. Roger with 8 Wimbledon titles, in the end. Then you say, with no transition, that Alcaraz has already beaten Novak twice at W, but that's when Alcaraz was 20 and 21, and Novak 36 and 37. How is that comparable?

Look, I know you're making a leap to compare Charlie with Rafa in fantasy tennis, but I think you have to try harder to compare apples to apples. You may say that Alcaraz has a game that more suits grass than Rafa's, but Rafa has proven himself on grass, against the greatest grass courter in the men's game. He also wanted to win at Wimbledon more than anything, so you can't just say that Alcaraz loves it more.

Also, did you just say that Alcaraz is better on grass than Roger?

Hey sis Moxie.. I am gonna help out our good Rafa admirer El Dude.. Here's an interesting stat I receive from Tennisman'

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Hey sis Moxie.. I am gonna help out our good Rafa admirer El Dude.. Here's an interesting stat I receive from Tennisman'

Question is El Dude such an admirer that we can send him A Rafa Tee-shirt? just asking

 

[Moxie]

This kid wasn't playing yesterday when he said his dance moves need improvement:

That wasn't terrible! At least he gave her a spin. And didn't do the dreaded "get her head caught on your arm." LOL. But it is funny that footwork and coordination on the tennis court do not necessarily translate to footwork and coordination on the dance floor.

 

[mrzz]

In what sense? That the stadium didn't blow up before it was over?

That's reason #1. I am almost beggining to not hate you.

But, apart from that, overall level was meh.

 

[Moxie]

That's reason #1. I am almost beggining to not hate you.

But, apart from that, overall level was meh.

I'm relieved that you're beginning to not hate me. It's worth remembering that the level was only "meh" from one side of the court. The other player can't control that. What final would you have preferred?

 

[Jelenafan]

I laugh thinking of the hypocrisy, but even more so of the "haters" who got nervous when Djokovic broke back facilitating a TB in the 3rd set!

Oh believe me, Novak is a true champion so of course there was going to be speculative buzz about if he could somehow pull out that 3rd set, it's not like he hasn't done it before. Alcaraz *did* get a bit nervy (it's not as if Novak raised his game in those MP's all that much) but the head games are so much of tennis. My overall point is Novak's legs are not going to drastically improve or get magically better by 2025, and so much of Wimbledon is bending, leg and knee work.

TBH, only Federer fans trotted out that he was ancient to excuse his losses in SF's and Finals of Majors, Nadal wasn't given that backdoor excuse either even though he also faced opponents 10-15 years younger. I think Casper Ruud was a similar age difference when Nadal bested him at Roland Garos two years ago.