What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

Murat Baslamisli

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The lawsuit was dismissed and the kid’s account was disputed. Trying to cool the situation down was his claim, except the man on the receiving end didn’t see it that way.
And what do you have to say about my main point, the reaction that he got from people before knowing anything about the incident, from one picture? Plus, I am not sure where you are reading this but as far as I know, the man's claim that he was abused by this boy was never substantiated. The kid literally did nothing to him. Watch the full video. it is just about 15 minutes.
Again, the kid could be the biggest douche, I do not care. I am talking about the double standard, that's all.
 
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Murat Baslamisli

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You shouldn’t be using Bill Nye as the source of information.



Yes, of course the earth will keep going around the sun until the sun runs out of energy. That’s never been in dispute.



The levels of today are worth preserving because they’re the ones which led to the existence of life as we know it. We could not have survived under other conditions, which wouldn’t have been compatible with our biology. The point of stopping the CO2 levels of growing so high is to retain conditions suitable to our existence, not the planet’s.



.

I am glad you made that distinction because most alarmists claim it is the PLANET that is dying, whereas what they really mean is they want to save their own asses, the planet will be fine with or without us. Maybe even better without, who knows.
But still , the variance in CO2 levels change even depending on where you are , and drastically, and we still survive. For example when you are walking under a canopy of trees in a forest or listening to a lecture in an auditorium full of people , you are subjected to double the amount of CO2 than average yet you function pretty well. Human beings adept to conditions fairly well I think. A very good sports example: When NBA teams go to Denver, most of the times they struggle because Denver is a mile higher than sea level and there is a 17% difference in the amount of oxygen that you breath in compared to anywhere at sea level. Keep in mind , the atmosphere is 21% oxygen so a 17% difference is huge. Yet, players in Denver are used to it as opposed to visitors. That is a one big home court advantage for them. Their bodies adapted I guess. Compare that to the CO2 levels in the atmosphere. It is 0.04 ! Why can't humans adept to say 0.06? I have a feeling we can but I cannot prove it. People way smarter than me can probably.
 

mrzz

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“Puppet masters” was first used by you here.

Wow, I checked I still can not believe it. It really did not sound like myself to me, that's why I instantly assumed you used first. Bad mood does that to you (and no, it is not because of the topic, I am far away from home working 10 to 12 hours a day. I am distracting myself a bit in this thread).

I still think it’s worth reading more about her background, in order to get a more clear and accurate picture of her.

Also, I wouldn’t focus too much on the UN speech as a reflection of the depth of her knowledge. Clearly she was given a limited amount of time, and could only do so much.

I have seen her before here and there. Again, I think she is smart, and, for a kid, might have a good knowledge. But that still does not put her on a climate scientist level. A decent climate scientist would typically have 5 years graduation, plus two of a Master in Science, plus three to four of a Doctor's degree, and then will start to accumulate field experience. This is more time than her lifetime, with complete dedication.
 
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brokenshoelace

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And what do you have to say about my main point, the reaction that he got from people before knowing anything about the incident, from one picture? Plus, I am not sure where you are reading this but as far as I know, the man's claim that he was abused by this boy was never substantiated. The kid literally did nothing to him. Watch the full video. it is just about 15 minutes.
Again, the kid could be the biggest douche, I do not care. I am talking about the double standard, that's all.

I'm saying it's a forced comparison. The other kid literally just wants to save the world. She might be misinformed, but nobody can fault where she's coming from. What does that have anything to do with a kid who may or may not be a racist dick?
 

Murat Baslamisli

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I'm saying it's a forced comparison. The other kid literally just wants to save the world. She might be misinformed, but nobody can fault where she's coming from. What does that have anything to do with a kid who may or may not be a racist dick?
OK, she wants to save the world, and the other kid was there for a pro life event...he is trying to save babies. Liberals hated the guy, child or not. Cons hate this girl (or the people that put her up to this). I don't see how the comparison is forced. Children are good when they are on your side, they are dicks when they or on the other side. How is this concept hard to understand?
 

Moxie

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Wow, I checked I still can not believe it. It really did not sound like myself to me, that's why I instantly assumed you used first. Bad mood does that to you (and no, it is not because of the topic, I am far away from home working 10 to 12 hours a day. I am distracting myself a bit in this thread).

I have seen her before here and there. Again, I think she is smart, and, for a kid, might have a good knowledge. But that still does not put her on a climate scientist level. A decent climate scientist would typically have 5 years graduation, plus two of a Master in Science, plus three to four of a Doctor's degree, and then will start to accumulate field experience. This is more time than her lifetime, with complete dedication.

Oh, FFS. Now every activist has to be a PhD to qualify for an opinion? And yes, I noticed that you were slagging her off. Apparently, you're not the only one who doesn't believe that she's doing it via her own agency. So she posted this in February. You, and others, may not buy it, but give it a read. I really don't post this for my personal opinion, but because it has been discussed.

From Facebook:

Recently I’ve seen many rumors circulating about me and enormous amounts of hate. This is no surprise to me. I know that since most people are not aware of the full meaning of the climate crisis (which is understandable since it has never been treated as a crisis) a school strike for the climate would seem very strange to people in general.
So let me make some things clear about my school strike.

In may 2018 I was one of the winners in a writing competition about the environment held by Svenska Dagbladet, a Swedish newspaper. I got my article published and some people contacted me, among others was Bo Thorén from Fossil Free Dalsland. He had some kind of group with people, especially youth, who wanted to do something about the climate crisis.
I had a few phone meetings with other activists. The purpose was to come up with ideas of new projects that would bring attention to the climate crisis. Bo had a few ideas of things we could do. Everything from marches to a loose idea of some kind of a school strike (that school children would do something on the schoolyards or in the classrooms). That idea was inspired by the Parkland Students, who had refused to go to school after the school shootings.
I liked the idea of a school strike. So I developed that idea and tried to get the other young people to join me, but no one was really interested. They thought that a Swedish version of the Zero Hour march was going to have a bigger impact. So I went on planning the school strike all by myself and after that I didn’t participate in any more meetings.

When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them.
On the 20 of august I sat down outside the Swedish Parliament. I handed out fliers with a long list of facts about the climate crisis and explanations on why I was striking. The first thing I did was to post on Twitter and Instagram what I was doing and it soon went viral. Then journalists and newspapers started to come. A Swedish entrepreneur and business man active in the climate movement, Ingmar Rentzhog, was among the first to arrive. He spoke with me and took pictures that he posted on Facebook. That was the first time I had ever met or spoken with him. I had not communicated or encountered with him ever before.

Many people love to spread rumors saying that I have people ”behind me” or that I’m being ”paid” or ”used” to do what I’m doing. But there is no one ”behind” me except for myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.
I am not part of any organization. I sometimes support and cooperate with several NGOs that work with the climate and environment. But I am absolutely independent and I only represent myself. And I do what I do completely for free, I have not received any money or any promise of future payments in any form at all. And nor has anyone linked to me or my family done so.
And of course it will stay this way. I have not met one single climate activist who is fighting for the climate for money. That idea is completely absurd.
Furthermore I only travel with permission from my school and my parents pay for tickets and accommodations.

My family has written a book together about our family and how me and my sister Beata have influenced my parents way of thinking and seeing the world, especially when it comes to the climate. And about our diagnoses.
That book was due to be released in May. But since there was a major disagreement with the book company, we ended up changing to a new publisher and so the book was released in august instead.
Before the book was released my parents made it clear that their possible profits from the book ”Scener ur hjärtat” will be going to 8 different charities working with environment, children with diagnoses and animal rights.

And yes, I write my own speeches. But since I know that what I say is going to reach many, many people I often ask for input. I also have a few scientists that I frequently ask for help on how to express certain complicated matters. I want everything to be absolutely correct so that I don’t spread incorrect facts, or things that can be misunderstood.

Some people mock me for my diagnosis. But Asperger is not a disease, it’s a gift. People also say that since I have Asperger I couldn’t possibly have put myself in this position. But that’s exactly why I did this. Because if I would have been ”normal” and social I would have organized myself in an organisation, or started an organisation by myself. But since I am not that good at socializing I did this instead. I was so frustrated that nothing was being done about the climate crisis and I felt like I had to do something, anything. And sometimes NOT doing things - like just sitting down outside the parliament - speaks much louder than doing things. Just like a whisper sometimes is louder than shouting.

Also there is one complaint that I ”sound and write like an adult”. And to that I can only say; don’t you think that a 16-year old can speak for herself? There’s also some people who say that I oversimplify things. For example when I say that "the climate crisis is a black and white issue”, ”we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases” and ”I want you to panic”. But that I only say because it’s true. Yes, the climate crisis is the most complex issue that we have ever faced and it’s going to take everything from our part to ”stop it”. But the solution is black and white; we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases.
Because either we limit the warming to 1,5 degrees C over pre industrial levels, or we don’t. Either we reach a tipping point where we start a chain reaction with events way beyond human control, or we don’t. Either we go on as a civilization, or we don’t. There are no gray areas when it comes to survival.
And when I say that I want you to panic I mean that we need to treat the crisis as a crisis. When your house is on fire you don’t sit down and talk about how nice you can rebuild it once you put out the fire. If your house is on fire you run outside and make sure that everyone is out while you call the fire department. That requires some level of panic.

There is one other argument that I can’t do anything about. And that is the fact that I’m ”just a child and we shouldn’t be listening to children.” But that is easily fixed - just start to listen to the rock solid science instead. Because if everyone listened to the scientists and the facts that I constantly refer to - then no one would have to listen to me or any of the other hundreds of thousands of school children on strike for the climate across the world. Then we could all go back to school.
I am just a messenger, and yet I get all this hate. I am not saying anything new, I am just saying what scientists have repeatedly said for decades. And I agree with you, I’m too young to do this. We children shouldn’t have to do this. But since almost no one is doing anything, and our very future is at risk, we feel like we have to continue.


And if you have any other concern or doubt about me, then you can listen to my TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/…/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_…/up-next ), in which I talk about how my interest for the climate and environment began.

And thank you everyone for you kind support! It brings me hope.
/Greta
Ps I was briefly a youth advisor for the board of the non profit foundation “We don’t have time”. It turns out they used my name as part of another branch of their organisation that is a start up business. They have admitted clearly that they did so without the knowledge of me or my family. I no longer have any connection to “We don’t have time”. Nor has anyone in my family. They have deeply apologised and I have accepted their apology.

 

mrzz

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Oh, FFS. Now every activist has to be a PhD to qualify for an opinion? And yes, I noticed that you were slagging her off. Apparently, you're not the only one who doesn't believe that she's doing it via her own agency. So she posted this in February. You, and others, may not buy it, but give it a read. I really don't post this for my personal opinion, but because it has been discussed.

This is really being harder than I thought. No, activists do not need a PhD for an opinion. That was never the point. The point is that people are taking her opinion as an specialist opinion. I simply highlighted that she is not an specialist, and we've been through multiple pages debating how much she knows or not, even if I stated multiple times that this is irrelevant to my initial point -- which is that she is being used.

Yes, she addressed that in the post that you quoted, but, sorry, to begin with no one controls how his/her own image is used. Nazis used Nietzsche, I don't think they asked for his opinion (well, he was dead). So, even if she was staying home she still could be used and there was almost nothing that she could do about that.

Still, she is traveling around and giving speeches on the UN, and etc. I am not disputing her right to be an activist. But did she fund herself her sail on a Yacht to reach NY? Did she just decided to give a speech at the UN? No, someone else funded her, someone else invited her. What is so hard to understand here?

I am not saying that this is the greatest evil of all time, I am just pointing it out that this is, in a sense, propaganda. It is not the crusade of some innocent and pure little child against the big evil corporations. That is precisely the story line that the propaganda part wants to sell, and that is precisely what I am not buying. I am making a huge effort for this discussion not to be about her personally, but gawd you guys are not helping.

(and, yes, I don't like her. Crucify me. Just certify that the nails come from a zero emission steel company. You know, they consume a lot power.).
 

Moxie

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This is really being harder than I thought. No, activists do not need a PhD for an opinion. That was never the point. The point is that people are taking her opinion as an specialist opinion. I simply highlighted that she is not an specialist, and we've been through multiple pages debating how much she knows or not, even if I stated multiple times that this is irrelevant to my initial point -- which is that she is being used.

Yes, she addressed that in the post that you quoted, but, sorry, to begin with no one controls how his/her own image is used. Nazis used Nietzsche, I don't think they asked for his opinion (well, he was dead). So, even if she was staying home she still could be used and there was almost nothing that she could do about that.

Still, she is traveling around and giving speeches on the UN, and etc. I am not disputing her right to be an activist. But did she fund herself her sail on a Yacht to reach NY? Did she just decided to give a speech at the UN? No, someone else funded her, someone else invited her. What is so hard to understand here?

I am not saying that this is the greatest evil of all time, I am just pointing it out that this is, in a sense, propaganda. It is not the crusade of some innocent and pure little child against the big evil corporations. That is precisely the story line that the propaganda part wants to sell, and that is precisely what I am not buying. I am making a huge effort for this discussion not to be about her personally, but gawd you guys are not helping.

(and, yes, I don't like her. Crucify me. Just certify that the nails come from a zero emission steel company. You know, they consume a lot power.).
It's harder than you thought because you came out so grumpy. :) A more rational approach might have made this easier. Though, maybe I doubt it.

No one is treating young GT as a specialist or a scientist. This is where you are wrong. She is an activist. That is enough. The basic work of an activist is to do the emotional heavy-lifting. Not to equate her with Dr. King, but while he certainly had the moral high ground, his job was to inspire, and put himself out there.

I don't know how she funded her sail to the US, though I think there was help from that Swedish guy. Not sure the problem you have that she was invited to give a speech at the UN. That doesn't get bought. Certainly, at some point her grassroots activism took hold and got some funding from people with money. She has explained where some of it came from. She has also talked about how people have used her, as well. Or her image without her permission. You can keep thinking that she's just a girl being used as tool, but I think that's unfair to her passion. Without that, she'd never have gotten to a place where anyone would fund her, or have her speak at the UN. I'm not sure why you find this "propaganda", and to who's benefit. Oh, and yuck...you've rather proved your point is weak because you dragged in the Nazis.
 

Chris Koziarz

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Oh, FFS. Now every activist has to be a PhD to qualify for an opinion? And yes, I noticed that you were slagging her off. Apparently, you're not the only one who doesn't believe that she's doing it via her own agency. So she posted this in February. You, and others, may not buy it, but give it a read. I really don't post this for my personal opinion, but because it has been discussed.

From Facebook:

Recently I’ve seen many rumors circulating about me and enormous amounts of hate. This is no surprise to me. I know that since most people are not aware of the full meaning of the climate crisis (which is understandable since it has never been treated as a crisis) a school strike for the climate would seem very strange to people in general.
So let me make some things clear about my school strike.

In may 2018 I was one of the winners in a writing competition about the environment held by Svenska Dagbladet, a Swedish newspaper. I got my article published and some people contacted me, among others was Bo Thorén from Fossil Free Dalsland. He had some kind of group with people, especially youth, who wanted to do something about the climate crisis.
I had a few phone meetings with other activists. The purpose was to come up with ideas of new projects that would bring attention to the climate crisis. Bo had a few ideas of things we could do. Everything from marches to a loose idea of some kind of a school strike (that school children would do something on the schoolyards or in the classrooms). That idea was inspired by the Parkland Students, who had refused to go to school after the school shootings.
I liked the idea of a school strike. So I developed that idea and tried to get the other young people to join me, but no one was really interested. They thought that a Swedish version of the Zero Hour march was going to have a bigger impact. So I went on planning the school strike all by myself and after that I didn’t participate in any more meetings.

When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them.
On the 20 of august I sat down outside the Swedish Parliament. I handed out fliers with a long list of facts about the climate crisis and explanations on why I was striking. The first thing I did was to post on Twitter and Instagram what I was doing and it soon went viral. Then journalists and newspapers started to come. A Swedish entrepreneur and business man active in the climate movement, Ingmar Rentzhog, was among the first to arrive. He spoke with me and took pictures that he posted on Facebook. That was the first time I had ever met or spoken with him. I had not communicated or encountered with him ever before.

Many people love to spread rumors saying that I have people ”behind me” or that I’m being ”paid” or ”used” to do what I’m doing. But there is no one ”behind” me except for myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.
I am not part of any organization. I sometimes support and cooperate with several NGOs that work with the climate and environment. But I am absolutely independent and I only represent myself. And I do what I do completely for free, I have not received any money or any promise of future payments in any form at all. And nor has anyone linked to me or my family done so.
And of course it will stay this way. I have not met one single climate activist who is fighting for the climate for money. That idea is completely absurd.
Furthermore I only travel with permission from my school and my parents pay for tickets and accommodations.

My family has written a book together about our family and how me and my sister Beata have influenced my parents way of thinking and seeing the world, especially when it comes to the climate. And about our diagnoses.
That book was due to be released in May. But since there was a major disagreement with the book company, we ended up changing to a new publisher and so the book was released in august instead.
Before the book was released my parents made it clear that their possible profits from the book ”Scener ur hjärtat” will be going to 8 different charities working with environment, children with diagnoses and animal rights.

And yes, I write my own speeches. But since I know that what I say is going to reach many, many people I often ask for input. I also have a few scientists that I frequently ask for help on how to express certain complicated matters. I want everything to be absolutely correct so that I don’t spread incorrect facts, or things that can be misunderstood.

Some people mock me for my diagnosis. But Asperger is not a disease, it’s a gift. People also say that since I have Asperger I couldn’t possibly have put myself in this position. But that’s exactly why I did this. Because if I would have been ”normal” and social I would have organized myself in an organisation, or started an organisation by myself. But since I am not that good at socializing I did this instead. I was so frustrated that nothing was being done about the climate crisis and I felt like I had to do something, anything. And sometimes NOT doing things - like just sitting down outside the parliament - speaks much louder than doing things. Just like a whisper sometimes is louder than shouting.

Also there is one complaint that I ”sound and write like an adult”. And to that I can only say; don’t you think that a 16-year old can speak for herself? There’s also some people who say that I oversimplify things. For example when I say that "the climate crisis is a black and white issue”, ”we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases” and ”I want you to panic”. But that I only say because it’s true. Yes, the climate crisis is the most complex issue that we have ever faced and it’s going to take everything from our part to ”stop it”. But the solution is black and white; we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases.
Because either we limit the warming to 1,5 degrees C over pre industrial levels, or we don’t. Either we reach a tipping point where we start a chain reaction with events way beyond human control, or we don’t. Either we go on as a civilization, or we don’t. There are no gray areas when it comes to survival.
And when I say that I want you to panic I mean that we need to treat the crisis as a crisis. When your house is on fire you don’t sit down and talk about how nice you can rebuild it once you put out the fire. If your house is on fire you run outside and make sure that everyone is out while you call the fire department. That requires some level of panic.

There is one other argument that I can’t do anything about. And that is the fact that I’m ”just a child and we shouldn’t be listening to children.” But that is easily fixed - just start to listen to the rock solid science instead. Because if everyone listened to the scientists and the facts that I constantly refer to - then no one would have to listen to me or any of the other hundreds of thousands of school children on strike for the climate across the world. Then we could all go back to school.
I am just a messenger, and yet I get all this hate. I am not saying anything new, I am just saying what scientists have repeatedly said for decades. And I agree with you, I’m too young to do this. We children shouldn’t have to do this. But since almost no one is doing anything, and our very future is at risk, we feel like we have to continue.


And if you have any other concern or doubt about me, then you can listen to my TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/…/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_…/up-next ), in which I talk about how my interest for the climate and environment began.

And thank you everyone for you kind support! It brings me hope.
/Greta
Ps I was briefly a youth advisor for the board of the non profit foundation “We don’t have time”. It turns out they used my name as part of another branch of their organisation that is a start up business. They have admitted clearly that they did so without the knowledge of me or my family. I no longer have any connection to “We don’t have time”. Nor has anyone in my family. They have deeply apologised and I have accepted their apology.
That is very very good account from a 16 y old girl. Even if someone helped her to compose it, if all the thoughts are coming from her deep beliefs (i.e. not forced by her parents/older friends), then she's phenomenal.
The overall understanding of the world she's surrounded by, and the approach in resolving the social issues she's facing, is very careful and very considerate, showing a high level of emotional maturity, that on average few adults attain in whole lifetime.
 

Chris Koziarz

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This is really being harder than I thought. No, activists do not need a PhD for an opinion. That was never the point. The point is that people are taking her opinion as an specialist opinion. I simply highlighted that she is not an specialist, and we've been through multiple pages debating how much she knows or not, even if I stated multiple times that this is irrelevant to my initial point -- which is that she is being used.

Yes, she addressed that in the post that you quoted, but, sorry, to begin with no one controls how his/her own image is used. Nazis used Nietzsche, I don't think they asked for his opinion (well, he was dead). So, even if she was staying home she still could be used and there was almost nothing that she could do about that.

Still, she is traveling around and giving speeches on the UN, and etc. I am not disputing her right to be an activist. But did she fund herself her sail on a Yacht to reach NY? Did she just decided to give a speech at the UN? No, someone else funded her, someone else invited her. What is so hard to understand here?

I am not saying that this is the greatest evil of all time, I am just pointing it out that this is, in a sense, propaganda. It is not the crusade of some innocent and pure little child against the big evil corporations. That is precisely the story line that the propaganda part wants to sell, and that is precisely what I am not buying. I am making a huge effort for this discussion not to be about her personally, but gawd you guys are not helping.

(and, yes, I don't like her. Crucify me. Just certify that the nails come from a zero emission steel company. You know, they consume a lot power.).
OK, after that clarification, I don't argue with you anymore. GT has been used by some "assholes" as a tool to disseminate their "propaganda". Indeed, she's even shown 1 example of such "assholes" on her FB. However the "assholes" acknowledged their mistake and apologised. This is only 1 example. We could (if we investigate) find many such examples, where the "assholes" who used her as an image to pedal their agenda, would not even admit of wrongdoing, needless to say apologising. There are many examples of such steeling of someone's work/image without authorisation. That happens in every field and every aspect of life. Starting from arts (e.g. plagiarising music) to science (quoting/using the work of others without appropriate references and credits). It can also (and likely does in this case) happen in activism.
We likely differ only in our emotional response to this phenomenon herein. While be both condemn people who do it (as any reasonable person should do), you also feel disgusted by the occurrence of such abuse of GT image. But I actually don't feel such disgust. I feel that those "puppet masters" are actually making positive outcome on the society with their "propaganda". Even if they benefit financially from it. Their unfair alleged financial gains could be investigated but I honestly don't care. Because the "propaganda" in question here is far better than the opposite propaganda of FF special interests. It also needs to be stressed that the financial gains of the "assholes" herein, are no doubt minuscule compared with the financial gains of FF propagandists.
 
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Murat Baslamisli

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Guys, this is pretty easy. I am not going to post it here but there are videos of her where she is asked direct questions from reporters and there is no scripted answer. Find them , watch them and decide is she has any idea what she is talking about or not. I am not posting them here because I actually have zero issues with her. It is always the adults...
 

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Interesting discussion on GT. Advocates for both sides of the coin.



You posted this video because you want people to become total misogynistic after seeing it, right? It worked for me.
 

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OK, after that clarification, I don't argue with you anymore. GT has been used by some "assholes" as a tool to disseminate their "propaganda". Indeed, she's even shown 1 example of such "assholes" on her FB. However the "assholes" acknowledged their mistake and apologised. This is only 1 example. We could (if we investigate) find many such examples, where the "assholes" who used her as an image to pedal their agenda, would not even admit of wrongdoing, needless to say apologising. There are many examples of such steeling of someone's work/image without authorisation. That happens in every field and every aspect of life. Starting from arts (e.g. plagiarising music) to science (quoting/using the work of others without appropriate references and credits). It can also (and likely does in this case) happen in activism.
We likely differ only in our emotional response to this phenomenon herein. While be both condemn people who do it (as any reasonable person should do), you also feel disgusted by the occurrence of such abuse of GT image. But I actually don't feel such disgust. I feel that those "puppet masters" are actually making positive outcome on the society with their "propaganda". Even if they benefit financially from it. Their unfair alleged financial gains could be investigated but I honestly don't care. Because the "propaganda" in question here is far better than the opposite propaganda of FF special interests. It also needs to be stressed that the financial gains of the "assholes" herein, are no doubt minuscule compared with the financial gains of FF propagandists.

Finally someone explicitly writes it. It is a matter where the ends justify the means. I see the point of it, since some big bad capitalist will end up making billions anyway, it is better that he earns his billions in a more environment friendly way. I can live with that. The point is that there is always a catch. Are electric cars really that environment friendly? If you consider the whole production cycle, actually no. What if the "assholes" that you mention are exactly the battery makers of those cars? We should eat less meat (it is easy to say that when you don't like, but let's forget that)? But before we are forced to drown in Tofu (how I hate that shit), just let me remind you that soy production is one the greatest causes of deforestation. So, as I am sure you know, there are no easy answers.

My point is, again, normally together with an alarmist speech comes a solution package which could well be no solution at all. That is all my point and it seems some people are decided to ignore it.

Oh, and yuck...you've rather proved your point is weak because you dragged in the Nazis.

And with that I am out of the conversation. I was using an extreme example -- which are always useful - to show how anyone cannot control how his own image is used, so I was actually "supporting" GT here, and this was a secondary aspect of a secondary aspect of the whole point, and you use that to say that my whole point is weak. Sorry, game over for me.

P.S. I see (now) that there is a a whole legion of Greta haters out there, wasn't aware of that when I first expressed my dislike for her.
 

Moxie

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And with that I am out of the conversation. I was using an extreme example -- which are always useful - to show how anyone cannot control how his own image is used, so I was actually "supporting" GT here, and this was a secondary aspect of a secondary aspect of the whole point, and you use that to say that my whole point is weak. Sorry, game over for me.

P.S. I see (now) that there is a a whole legion of Greta haters out there, wasn't aware of that when I first expressed my dislike for her.
I'm not clear that an extreme example is always useful. As with our above discussion about transgender, I actually think it can muddy the waters. In any case, you cited the Nazis using Nietzsche as a propaganda tool. It seems to me that you are still buffing up your own argument, in that you believe that she has no agency in terms of her own opinions or activism. Whatever. Clearly there are two lines of thinking on this. Personally, I think it is a useless distraction from the more germaine discussion.

You can be out of the argument if you like, but I would rather prefer that we leave off the GT part of the discussion and focus on climate change issues. At least that would be where the conversation would be most interesting and useful.
 

calitennis127

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One kid was a racist, the other wants to save the world (regardless of her knowledge and command of the topic she's discussing). Hardly the same thing.


Lol.....you misinformed turd. Broken really is one of the most arrogant dumbasses I have ever come across. He is totally ignorant while thinking he has things figured out.

Here is the truth about Covington.

https://tomwoods.com/the-truth-about-the-covington-catholic-students-at-the-march-for-life/

The Truth About the Covington Catholic Students at the March for Life

20th January 2019 Tom Woods

The latest issue of the Tom Woods Letter, which all the influential people read. Subscribe for free and receive my eBook Think for Yourself: Professors Who Resisted the Mob Tell Their Stories as a gift.

No doubt you’ve heard the story about the Catholic school kids who supposedly surrounded and mocked a Native American man after the March for Life in Washington, D.C.

The usual libertarian suspects promptly took to social media to assure us of their profound respect for Native Americans (good thing they cleared that up!) and their outrage at these students.

It was the usual embarrassing p.c. sh**show.

By the next day the full video was surfacing, and the original version of the story turns out — you’ll never see this coming — to be a fabrication.

Here’s the video:



The truly central figures in the story are the Black Hebrew Israelites, or the Black Hebrews. I could tell you all about their theology, but frankly, nobody cares.

At the beginning of the video we see the Black Hebrews taunting the native Americans gathered at the Lincoln Memorial (where the students had gathered at the conclusion of the march, and where by coincidence some Native Americans were having a gathering of their own). “You[‘re] not supposed to worship eagles, buffalos, rams, all types of animals! This is the reason the Lord took away your land!” one of them bellows.

(Gee, I wonder what we’d be discussing right now if those school kids had been shouting things like that.)

A woman who may have been with the native American gathering (it’s unclear from the video) approaches the Black Hebrews to dispute their position. One of the men turns to the camera and says, “This is the problem, Israel; it’s always our women coming up with they [sic] loud mouth…thinking they can come and distract things with they [sic] loud-ass mouth, cause they [sic] not used to dealing with no [sic] real men.”

The native Americans are later told, “You think there’s Uncle Tom? You’re an Uncle Tomahawk. You got your head up the white man’s ass! You say peace? There ain’t gonna be no peace!”

The video also shows a black man shouting at them. They respond, “You got all these racist bastards — you nigger! you nigger! — all these crackers with these racist-ass Make America Great Again hats on, and you want to get violent with us? Get your Uncle Tom ass out of here!”

Meanwhile, for a solid hour the students endure language like: “You little dirty-ass crackers, your day coming!” “Dusty-ass animals!” “Bunch of child-molesting faggots!” The kids are also compared to “dogs” and “hyenas.”

Astonishingly, the kids keep their cool.

Then they’re told that only whites shoot up schools, and that they themselves “look like they [sic] about to shoot up a school right now!”

The kids, who had gathered to listen by that point, showed remarkable restraint by walking away.

(Would the people taunting them have done the same? The question answers itself, doesn’t it?)

The students pass the time (and drown out the Black Hebrews) with some school sports cheers.

It is in this context that Nathan Phillips enters the scene, banging a drum and marching into the crowd of students.

He later told the media that the students “were in the process of attacking these four black individuals.” “There was that moment,” he went on, “when I realized I’ve put myself between beast and prey. These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that.”

Not one word of that story is true, we now know. Nobody was attacking anybody. The Black Hebrews themselves had threatened people, it’s true, but the students? Not a single threatening word.

(The mainstream media story, that the kids confronted and surrounded the native Americans, is of course completely preposterous and as false as anything can possibly be.)

The Black Hebrews had shown up to taunt Phillips’ own people, and had been doing so over and over. Phillips doesn’t even mention this. But that’s obviously the whole story!

If he had really wanted to defuse the situation, he should have banged his drum in the faces of the hysterical lunatics who had been screaming racialist inanities for over an hour by that point.

I doubt he would have lived to tell the tale, so he chose instead to confront some high school students, whom he knew full well would not lay a hand on him.

Phillips also told the media that the students had been chanting, “Build the wall!”

We have all two hours worth of footage of what occurred. Not one person uttered those words.

One student recalled: “In the midst of our cheers, we were approached by a group of adults led by Nathan Phillips, with Phillips beating his drum. They forced their way to the center of our group. We initially thought this was a cultural display since he was beating along to our cheers and so we clapped to the beat.”

Soon the situation became confusing, especially with Phillips inappropriately in the student’s physical space. No one quite knew what was happening; you can hear multiple people asking, “What is going on?”

But they had shouted their cheers to the beat of Phillips’ drum, and this is unforgivable.

As Robby Soave wrote in Reason, after watching all two hours of the video, “There’s shockingly little evidence of wrongdoing.”

But these students should be ruined for this, according to major celebrities and half the Twitterverse, the vast majority of whom never saw the video.

Immediately afterward, by the way, the Black Hebrews were back at it, telling the kids that America will be destroyed in a nuclear holocaust, and that they themselves are all bound to become school shooters.

This is ignored. It’s kids jumping up and down to a drum beat for two minutes that everyone needs to note.

You’d think we’d also want to note that this Native American man thought it was the students, after an hour’s worth of vile filth being spewed at them, who needed to be approached with his drum. How deranged is that?

Meanwhile, half the country rushed to judgment on the basis of Phillips’ false statement, and of a picture of a student staring at Phillips, who was banging a drum an inch from his face.

I’d say the kid handled himself well. After having endured a full hour of vicious taunting — which would itself have been national news had the races involved been reversed — he stood there silently.

Oooh, but standing there silently can also be “racist”!

What can you say to something like that?

Again: the Black Hebrews had been taunting Phillips’ own people since they arrived, but Phillips claims he thought the students were the problem! If I’d been taunted and abused for a solid hour, and someone thought the right thing to do was to pound a drum in my face — my face! — I’d be flabbergasted myself: what the hell is happening here?

Come on.

It seems vastly more likely that he knew he could make an incident out of it (as has happened with Phillips in the past) by choosing the side that had been restrained and reasonable. (Again, don’t believe me? Watch the video.)

Meanwhile, this kid has been compared to a Klansman and a ’60s-era segregationist — for standing there amidst what was obviously intended to be a provocation, and a completely unwarranted one.

That kid — and his classmates — had done nothing. They had goofed off, or even just remained silent, during a full hour of abuse. They deserve medals.

Of course, the school administration and chancery officials in the diocese condemned these kids as soon as they heard the first version of events. These people are cowards, without exception, and if you ever find yourself in a situation where you’re thinking, “I sure hope the school administration [or the chancery office of the diocese] will back me up,” trust me, you’re sunk.

If I were a parent in this situation I’d talk to a lawyer immediately, and I would be sure the school and the diocese knew that I and other parents were doing so.

Message: if you cowards are going to sacrifice my kids to the social media mob, I am going to make your lives miserable.

There is a reasonable chance that the bishop of that diocese may be enough of a man of reason to intervene and stop whatever the cowards have planned. We’ll see.

Meanwhile, note well that major conservative individuals and publications rushed to judgment just as much as the mainstream media and the left. National Review has since posted a non-apology apology, as has the March for Life itself.

The conservative movement’s first instinct is always p.c. grandstanding. The left feels no comparable urge to appease its own opponents. Then conservatives wonder why they lose.



Read the original article at TomWoods.com. http://tomwoods.com/the-truth-about-the-covington-catholic-students-at-the-march-for-life/
 
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calitennis127

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I'm not clear that an extreme example is always useful. As with our above discussion about transgender, I actually think it can muddy the waters. In any case, you cited the Nazis using Nietzsche as a propaganda tool.

They also banned Catholic publications and used homosexuals as prison guards for their concentration camps.

It seems to me that you are still buffing up your own argument, in that you believe that she has no agency in terms of her own opinions or activism. Whatever. Clearly there are two lines of thinking on this. Personally, I think it is a useless distraction from the more germaine discussion.

The spelling of the word is "germane."

You can be out of the argument if you like, but I would rather prefer that we leave off the GT part of the discussion and focus on climate change issues. At least that would be where the conversation would be most interesting and useful.

Absolutely. Global warming is one of the pressing issues of our time, as the esteemed scientist Barack Obama has informed us. Along with Al Gore - all of whose predictions to date have come true - he has been a genuine pioneer on climate change issues. We should be thankful for his leadership.

I am also very appreciative that Kamala Harris has called for the banning of plastic straws in the United States. This will help ensure that the world's two worst ocean polluters - China and India - will stop their massive dumping of plastic waste into the oceans. I am also very proud of how American cities led by Democratic mayors have done an excellent job creating environments in which rats (literal rats) can feel comfortable living among trash, used drug needles, and human feces. This shows an extraordinary appreciation for the importance of ecological maintenance and preservation of the natural world.
 

calitennis127

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Imagine being an adult who talks this way....

More proof of how disconnected Broken is from black American culture, which he politically comes to the defense of. This is a common joke right now in urban social media memes in the USA and cornball Broken finds it immature.

A perfect example of a hypocritical white so-called "liberal." Bland, clueless, and disconnected all in one.
 

brokenshoelace

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Okay Mr. Nadal is better than Djokovic on grass (2010), or Mr. Federer has much worse racquet head acceleration now and can't win more majors because of it (2012), Mr. Federer is getting old (2011), or Mr. LeBron and JR Smith won't dominate together (right before they go on a tear through the Eastern Conference playoffs in 2015 and get to the Finals), or Mr. The Covington kid was racist (when it was the Black Hebrews shouting racial epithets at the Native Americans and the white students).

Sure. You clueless buffoon, lol. Sure.

HAHAHAHA yes LeBron and JR Smith dominated together. That's like when Kobe and that Jabroni combined for 83 points. LeBron and Kyrie dominated together. JR Smith was just a role player.

But speaking of which, let's talk about how JR dominated since...he certainly dominated the headlines in 2018... when you know, he literally didn't know what the score was.