What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

britbox

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I find it astonishing that we're still talking about this. The man sat/took a knee during the national anthem as a protest in solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement. 3 years ago. And I'm surprised especially at folks like @britbox who are not even American still exercised about it. A lot of good points made above, but I do think Kaepernick might have found another NFL home when he was 27 had he not been essentially "black-balled." I have no problem with him saying he's made his point and doesn't need to protest during the anthem anymore, but I guess the ship has sailed for him, now. I also don't remember exactly when sporting events in this country got conflated with big displays of patriotism. Why is that necessary? And how is taking a knee during the national anthem a direct insult to our troops? Way overly politicized. And I agree with @mrzz that the PC police are working in a different direction on this one, and some people don't see that.

We're talking about it because it's current news with Kaepernick doing the Nike adverts and I wasn't the person who brought it up. Neither am I exercised about it - just offering an opinion on why he didn't he get another team. The NFL wants this to go away... the owners want this to go away... the brand took a hit. They are just facts Moxie... and the NFL gets paid by the US military as a sponsor. We're not talking about some superstar here... if he was, he would still be on a team. Sure, he's good enough to make a roster, if not as a starting quarterback but It's pretty evident that an owner doesn't want the media hullaballoo that would go with it.
 

Moxie

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Yeah, I know about the Nike ad. Interesting that the US military sponsors the NFL. I guess that explains some of the "moral outrage" over dissing of the troops...really just "dissing" of a sponsor. I'm surprised, though, at you taking against his position of protest.
 

britbox

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Yeah, I know about the Nike ad. Interesting that the US military sponsors the NFL. I guess that explains some of the "moral outrage" over dissing of the troops...really just "dissing" of a sponsor. I'm surprised, though, at you taking against his position of protest.

I don't really have much of an issue with his protesting. I couldn't really care less about it... even though I think he should do that in his own time rather than on duty for his team. He's not a victim here... but it's plain to see why the NFL and owners aren't hiring him. That's just the way it is. On the flip side, he landed some work with Nike - it's not as if it came through his ability on the field.
 

Moxie

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I don't really have much of an issue with his protesting. I couldn't really care less about it... even though I think he should do that in his own time rather than on duty for his team. He's not a victim here... but it's plain to see why the NFL and owners aren't hiring him. That's just the way it is. On the flip side, he landed some work with Nike - it's not as if it came through his ability on the field.
There are a lot of issues in play, though, you have to admit. Lots of black players working for the good of white owners and majority white fan-base. Kaepernick had a platform and he used it. I don't have an issue with that, either. Sure, he's landed on his feet, I guess, with Nike, who seems to be doing OK with the choice. That's a slightly cynical view of an outcome based on a choice that actually started from a real place. He did open a can of worms with the NFL that does have a brand problem, and part of it has to do with the head injuries issue, too, as @Jelenafan pointed out. Another place where the rift between factions in the US is showing itself. In that sense, I'll agree that it's still interesting.
 

DarthFed

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I find it astonishing that we're still talking about this. The man sat/took a knee during the national anthem as a protest in solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement. 3 years ago. And I'm surprised especially at folks like @britbox who are not even American still exercised about it. A lot of good points made above, but I do think Kaepernick might have found another NFL home when he was 27 had he not been essentially "black-balled." I have no problem with him saying he's made his point and doesn't need to protest during the anthem anymore, but I guess the ship has sailed for him, now. I also don't remember exactly when sporting events in this country got conflated with big displays of patriotism. Why is that necessary? And how is taking a knee during the national anthem a direct insult to our troops? Way overly politicized. And I agree with @mrzz that the PC police are working in a different direction on this one, and some people don't see that.

It's quite a bit more recent than that Mox. Kaep started kneeling in the preseason before last season. The CTE is the much bigger issue and will end up being the death of the game, it's well on its way.

I agree the kneeling became way bigger than it should have been on both sides. I think it's a completely misguided protest but it doesn't bother me at all. It's not surprising Trump seized the opportunity to stick it to the NFL and blow it up worse than it should've been. With Trump any attention is a positive and he's had a bone to pick with the NFL for a long time as well. It will remain a big deal but Kaep isn't in the league because of the politics and the fact he isn't a starting caliber QB anymore.

Also I find it funny you are criticizing BB for giving an opinion. Only Americans should be able to comment on the kneeling issue? Or is it just that he disagrees with you?
 

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It will remain a big deal but Kaep isn't in the league because of the politics and the fact he isn't a starting caliber QB anymore.

Not all QB's on team rosters are considered starting caliber QB's.

I think the red herring is the argument that Kap can't play in the NFL, nor good enough to fill a roster spot. . We don't know because he wasn't given the opportunity for several years. Nick Foley and others sucked as starting QB's and somehow landed on their feet with other teams. It wasn't as if they could never recover from a poor series of games, even a poor season. Hell even Tebow got various more opportunities to be on team rosters when he really sucked.

If every starting QB that was struggling with their current team was benched and deemed never to be picked up again, well there would be a very small pool of NFL QB's left.

With Kap I do think it's truly only because of the politics., PERIOD. It is what it is, I get it, but I roll my eyes when it's brought up he wasn't picked up because of questionable QB ability. Sorry but that doesn't pass muster nor the plausibility argument. Alot worse QB's are on the rosters of the NFL and Brady himself said he was good enough to be picked up by someone.

He is and will remain the poster child to all the other players to toe the line. It's damn effective as his career was essentially shut down and all the other NFL players can't ignore that.
 

DarthFed

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Not all QB's on team rosters are considered starting caliber QB's.

I think the red herring is the argument that Kap can't play in the NFL, nor good enough to fill a roster spot. . We don't know because he wasn't given the opportunity for several years. Nick Foley and others sucked as starting QB's and somehow landed on their feet with other teams. It wasn't as if they could never recover from a poor series of games, even a poor season. Hell even Tebow got various more opportunities to be on team rosters when he really sucked.

If every starting QB that was struggling with their current team was benched and deemed never to be picked up again, well there would be a very small pool of NFL QB's left.

With Kap I do think it's truly only because of the politics., PERIOD. It is what it is, I get it, but I roll my eye when it's brought up he wasn't picked up because of questionable QB ability. Sorry but that doesn't pass muster nor the plausibility argument. Alot worse QB's are on the rosters of the NFL and Brady himself said he was good enough to be picked up by someone.

He is and will remain the poster child to all the other players to toe the line. It's damn effective as his career was essentially shut down and all the other NFL players can't ignore that.

I mean the way I look at it is simple. Without the kneeling and being the face of the NFL protests he'd still be in the league. But if he had t slipped badly before the protests he'd be in the league anyways. The top 15 or even 20 starting QB's in the league could do a lot worse than kneel for the anthem and they'd still be playing. It was the combo of the politics and his poor play that did him in. Remove either one and he'd still be in the league and probably for many more years.
 

Jelenafan

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I mean the way I look at it is simple. Without the kneeling and being the face of the NFL protests he'd still be in the league. But if he had t slipped badly before the protests he'd be in the league anyways. The top 15 or even 20 starting QB's in the league could do a lot worse than kneel for the anthem and they'd still be playing. It was the combo of the politics and his poor play that did him in. Remove either one and he'd still be in the league and probably for many more years.

I look at it even more simpler:

Why is Kap not on any NFL roster?

It’s the politics.

Period.
 

DarthFed

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Yes he'd be in the league without the politics but he'd also be in the league if he didn't suck for a couple years right before he started kneeling...I mean it's really as simple as that. The owners aren't blackballing a star quarterback.
 
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Jelenafan

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Yes he'd be in the league without the politics but he'd also be in the league if he didn't suck for a couple years right before he started kneeling...I mean it's really as simple as that. The owners aren't blackballing a star quarterback.

Isn't it ironic that about 5 years ago after he got the Niners to the SB Kap seemed on the verge of being the new modern "look" of the NFL quarterback, with his tats, mixed heritage, mobility, etc. There was such buzz and excitement around him as the next evolution of the NFL QB.

Who would have thunk?
 
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mrzz

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I see you guys complain of what you call "far right" leaders and laugh or cry depending on my mood, because here on Brazil we are on the verge of having a president -- to use a category which is not subjective -- much more explicit than the likes of Trump. It is not (a part of) his supporters, it is himself who openly claims that not only all civilians should carry automatic guns but to use them to eradicate crime in the country. He also openly defends "gay cure" and things close to forceful hospitalization in that case.

The symbol of his campaign is to use both hands to mimic a machine gun. The official explanation is: we will open fire on all of you. That is what the guy say out loud. Not the most extreme part of his supporters, the guy himself.

A friend of mine, college professor who never used violence in his life, who is openly against the guy (so am I, for that matter), started having his car followed and yesterday was forced out of the road. 17 year old female students, just for protesting (protesting things I don't agree with, but it does not matter) where punched in the face by some version of skin heads (wearing the T-shirts of that piece of shit and with guns on their hips), and ended up in hospital with head trauma. Those are people I personally know, not internet stories.

The name of the giant piece of shit is Bolsonaro -- even Stephen Fry made some videos about him, in one he called him the greatest... I don't remember, greatest something-appalling.

The few here who ever bothered to read my posts know that I am far from a "leftist", but this guy is one fucking absurd extreme. The story is longer but I won't bother anymore. Just venting out the frustration. Those fucking supporters are getting more and more vocal and aggressive -- found a bunch of them on the subway, it is becoming way to easy to end up getting physical with those people.
 

Horsa

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I see you guys complain of what you call "far right" leaders and laugh or cry depending on my mood, because here on Brazil we are on the verge of having a president -- to use a category which is not subjective -- much more explicit than the likes of Trump. It is not (a part of) his supporters, it is himself who openly claims that not only all civilians should carry automatic guns but to use them to eradicate crime in the country. He also openly defends "gay cure" and things close to forceful hospitalization in that case.

The symbol of his campaign is to use both hands to mimic a machine gun. The official explanation is: we will open fire on all of you. That is what the guy say out loud. Not the most extreme part of his supporters, the guy himself.

A friend of mine, college professor who never used violence in his life, who is openly against the guy (so am I, for that matter), started having his car followed and yesterday was forced out of the road. 17 year old female students, just for protesting (protesting things I don't agree with, but it does not matter) where punched in the face by some version of skin heads (wearing the T-shirts of that piece of shit and with guns on their hips), and ended up in hospital with head trauma. Those are people I personally know, not internet stories.

The name of the giant piece of shit is Bolsonaro -- even Stephen Fry made some videos about him, in one he called him the greatest... I don't remember, greatest something-appalling.

The few here who ever bothered to read my posts know that I am far from a "leftist", but this guy is one fucking absurd extreme. The story is longer but I won't bother anymore. Just venting out the frustration. Those fucking supporters are getting more and more vocal and aggressive -- found a bunch of them on the subway, it is becoming way to easy to end up getting physical with those people.

I can understand how you must be feeling. What type of idiot would vote this type of moron into power? I don't only think that his ideas are disgusting but that someone like that in power is dangerous. It's scary to think that people have to live in places where people like him are in charge. Using guns to eradicate crime is only going to shift crime from all different kinds of crime being committed to just 1 type of crime. People shouldn't be forced to go vigilante & take the law into their own hands. Gun crime is still a crime but obviously this guy doesn't think like that.
 

mrzz

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Just to update you guys on what is happening here...

... close friends receiving death threats.
 

Chris Koziarz

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mrzz

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What a mess in Brazil. Another t-man getting the top job in politics:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ffaf6d422aa_story.html?utm_term=.92db741161da
What's going on, mrzz? Why did your people vote for Jair Bolsonaro? Another brexit? A "Brazilian exit into the politics of insanity"?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...brazil-presidential-candidate-trump-parallels

@Chris Koziarz , please see my above post for some reference. I confess I did not read those articles in its entirety (as I know pretty well what is going on) -- but I will tell you this: the "Brazilian Trump" epithet is wrong, as it is waaaay too light. He would be something like the Brazilian Franco -- he is anacronic to that level. I was reading yesterday Freud's "Group Psychology and The Analysis of The Ego" -- there you have it. People chose to follow a leader who publicly supports street justice killings, forceful hospitalization of gay people, so on and so forth. I could describe things here for hours... I have people in my family who fell in to this trap. For them, now I am a "dirty communist" (the funny side is that I am, economically speaking, an old fashioned liberal, while they hardly can spell the word liberal). My (truly) communists friends, for them, should be killed, or jailed at best. It is crazy at that level.

[P.S.] Edited the last phrase as basic spelling mistakes changed the meaning of it -- don't know why in the world I inserted an apostrophe there before. It was election day here yesterday and I was as worried as it can be, so typed in hurry. At least we get a second and final round, bad thing is that the alternative is quite problematic on their own way.
 
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Moxie

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Thinking of you @mrzz in these troubling times for Brazil. Thanks for keeping us updated.