What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[britbox]

There is simply no way that Kaepernick doesn't make a team but for this controversy, so your cutting the mustard comment makes no sense

Doesn't matter who brought him up. Doesn't make him any less African American. Simply not relevant. In any case he was protesting police killing African Americans with no accountability. We can debate his method of protest, but let's not pretend we don't know what the protest is about. We're not retarded...

He wouldn't likely start anywhere and who would want that baggage with a second string quarterback?

 

[Federberg]

He wouldn't likely start anywhere and who would want that baggage with a second string quarterback?

that's an entirely different argument mate. I forgot you slip and slide like Money Mayweather

 

[britbox]

EU votes to begin punitive measures against Hungary by a landslide.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/09/eu-lawmakers-disciplinary-action-hungary-180912112849564.html


The unprecedented vote could allow Hungary's EU voting rights to be stripped.

No surprises, was always on the cards. Reminded me of that clueless Hungarian white supremacist fella who posted on here for a bit and insisted it would never happen.

 

[Horsa]

EU votes to begin punitive measures against Hungary by a landslide.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/09/eu-lawmakers-disciplinary-action-hungary-180912112849564.html


The unprecedented vote could allow Hungary's EU voting rights to be stripped.

No surprises, was always on the cards. Reminded me of that clueless Hungarian white supremacist fella who posted on here for a bit and insisted it would never happen.

He was always saying how good the E.U. was. He wouldn't listen when you told him the truth. He only heard what he wanted to hear & always had to be right or everyone else was stupid. He wouldn't answer questions he didn't want to answer & told you how not to respond so you didn't have the fullest answer for him as you'd already give him the rest of the answers. He purposefully mis-interpreted what you said. Some of the things he said would have made me laugh if they weren't said in such an abrupt way as they were absolutely ridiculous. He tried to brain-wash everyone into believing what he said & if that didn't work everyone was stupid. He was all for Scottish & Welsh independence but not for Britain's independence from the E.U. I was racist for wanting out of the E.U. What a laugh! What he didn't understand is that both Scotland & Wales benefit by being part of Britain without too many rules & don't pay for it whereas Britain has to pay to stay in the E.U., most of us don't think we're getting value for our money & then we're being ruled too & told who to let in our country. The E.U. got too authoritarian in my opinion. I reckon he'll be cursing now but he won't change his mind about the E.U. or rather he will but just for so long.

 

[Moxie]

Trump denying that nearly 3000 Americans died in Puerto Rico as a direct cause of Hurricane Maria. This is not only delusional, it's unconscionable. He's so worried that he might be blamed.

 

[britbox]

Trump denying that nearly 3000 Americans died in Puerto Rico as a direct cause of Hurricane Maria. This is not only delusional, it's unconscionable. He's so worried that he might be blamed.

Even the CNN report doesn't claim 3,000 deaths as a direct cause of the hurricane. The number is based on a survey and deaths associated with the storm. The truth is probably somewhere in between... but in any event, Trump's handling of the Puerto Rico crisis has been pretty lame.

 

[Moxie]

Even the CNN report doesn't claim 3,000 deaths as a direct cause of the hurricane. The number is based on a survey and deaths associated with the storm. The truth is probably somewhere in between... but in any event, Trump's handling of the Puerto Rico crisis has been pretty lame.

No, I think that's precisely what CNN is claiming. I said "nearly." They say 2,975.

 

[britbox]

No, I think that's precisely what CNN is claiming. I said "nearly." They say 2,975.

That's based on a peoples survey though rather than an official cause of death though isn't it?

Anyhow, regardless of the numbers, it's plain to see that the Puerto Rico stuff was badly handled by POTUS.

 

[Moxie]

That's based on a peoples survey though rather than an official cause of death though isn't it?

Anyhow, regardless of the numbers, it's plain to see that the Puerto Rico stuff was badly handled by POTUS.

No, there was a government study done. Part of it was, I think, a comparison of deaths normally in that span of time compared to last year. But I will tell you, anecdotally: I was there for 7 days, 3 weeks after the hurricane. I saw a coffin before I left the airport. I was doing an interview in a small, poor town and they told us that a woman up the hill died that day due to lack of electricity to her life-supporting equipment, and we were in another town, about a mile square, where they told us 18 people from that town alone were missing since the storm. One man told us he actually saw a neighbor swept from her balcony by the water, and has not seen her again. We were not inclined to believe the government count of 64 dead, and neither was anyone else on the island, as far as our conversations went. You're completely right that Trump has handled the US Gov't part of it really, really poorly. And on the brink of Florence hitting North Carolina, he felt the need to trot out how well he'd dealt with Maria, after not mentioning it for most of the past year, and to recount the dead there down to nearly nothing. Appalling, and incredibly self-serving.

 

[Jelenafan]

He wouldn't likely start anywhere and who would want that baggage with a second string quarterback?

Quite a few people even among the NFL have opined he could be starting QB on at least a dozen teams.

As to baggage, can think of quite a few active first string NFL players whose morally reprehensible and even criminal/violent behavior wouldn’t qualify them as town dog catcher.

 

[mrzz]

He wouldn't likely start anywhere and who would want that baggage with a second string quarterback?

BB, honestly, that is the part I don't understand. I know that given all that happened, the guy has a "baggage". But, let's focus on exactly what the guy did (at least as far as I know, there might be more to it than I am informed).

The guy decided to kneel during national anthems to protest police killings. That's all. That's all his "baggage". Even if you disagree with him, c'mon, it is not a big deal.

On one hand, I agree that a good deal of people interpret quite wrong -- or use it for their own political agendas -- the question of police violence against black people. But you can still protest the killings, you can still say "I want to live in a different world", no matter how you analyze the episodes and -- much more importantly -- the bigger picture.

Now comes the second point. I really do not understand why people say that taking a knee during the anthem is such an offense and/or a disrespect. The first time I saw it I actually thought "that's a smart way to protest". I really would like to know what is exactly offensive in taking a knee. I read some people say that the guy should protest by staying in the locker room -- which is one of the most idiotic things I ever read/heard. So, in order to protest you must disappear.... (in a few cases, it might work, when everyone expects to see you. In this one, where you are one among two hundred other players, it obviously doesn't ).

It is obvious that people doesn't want the guy to protest. No matter what he does, people will complain. If I was him, I would have changed my way to protest, just to prove this point. I would have invented some other kind of body language -- something like putting two hands on his heart, one for his country, the other for the victims, for example -- and publicize it properly. I am pretty sure that people would find a way to make it offensive.

Obviously, any protest will be always politically used. That's part of the deal. In a sane society, it should never be reason enough for silencing someone. I wonder where are all the freedom of speech defenders in this case.

 

[britbox]

Quite a few people even among the NFL have opined he could be starting QB on at least a dozen teams.

As to baggage, can think of quite a few active first string NFL players whose morally reprehensible and even criminal/violent behavior wouldn’t qualify them as town dog catcher.

A dozen teams would start Kaepernick? I doubt it. The guy hasn't played a down in years.

 

[britbox]

BB, honestly, that is the part I don't understand. I know that given all that happened, the guy has a "baggage". But, let's focus on exactly what the guy did (at least as far as I know, there might be more to it than I am informed).

The guy decided to kneel during national anthems to protest police killings. That's all. That's all his "baggage". Even if you disagree with him, c'mon, it is not a big deal.

On one hand, I agree that a good deal of people interpret quite wrong -- or use it for their own political agendas -- the question of police violence against black people. But you can still protest the killings, you can still say "I want to live in a different world", no matter how you analyze the episodes and -- much more importantly -- the bigger picture.

Now comes the second point. I really do not understand why people say that taking a knee during the anthem is such an offense and/or a disrespect. The first time I saw it I actually thought "that's a smart way to protest". I really would like to know what is exactly offensive in taking a knee. I read some people say that the guy should protest by staying in the locker room -- which is one of the most idiotic things I ever read/heard. So, in order to protest you must disappear.... (in a few cases, it might work, when everyone expects to see you. In this one, where you are one among two hundred other players, it obviously doesn't ).

It is obvious that people doesn't want the guy to protest. No matter what he does, people will complain. If I was him, I would have changed my way to protest, just to prove this point. I would have invented some other kind of body language -- something like putting two hands on his heart, one for his country, the other for the victims, for example -- and publicize it properly. I am pretty sure that people would find a way to make it offensive.

Obviously, any protest will be always politically used. That's part of the deal. In a sane society, it should never be reason enough for silencing someone. I wonder where are all the freedom of speech defenders in this case.

@mrzz - the NFL is a business, not a Woodstock get together. First of all - the guy is at work.... in a very well paid job, watched by millions of people ("the customer") - a large proportion of whom took offence at his actions. The NFL franchises are run by hardnosed businessmen and the league is run as a brand.

Kaepernick is free to protest as much as he wants. I'd suggest that he's better doing it in his own time not in work hours. The NFL brand has been hurt by these protests - a lot of fans are pissed. That's an actual fact.

So, that's the baggage....

If an NFL franchise gives Kaepernick a job, it will likely be as a second string quarterback. The media scrutiny on the hire will make owners and GMs wonder if it is worth the hassle.

Kaepernick is not a victim - he actually cut short his own contract with the 49ers.

 

[Jelenafan]

@mrzz - the NFL is a business, not a Woodstock get together. First of all - the guy is at work.... in a very well paid job, watched by millions of people ("the customer") - a large proportion of whom took offence at his actions. The NFL franchises are run by hardnosed businessmen and the league is run as a brand.

Kaepernick is free to protest as much as he wants. I'd suggest that he's better doing it in his own time not in work hours. The NFL brand has been hurt by these protests - a lot of fans are pissed. That's an actual fact.

So, that's the baggage....

If an NFL franchise gives Kaepernick a job, it will likely be as a second string quarterback. The media scrutiny on the hire will make owners and GMs wonder if it is worth the hassle.

Kaepernick is not a victim - he actually cut short his own contract with the 49ers.

Not the first player to do that in that type of scenario; in hindsight I don’t think he expected to be completely blackballed by all the teams.

Pro football has a lot of issues these days, ratings have defined across the board for most sports these days, and the other issues including the long term health dangers of playing, off field conduct of some players, oversaturation of the market, etc.

I agree it’s a brand. Growing up I don’t recall sporting events being the Uber patriotic displays that they are now, but it is what is. At the same time it is a brand composed principally of Black athetes and even Brands can’t remain always in hermetically sealed bubbles.

It’s ironic that Kaepernick apparently decided to kneel because he thought it would be more respectful than sitting down but how that morphed to disrespecting veterans as well...

My ambivalence on the whole situation is partially because he’s more than hinted he’d work something out with whatever team signed him; ie not kneeling, he’s already made his point, but of course a “ lesson “ has to be made and NFL can’t risk any more scrutiny apparently from the worst transgression ever so he must be barred permanently. I guess rapists, women beaters, dog abusers, tax evaders, etc harm the Brand less and the media scrutiny of hiring and starring them is less harmful.

My own gut is if Kap was able to help a team win or was even just second string the hoopla would die out fairly quickly and the NFL wouldn’t implode but we’ll never know.

As to hard nosed businessmen, that’s another story ( Jerry Jones anyone)

 

[britbox]

Not the first player to do that in that type of scenario; in hindsight I don’t think he expected to be completely blackballed by all the teams.

Pro football has a lot of issues these days, ratings have defined across the board for most sports these days, and the other issues including the long term health dangers of playing, off field conduct of some players, oversaturation of the market, etc.

I agree it’s a brand. Growing up I don’t recall sporting events being the Uber patriotic displays that they are now, but it is what is. At the same time it is a brand composed principally of Black athetes and even Brands can’t remain always in hermetically sealed bubbles.

It’s ironic that Kaepernick apparently decided to kneel because he thought it would be more respectful than sitting down but how that morphed to disrespecting veterans as well...

My ambivalence on the whole situation is partially because he’s more than hinted he’d work something out with whatever team signed him; ie not kneeling, he’s already made his point, but of course a “ lesson “ has to be made and NFL can’t risk any more scrutiny apparently from the worst transgression ever so he must be barred permanently. I guess rapists, women beaters, dog abusers, tax evaders, etc harm the Brand less and the media scrutiny of hiring and starring them is less harmful.

My own gut is if Kap was able to help a team win or was even just second string the hoopla would die out fairly quickly and the NFL wouldn’t implode but we’ll never know.

As to hard nosed businessmen, that’s another story ( Jerry Jones anyone)

\

Agree totally with the bolded! At the end of the day it comes down to money. Kap ain't going to find a team anytime soon. NFL is a business and a Kap doesn't fit with the brand and their sponsors (The US military have a sponsorship deal)

 

[mrzz]

@mrzz - the NFL is a business, not a Woodstock get together. First of all - the guy is at work.... in a very well paid job, watched by millions of people ("the customer") - a large proportion of whom took offence at his actions. The NFL franchises are run by hardnosed businessmen and the league is run as a brand.

Kaepernick is free to protest as much as he wants. I'd suggest that he's better doing it in his own time not in work hours. The NFL brand has been hurt by these protests - a lot of fans are pissed. That's an actual fact.

So, that's the baggage....

If an NFL franchise gives Kaepernick a job, it will likely be as a second string quarterback. The media scrutiny on the hire will make owners and GMs wonder if it is worth the hassle.

Kaepernick is not a victim - he actually cut short his own contract with the 49ers.

Thanks for the answer, BB. I got most of your points (even if I do not agree with it 100%). But... yes, he is at work, but he is not throwing footballs when the anthem is being played. He is as free to protest at that time than as in any other. The point is, he is free. I am sorry, but for me the "moral police" in this case is exactly equivalent to the PC brigade: you either behave as we want, or you are an racist/traitor (pick your choice).

Off course, this mix up of sports, politics and commercial activities is disgusting. I find it loathsome to see a company pretend that its products correspond to a given set of moral/political values (even if I may agree with them. In fact, specially if I agree with them). It is as hypocritical as it gets. If someone can prove me that Nike is willing to lose market share over this, I may reconsider, but I really, really, really doubt it.

And, yes, I agree that Kaepernick is not a victim, in a general sense at least.

 

[DarthFed]

Quite a few people even among the NFL have opined he could be starting QB on at least a dozen teams.

As to baggage, can think of quite a few active first string NFL players whose morally reprehensible and even criminal/violent behavior wouldn’t qualify them as town dog catcher.

No way he could start for a dozen teams right now. He could maybe start for a couple teams and they'd be among the worst teams in the league because he just isn't good enough anymore. He definitely is good enough to be a backup and he is not in the league because of the political reasons as Federberg mentioned. But at the same time If he was still an above average starting QB he'd have a job for sure. NFL owners won't risk a lot to have a backup QB who hasn't played in a couple years.

Even though I don't agree with how he and other players went about the protests I do give the guy serious credit for mostly staying the course with it because it has cost him many millions of dollars. And the reason I say "mostly" is that he supposedly has said in the recent past that he would stop kneeling if he was back in the league. Though looking at articles now it does say those were false rumors (that he would stand).

 

[Jelenafan]

No way he could start for a dozen teams right now. He could maybe start for a couple teams and they'd be among the worst teams in the league because he just isn't good enough anymore. He definitely is good enough to be a backup and he is not in the league because of the political reasons as Federberg mentioned. But at the same time If he was still an above average starting QB he'd have a job for sure. NFL owners won't risk a lot to have a backup QB who hasn't played in a couple years.

Even though I don't agree with how he and other players went about the protests I do give the guy serious credit for mostly staying the course with it because it has cost him many millions of dollars. And the reason I say "mostly" is that he supposedly has said in the recent past that he would stop kneeling if he was back in the league.

I stand corrected , you're right, he couldn't start now. At the time he was blackballed he could have starred for a dozen teams at least, but yet, it's now become a chicken and an egg situation that that the longer he no longer is active, the cover is that he isn't good enough anymore because he's rusty. Though I find that argument specious at best. How Long iwas Michael Vick out before he got a chance to comeback?

As to whether being an above average QB Kap would have been signed by someone else regardless, I have my doubts. Well lets just say a Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers perhaps, but his persona is different then theirs and other factors come into play beyond playing ability and let's leave it at that.

While Kap led the Niners to the SB, I do agree that once Coach Harbaugh left he regressed as far as performance as the starting QB of the Niners. Those things happen with a lot of QB's where the team is no longer the right fit or vice versa. However if you look at his actual numbers, arguably he could have started for a lot of teams even then. QB's bouncing around and being revived somewhere else is nothing new, best example I can think of is of course Nick Foley and in past years Jim Plunkett.

As to no longer "kneeling" I don't get the feeling that protest was ever intended to be something permanent;y etched in stone. The NFL now has tightened their policy on such matters, (I believe they actually had something beforehand but a real life situation had never arisen to test it) Kap was trying to make a point about the treatment of the Black community, agree or disagree, with his process but I do think things were actually was calming down until the POTUS almost single handedly decided to make it his cause celebre.

 

[DarthFed]

I stand corrected , you're right, he couldn't start now. At the time he was blackballed he could have starred for a dozen teams at least, but yet, it's now become a chicken and an egg situation that that the longer he no longer is active, the cover is that he isn't good enough anymore because he's rusty. Though I find that argument specious at best. How Long iwas Michael Vick out before he got a chance to comeback?

As to whether being an above average QB Kap would have been signed by someone else regardless, I have my doubts. Well lets just say a Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers perhaps, but his persona is different then theirs and other factors come into play beyond playing ability and let's leave it at that.

While Kap led the Niners to the SB, I do agree that once Coach Harbaugh left he regressed as far as performance as the starting QB of the Niners. Those things happen with a lot of QB's where the team is no longer the right fit or vice versa. However if you look at his actual numbers, arguably he could have started for a lot of teams even then. QB's bouncing around and being revived somewhere else is nothing new, best example I can think of is of course Nick Foley and in past years Jim Plunkett.

As to no longer "kneeling" I don't get the feeling that protest was ever intended to be something permanent;y etched in stone. The NFL now has tightened their policy on such matters, (I believe they actually had something beforehand but a real life situation had never arisen to test it) Kap was trying to make a point about the treatment of the Black community, agree or disagree, with his process but I do think things were actually was calming down until the POTUS almost single handedly decided to make it his cause celebre.

He had slipped to being one of the worst starters in the league before he started kneeling. Trust me, if Brady, Rodgers or even someone like Alex Smith started kneeling they'd still have jobs without questions. Vick was one of the top QB's in the league before he went to jail so that's apples and oranges. Kaep brings baggage and he simply isn't good enough anymore to make up for it.

 

[Moxie]

I find it astonishing that we're still talking about this. The man sat/took a knee during the national anthem as a protest in solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement. 3 years ago. And I'm surprised especially at folks like @britbox who are not even American still exercised about it. A lot of good points made above, but I do think Kaepernick might have found another NFL home when he was 27 had he not been essentially "black-balled." I have no problem with him saying he's made his point and doesn't need to protest during the anthem anymore, but I guess the ship has sailed for him, now. I also don't remember exactly when sporting events in this country got conflated with big displays of patriotism. Why is that necessary? And how is taking a knee during the national anthem a direct insult to our troops? Way overly politicized. And I agree with @mrzz that the PC police are working in a different direction on this one, and some people don't see that.