What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

Murat Baslamisli

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calitennis127 said:
shawnbm said:
It is despicable and an embarrassment to our nation, murat. It angers me so that hoodlums take the opportunity to trash people's businesses and homes--their lives--as an alleged "protest" to the system doing what it is supposed to do--MANY WHILE COVERING THEIR FACES AS THEY COMMIT THEIR ACTS OF "PROTEST"!!!!!


. Four hundred blacks can be shot by other blacks. Doesn't matter. One black is shot by a white and it is a world news story. Why? Because it can be used to reinforce the narrative of supposed post-Christian moral progress.

Cali, black on black crime is not unique. Crimes are mostly committed by people who are known to the victims. In fact a good %85 of white people are killed by other white people. It is only a bit higher among blacks, but not unique.
 

calitennis127

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1972Murat said:
calitennis127 said:
shawnbm said:
It is despicable and an embarrassment to our nation, murat. It angers me so that hoodlums take the opportunity to trash people's businesses and homes--their lives--as an alleged "protest" to the system doing what it is supposed to do--MANY WHILE COVERING THEIR FACES AS THEY COMMIT THEIR ACTS OF "PROTEST"!!!!!


. Four hundred blacks can be shot by other blacks. Doesn't matter. One black is shot by a white and it is a world news story. Why? Because it can be used to reinforce the narrative of supposed post-Christian moral progress.

Cali, black on black crime is not unique. Crimes are mostly committed by people who are known to the victims. In fact a good %85 of white people are killed by other white people. It is only a bit higher among blacks, but not unique.

That's not the point. The point is that the media wants to create this narrative of white police officers being the main perpetrators of homicides against black people, and there are literally thousands more cases of black-on-black crime. The media are not stupid and are aware of this. So why do they not acknowledge it?

Fundamentally, it is because they subsrcibe to a personal religion of antiracism that has more to do with mental fairytales to make themselves feel good about themselves, within themselves, as opposed to acknowledging reality and actually solving social problems. It's better to know that you condemn the sin of racism than to object to the immorality of murder. That is the road to eternal salvation if you are a reporter for ABC or an American newspaper.
 

Murat Baslamisli

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calitennis127 said:
1972Murat said:
calitennis127 said:
. Four hundred blacks can be shot by other blacks. Doesn't matter. One black is shot by a white and it is a world news story. Why? Because it can be used to reinforce the narrative of supposed post-Christian moral progress.

Cali, black on black crime is not unique. Crimes are mostly committed by people who are known to the victims. In fact a good %85 of white people are killed by other white people. It is only a bit higher among blacks, but not unique.

That's not the point. The point is that the media wants to create this narrative of white police officers being the main perpetrators of homicides against black people, and there are literally thousands more cases of black-on-black crime. The media are not stupid and are aware of this. So why do they not acknowledge it?

I do not disagree with that ...But there is also the other side, the black perspective that needs being heard. The media also ignores that part. What is that part? When black on black crime happens , as long as there is a suspect, someone almost ALWAYS goes to jail. Do you know how many times in the last 4-5 years a case that involved someone dead has NOT passed the grand jury stage? I will give you one guess.

There is a different legal system ( not justice system, that does not exist in North America, we have a legal system) for different people and that is sad.
 

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I saw this, Murat. There have been moves for the last five decades, since the mutual excommunications were lifted the sixties. Pope Benedict made headway and hopefully Francis will too. Some people on both sides are opposed, and there are sticking blocks which may not be overcome, which include papal infallibility, nationalism in the Orthodox churches, etc. You read good and bad on both sides. I think eventually it'll happen, but there'll be holdouts on either side. Perhaps an ecumenical council could be needed, but even on this, it would be tough.

Still, things are much improved and moving in the right direction. I love the Orthodox spirituality and rites, their saints are holy and wise, and all of us together are stronger than apart...
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Here is the problem with the Grand Jury system when cops are involved: No prosecutor is ever going to push hard against a guy he goes to battle with shoulder to shoulder every day. It is not about blacks, whites, etc...The system is flawed. When a cop is involved, someone outside the system has to prosecute the case. There is no way the same standards are being applied to cops that are applied to your everyday perp. No perp ever gets out of it in the Grand Jury stage. Cops do.
 

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There is something to what murat states above, but consider the alternative. The majority of indictments for crimes is based on what is called an information--the prosecutor decides whether to proceed forward with criminal charges and then there is an arraignment and probable cause hearing before a judge. The decision to file an information or not is the unsung sometimes heroic task of a prosecutor--there is immense power rested in one person, as opposed to twelve in a grand jury. It too is fraught with polemic and controversy. Imagine if the prosecutor did NOT submit this to a grand jury (Ferguson or Garner in NYC) and decided the evidence was not sufficient to meet probable cause? It would be much worse, IMHO. Then again, there are cases where the information is filed on flimsy evidence and court time and resources are wasted as the case drags on and it gets thrown out by a judge on a pre-trial motion or the jury returns a not guilty verdict on a matter that never should have been filed in the first place--but the pressure and expectation stirred up by the media causes such a case to be filed.

People will riot and protest regardless of the result--for some, they are like fascists or communists. The verdict is what they think it is regardless of evidence. Look at Ferguson--the idiots who claimed his hands were up and that he was shot in the back are completely full of it. The physical evidence is overwhelming in showing he was shot while tussling with the officer at the police car door and later was killed while moving towards the officer--not one shot was through the back!!! Then five or six black folk (all the alleged eyewitnesses were black other than the officer) say they could not understand why the young man charged at the officer--which is consistent with the blood trail. You got guys with arrest records changing their story three times and it is no wonder no criminal charges were filed.

Now look at the Cleveland shooting of the 12 year old. If you are going to charge an officer with a crime like murder or manslaughter, you have to look at what he was dealing with on that call. The dispatcher INEXPLICABLY failed to tell the officer that the caller had said it might be a toy gun or looked like a toy gun. Instead, the officer hears of a black youth "who looks to be about twenty" pointing a gun at people on a playground. Now, with that being the call, what officer would not show up ready to draw a weapon and be ready for a problem? This young boy, unfortunately, looked far older--just like young Trayvon Martin in that Zimmerman case a couple years ago. At any rate, that is a tragedy and although a civil suit will be a winner, I question whether it was criminal based on the evidence that has come to light. Yet--and here is the Martin connection--the media continues to stir the pot by posting youthful pictures of the boy like they did with Trayvon years ago. Trayvon Martin looked like a man when he got into it with Zimmerman, not some child. Neither did this tragically killed boy in Cleveland, according to the bystander who phoned in the matter to dispatch. That has to be taken into account when you judge putting away an officer for life or many years. What frosts me is when the media--in constantly trying to whip up the populace for their ratings--intentionally mislead people by showing different photographs than what victims looked like on the day of the incident or choose to obfuscate key facts. Why else would they choose to use a picture the parents gave them from three or four years earlier and constantly post it as if the cop killed an eight year old?!?!?!

At the end of the day, many of these officers are going to lose (and their employers) in civil suits, but criminal charges are difficult, sometimes impossible. I personally feel that there could have been a criminal negligent homicide charge against the officers in Staten Island--not for the choke-hold take-down, that was permissible under the circumstances--but for not immediately responding to his distress calls about not being able to breathe. They ought to have immediately rendered aid, stopped keeping him down and helped him. It takes only a minute to get into serious trouble. That was saddening to watch play out.
 

Murat Baslamisli

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I do not disagree with you in anyway Shawnbm. My only problem is the fox guarding the henhouse.

When there is a dead person, the cases ALWAYS passes the Grand Jury phase, except when cops are involved. There is a fundamental unfairness to the whole thing there. I am not saying the officers in these case deserve to be locked up forever. All I am saying is at least there has to be a trial and the families have their day in court. Because the alternative is what is happening now. Which is not good for anyone.

If you think it is too costly, just pass some laws to cut down on the endless frivolous lawsuits that tie up the courts time and resources everyday. When a life has been taken, it deserves at least to be discussed in a court of law.
 

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Anybody been following the hostage crisis in Sydney, Australia? Disconcerting stuff. 14 hours the hostages have been trapped in there. :(

Obviously, it's a politically motivated situation, but there's no idea if this perpetuator is part of an Islamist militant group or acting on his own accord (i.e., as a lone wolf). This man clearly wants to make a statement, however - electing to hold up a cafe that happens to be near the Channel 7 media studios in Sydney's CDB is, of course, a deliberate choice, so I don't think he has any sporadic malicious intent, insofar as wanting to murder innocent people for the sake of it.

I hope nobody dies or gets seriously injured from this. It is terrorism, but to what extent is unknown at the moment.
 

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The guy is an Islamist, no?

I was going to post about this too, but it's difficult to say what's happening, other than it's an utter shock and terror for all the people affected. There's a huge change happening in the world and fear of terrorists is only going to increase. It begs a lot of tough questions but I suppose until we know more, this isn't the time to ask them...
 

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The NYT's coverage of the Sydney hostage situation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/world/asia/sydney-australia-hostages.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

The Daily Beast:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/14/dozens-held-in-hostage-crisis-in-sydney-amid-fears-of-islamic-terrorism.html

"The flag is the most striking symbol of the drama. The black banner has white Arabic lettering that appears to be the Shahada, a central tenet of Islam that states: “There is no god but the God, Mohammed is the messenger of God.” The banner might perhaps be the flag of the Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir (Party of Liberation), according to a tweet from the Sydney Morning Herald. The group is not known for espousing violence in the manner of al Qaeda or ISIS, but it does support the establishment of a Caliphate uniting Muslims around the world."
 

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Kieran said:
The guy is an Islamist, no?

I was going to post about this too, but it's difficult to say what's happening, other than it's an utter shock and terror for all the people affected. There's a huge change happening in the world and fear of terrorists is only going to increase. It begs a lot of tough questions but I suppose until we know more, this isn't the time to ask them...

Yeah, he is an Islamist, but at this stage, there's no knowing if he is affiliated with any group or simply acting as a lone wolf.
 

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Are you in Sydney, Matt? Do you know that cafe?
 

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Kieran said:
Are you in Sydney, Matt? Do you know that cafe?

Nope, in Melbourne, but there was a lot of hysteria here this afternoon. Huge increase in police presence, cafes shutting down, stores shutting down. It was crazy!
 

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TsarMatt said:
Kieran said:
Are you in Sydney, Matt? Do you know that cafe?

Nope, in Melbourne, but there was a lot of hysteria here this afternoon. Huge increase in police presence, cafes shutting down, stores shutting down. It was crazy!

Glad you're safe. :)

Do you think they're over-reacting in shutting so many places, or being wise to err on the side of caution?

There'll be more spotlight on Muslim communities because of this. Obviously, the innocent and devout will suffer because of the loonies. I remember years ago that every time I went to England I was stopped and searched because - let's face it - the terrorists were Irish. I didn't blame the British because they were only being prudent and making an obvious connect. I felt - and still feel - more rage towards the animals in the IRA. Muslims will need to be vigilant in their communities to anybody who has an explosive chip on their shoulder towards the west...
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Sad situation. But the MO is totally different from all the other Muslim Extremist terror actions. Usually they blow up everyone and themselves and ask questions later. This guy is demanding a phone call and all that. It might be a positive.

All I hope is that it ends well.
 

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It's the same guy who got arrested for sending the families of dead Australian soldiers poisionous letters.
 

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Yeah, he fled to Australia in 1996 from Iran seeking refuge. If a single hostage is harmed, this guy needs to leave the premises in a wooden box.
 

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The man is described in BBC as an Iranian refugee who's out on bail for being an accessory in the murder of his former wife and there maybe up to 40 other charges of sexual assault pending, which begs the question of how much leeway a refugee should be given, and also it makes me think of the debate on immigration which is taking place in Britain.

Not saying this to bait or batter immigrants because my own wife is one, and I maybe one myself someday. Also, being a refugee means he's left his homeland in a hurry, needing sanctuary,which he found in the country he's terrorising. Is there something about this guy that I'm missing?

Mental health issues? Seriously. Let's hope this ends well, and the fact that he's talking means it has a better chance...