What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

Kieran

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britbox said:
..and all this happening while Gaza burns.

Well, that's another mess. Hamas hurl bombs in with great regularity but less effectiveness, and Israel retaliates with greater effectiveness but without the need for such regularity.

Until the Middle East accepts Israel's right to exist, there'll be no peace there and the Palestinians will continue to suffer, as well as the Israelis. The Palestinians are also victims of Hamas, while also taking the brunt of the fightback from Israel. I don't see a solution to the Middle East at all...
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Kieran said:
britbox said:
..and all this happening while Gaza burns.

Well, that's another mess. Hamas hurl bombs in with great regularity but less effectiveness, and Israel retaliates with greater effectiveness but without the need for such regularity.

Until the Middle East accepts Israel's right to exist, there'll be no peace there and the Palestinians will continue to suffer, as well as the Israelis. The Palestinians are also victims of Hamas, while also taking the brunt of the fightback from Israel. I don't see a solution to the Middle East at all...

I have the perfect solution for the Middle east problems, but it is a bit controversial to write here...:puzzled
 

Kieran

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Here's the Middle Eastern story trendy anti-Israel western liberal newspapers don't like talking about: the culling of Christians from their ancient worshiping grounds. :nono

This kind of thing is common in the Middle East, where persecution of Christians is casual and engrained, even in so-called moderate Muslim countries...
 

britbox

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1972Murat said:
Kieran said:
britbox said:
..and all this happening while Gaza burns.

Well, that's another mess. Hamas hurl bombs in with great regularity but less effectiveness, and Israel retaliates with greater effectiveness but without the need for such regularity.

Until the Middle East accepts Israel's right to exist, there'll be no peace there and the Palestinians will continue to suffer, as well as the Israelis. The Palestinians are also victims of Hamas, while also taking the brunt of the fightback from Israel. I don't see a solution to the Middle East at all...

I have the perfect solution for the Middle east problems, but it is a bit controversial to write here...:puzzled

Like moving Israel to Wyoming?
 

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britbox said:
Ok, The plane being brought down is something we agree on. A tragedy.

The rest of it... regarding the commentary, including your own I think is a little bit clouded for want of a better word.

First, Russia never invaded the Ukraine - not in a conventional sense. The Crimea scenario was self-determining and I think one person got shot.

Now of course, anyone would be pretty stupid to argue that the Russians don't have a dog in this. They are clearly providing the rebels with intelligence, some arms (not a massive arsenal by all accounts) and have influence - although not direct control as implied by media commentary.

This is all about geopolitics and to all intents and purposes a proxy conflict. Now, the "bad guy" Putin is looking after Russia's geopolitical interests on his very own borders.

On the flipside, exactly the same is happening in Kiev. Western powers are providing intelligence, direction and arms... to serve their own geopolitical interests. You may think the Director of the CIA was in Kiev on vacation... personally I don't.

You label the Eastern rebels as Russian thugs - the vast majority are actually Ukrainians. It's a Ukraine v Ukraine conflict with other parties backing a side to serve their own interests. It's not a good guy v bad guy division - there is probably little difference between people serving on either side.

At the beginning of all this, western powers were funding NGO's (Non-governmental organisations) and supported what was labelled in the western media as a popular uprising... it wasn't that popular in the east - Russian (which most of them speak) was promptly banned as an official language. Their own uprising was labelled terrorism, not a "popular uprising".

The west didn't want Ukraine falling under the Russian trade agreement and the Russians didn't want the Ukraine falling under the EU umbrella and last of all falling under a NATO umbrella.

Now, this might come as a surprise to you, but I am a westerner and pro-western- but let's just call it for what it is. The west keep encircling and pushing Russia and now it's finally pushing back. The same thing will happen with China further down the line.

As per many recent wars and conflicts, the hegemony of the US dollar in energy dealings is another likely factor - the Russians and Chinese are looking to lessen the reliance of the dollar - their own energy deal will be done in native currencies and the BRICS bank has just been established using a basket of currencies. This is obviously a massive concern to the west, particularly the US, as it will bring down the entire economy.

I honestly sometimes doubt your statement that I bolded.:)

How dare those Russians living in Ukraine just because somebody decided to separate them from their motherland few years back hope they can speak their own language and trade freely with their brothers and sisters. You know watching those chants: "Kill Russians" in the Kiev square must have melted Ukrainian Russians hearts and left them feeling very welcome in the new government. I went through exactly the same scenario and it is not looking good for ANYBODY in Ukraine. Apparently the country is at the bankrupt stage, PM resigned, chaos all around. They don't have money to pay Ukrainian soldiers, few more months and cold weather starts. But football league will go on, they will just move teams to safer areas. God help the ordinary people.
 

britbox

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Billie said:
britbox said:
Ok, The plane being brought down is something we agree on. A tragedy.

The rest of it... regarding the commentary, including your own I think is a little bit clouded for want of a better word.

First, Russia never invaded the Ukraine - not in a conventional sense. The Crimea scenario was self-determining and I think one person got shot.

Now of course, anyone would be pretty stupid to argue that the Russians don't have a dog in this. They are clearly providing the rebels with intelligence, some arms (not a massive arsenal by all accounts) and have influence - although not direct control as implied by media commentary.

This is all about geopolitics and to all intents and purposes a proxy conflict. Now, the "bad guy" Putin is looking after Russia's geopolitical interests on his very own borders.

On the flipside, exactly the same is happening in Kiev. Western powers are providing intelligence, direction and arms... to serve their own geopolitical interests. You may think the Director of the CIA was in Kiev on vacation... personally I don't.

You label the Eastern rebels as Russian thugs - the vast majority are actually Ukrainians. It's a Ukraine v Ukraine conflict with other parties backing a side to serve their own interests. It's not a good guy v bad guy division - there is probably little difference between people serving on either side.

At the beginning of all this, western powers were funding NGO's (Non-governmental organisations) and supported what was labelled in the western media as a popular uprising... it wasn't that popular in the east - Russian (which most of them speak) was promptly banned as an official language. Their own uprising was labelled terrorism, not a "popular uprising".

The west didn't want Ukraine falling under the Russian trade agreement and the Russians didn't want the Ukraine falling under the EU umbrella and last of all falling under a NATO umbrella.

Now, this might come as a surprise to you, but I am a westerner and pro-western- but let's just call it for what it is. The west keep encircling and pushing Russia and now it's finally pushing back. The same thing will happen with China further down the line.

As per many recent wars and conflicts, the hegemony of the US dollar in energy dealings is another likely factor - the Russians and Chinese are looking to lessen the reliance of the dollar - their own energy deal will be done in native currencies and the BRICS bank has just been established using a basket of currencies. This is obviously a massive concern to the west, particularly the US, as it will bring down the entire economy.

I honestly sometimes doubt your statement that I bolded.:)

I have big misgivings about foreign policy and continual destabalizing of other countries, that's for sure.
 

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^ I guess I always think of people first. Are they going to be better off after the conflict? Honestly, I don't think that I will ever in my life support any kind of war or conflict. But people get provoked all the time, countries as well. Any war conflict is one of the true situations where you can say it is not black and white status for any party involved.
 

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This has the potential to become very interesting, if it's true. A power struggle in the Kremlin...
 

britbox

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More than likely - but I'm kind of thinking how the Germans play this themselves will have an impact. They will basically call the important shots within the EU. The French will have the second loudest voice. Both have important trade with the Russians. Merkel is a pragmatist - even if she barks loudly in public, she isn't going to want to do anything of any magnitude that could have serious ramifications for the German economy.

The UK is largely irrelevant as it will just follow an American lead and has little trade with the Russians anyway.

The Russians won't be able to pivot their economy to the East fast enough even if they choose to do so unless they get finance from the east in the interim.
 

britbox

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On another issue, this is a pretty big development:

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/killed-turning-onslaught.html

If verified.
 

Kieran

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Kinda related to the trouble in the Middle East - but not really, since this is an old trouble in Europe, and one which is raising its beastly face again, under the pretext of concern for Palestinians: anti-semitism is on the rise, again.

One Facebook page created in the last week, entitled Jeunes Revolutionnaires Francais, or Young French Revolutionaries, posted the names, photographs and addresses of 32 French Jews encouraging members to target them.

After the picture of one young man seen wearing a skullcap was put up, he was attacked in his home in the Paris suburbs on Thursday evening by a group of masked men with iron bars.

I've read similar articles saying similar things, with photos of marching protesters holding signs that say stuff like, "Hitler was right."

This has nothing to do with the Israeli-Hamas conflict, since the indiscriminate attack of Jews in European countries - French Jews, German Jews - doesn't take into account the victims view on the actions of the Israeli government.

This is a concern, since it shows that one of the most ancient of all hatreds is still active... :nono
 

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I am interested if any of you read any other websites except the western ones? I kind of like to read even the same news from different perspectives, let alone different analysis.
 

Kieran

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Billie said:
I am interested if any of you read any other websites except the western ones? I kind of like to read even the same news from different perspectives, let alone different analysis.

My wife is Lithuanian, so I get some info from her on what they're saying in Eastern Europe. I have Muslim pals in Dublin, one from Sudan, one from Palestine, and a friend who lives in Huddersfield, England, who is from Pakistan. Unfortunately, I fell out with her recently because she told me that "Hitler had the right idea." :mad:

I try to get news from many places, but on a day to day basis, just to get the gist, I go for what's handy. I suppose we all have filters we use when we read the news and we have to root around a bit to check that what's been written isn't just the product of bias...

EDIT: The anti-semitism story is one I've seen in other news sites, and I read it in the Sunday Times too, but that has a paywall, and the Telegraph is only writing what I've read and seen several times elsewhere...
 

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Kieran said:
This has the potential to become very interesting, if it's true. A power struggle in the Kremlin...
Yeah, a lot of people that I know tend to have this image that Putin is the "ultimate leader" in Russia and he has infinite power. Like every other world leader, he works for the special interests of a particular elite.
 

britbox

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Billie said:
I am interested if any of you read any other websites except the western ones? I kind of like to read even the same news from different perspectives, let alone different analysis.

Yeah, quite a few.
 

britbox

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Israel bombs UN safe haven in Gaza

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/world/middleeast/israel-gaza.html?_r=0

Out of control.
 

shawnbm

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There is all kinds of spin and propaganda going round about the chat between Barack and Benjamin. The Obama Administration has not been as dear a friend to Israel as prior presidencies and there is tension. Then again, the same can be said for Russia and India. North Korea? Well, nobody is as unpredictable as that regime, expect that they are predictably a danger to us and more so our Asian allies at almost any time.
 

britbox

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shawn... Do you think US foreign policy changes that much based on the administration (i.e. party in power)?

From the outside looking in, it doesn't seem so IMO.

Also, while North Korea is a bit of a laughing stock in the west, do you really view them as a threat?