What on Earth is going on in the world today? It's gone mad

[calitennis127]

Amazing.....imagine if a Republican, let alone Trump, tweeted out a warning like this to Jewish people. The Hitler comparisons would be the shrillest we have ever heard. But apparently it's okay for a prominent Democrat to say such things:

 

[calitennis127]

It's actually very concerning how "Big Tech" decides what is the "truth". So, the policy of Youtube and Facebook is to remove any content that differs from that offered by bodies such as the WHO (amongst others).

So, If you believed that Coronavirus was transmissible between humans a few months ago, your content would have been deleted, because it was contrary to the original WHO advice.

Exactly right. And those two doctors in California actually treated a substantial number of COVID patients. They are qualified professionals and made a strong scientific case for their position. Yet, the left-wing totalitarians censored their video.

If I may borrow a phrase from another poster, does this make the left-wing Democrats at YouTube "science-denying cult morons"?

I think it just might. Just maybe.

 

[britbox]

This might be a game-changer.

New coronavirus antibody test 'with 99 per cent accuracy' approved for use across Europe

New lab test will help identify people infected with Covid-19 who have developed antibodies

www.independent.co.uk

 

[britbox]

Does anyone genuinely give two shits about this Pandemic outside of US political implications? Just asking for a friend. I get the impression Moxie does, but nearly all the other comments relate to Trump, timelines, and press conferences.

 

[Federberg]

Does anyone genuinely give two shits about this Pandemic outside of US political implications? Just asking for a friend. I get the impression Moxie does, but nearly all the other comments relate to Trump, timelines, and press conferences.

speaking as someone who has had loved ones affected, including my partners best friends father dying a few days ago. Yes I give more that 2 shits

 

[brokenshoelace]

Does anyone genuinely give two shits about this Pandemic outside of US political implications? Just asking for a friend. I get the impression Moxie does, but nearly all the other comments relate to Trump, timelines, and press conferences.

I do. But I live in Lebanon. And nobody ever gives a shit about Lebanon, or any third world country, pandemic or otherwise. So I won't sit here and discuss my government's handling of the pandemic (which has been shockingly better than that of the US, UK, and others...).

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Opinion | Is Sweden Doing It Right? (Published 2020)

The Swedes aren’t battling the coronavirus with broad lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Federberg]

Opinion | Is Sweden Doing It Right? (Published 2020)

The Swedes aren’t battling the coronavirus with broad lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

don't look now, they're backing off a little bit in recent days. Starting to employ a bit more social distancing. Their numbers look terrible in comparison to the other Scandinavian countries. Some might say it's not a big deal, but it's bad politics for some and acceptable to others. Clearly it reached a point that tipped them into a bit more caution. It does make you wonder... if you're going to do it, do it and commit 100% despite the higher fatality rate. The problem for me is that there is simply no evidence right now that having tested positive confers immunity. That's the thing that makes me think this is irresponsible. If you know for certain that immunity is possible then voters can make the decision about what is acceptable

 

[Horsa]

Does anyone genuinely give two shits about this Pandemic outside of US political implications? Just asking for a friend. I get the impression Moxie does, but nearly all the other comments relate to Trump, timelines, and press conferences.

I do because of how it's affecting the way everyone is having to live. I know something had to be done to keep it under control as much as possible but I can't do everything I need to do right now because of it. As my phone won't take the app & my P.C. won't either, the Dr's surgery telephone line isn't giving the right option for ordering repeat prescriptions or letting you hold the line to speak to anyone & she can't hand the repeat prescription slips into the box in the Dr.'s, they can't be ordered. My Sister was in the same position but had an appointment with her asthma nurse so told her & she sorted it out for her. In Mother's case it's not a matter of life or death.I can't transfer the utility bills & T.V. license into Mother's name as the automated phone system isn't giving that option or the option to hold the line. We either need these restrictions lifted A.S.A.P. or the automated phone systems offering different options. I'm also friends with people who've had family die of Coronavirus so realise people want to avoid it. No one likes being ill.

 

[Federberg]

It's actually very concerning how "Big Tech" decides what is the "truth". So, the policy of Youtube and Facebook is to remove any content that differs from that offered by bodies such as the WHO (amongst others).

So, If you believed that Coronavirus was transmissible between humans a few months ago, your content would have been deleted, because it was contrary to the original WHO advice.

I saw the video you offered up... So, we've had two doctors on the front-line getting censored by a Big Tech company over a health matter...

it's an interesting problem. But it's their space that's being used to promote potentially dubious information. There was a court case recently that went to the Supreme Court that ruled in favour of the tech giants.

As to the substance of their claims, I guess you have to use your own common sense. Do you weight their observations more highly than pedigreed scientists who say the complete opposite? I know who I choose. It's also worth pointing out that these guys have a financial interest to oppose the lockdown.

As an aside, since Tucker Carlson was talking about these guys recently and is one of the main proponents for arguing against the lockdown. It's somewhat ironic that he's not exactly stepping out on his own in opposition to the lockdown? I have to ask myself why that is. If he was doing that.. disregarding his own personal safety I might take his advocacy a bit more seriously. It actually reminds of the Wisconsin politician arguing that people coming out to vote was entirely ok and there was no danger while wearing a fucking mask and full on PPE equipment. This is stuff that will be recorded for all time

 

[Jelenafan]

Does anyone genuinely give two shits about this Pandemic outside of US political implications? Just asking for a friend. I get the impression Moxie does, but nearly all the other comments relate to Trump, timelines, and press conferences.

This pandemic impacts my livelihood, my health and my family. As to "politicizing" the pandemic per Trump, it seems to be the nature of the beast that the social climate makes the POTUS daily briefings something to react to, but it's not as if anyone has the illusion he's actually in charge.

Everything here IMO is more on the state/regional level as to COVID-19 and reacting to the situation at hand and trying to protect oneself and hopefully not spiralling into economic ruin. The thing is, this is genuinely unprecedented in our lifetime so I don't "blame" Trump. TBH, he had the dumb luck to be Prez when all this went down, but it's not as if this is some inevitable consequence of his Presidency. To me it's more entertaining how he tries to spin something which doesn't lend itself to. It's having the proverbial tiger by the tail so to speak.

Here in California, the Governor and state/local authorities actually dictate more than any Federal guidelines. The West coast States (Cali, Oregon, Washington) have a coordinated general plan in place, with specific benchmarks to be reached to open up the economy gradually.

Coronavirus: California cases, deaths slow as state plans four-stage reopening

Low-risk businesses and workplaces could reopen in the next few weeks — as long as social distancing continues to push down the number of new cases.

www.mercurynews.com

Excerpt:

Under the four-stage plan Newsom announced Tuesday, California is currently in Stage 1. People are staying home and helping to “flatten the curve” of new cases and deaths, while the state builds up its capacity for testing, admitting new patients to hospitals and providing healthcare workers with personal protective equipment.

Stage 2 could come in a few weeks, and could also involve reopening manufacturing businesses and increase people’s access to public space. Stage 3 — which for a lot of people could represent a return to normal life — would involve re-opening gyms, spas, salons and other personal care businesses, along with movie theaters, in-personal religious services and sporting events without live audiences.

But Newsom said Stage 3 is “months, not weeks away.” Finally there’s Stage 4 — the reopening of the “highest risk parts of our economy,” which includes concerts, conventions and sports with live crowds. But Newsom said that stage would only come “once therapeutics have been developed.”

So this Cali plan isn't sexy or get all the news but it's actually something that gives a more clearcut sense of what the task lies ahead. Of course the devil is in the details, how LONG can you stay closed for certain industries without a domino effect which ironically would impact the general health even more.

On the federal level, the disinfectant in your lungs, arguing with reporters, etc is just media fodder; but I would hope most folks realize that's not where the real decisions are made.

 

[britbox]

I do. But I live in Lebanon. And nobody ever gives a shit about Lebanon, or any third world country, pandemic or otherwise. So I won't sit here and discuss my government's handling of the pandemic (which has been shockingly better than that of the US, UK, and others...).

I find the different approaches taken by countries interesting. What's happening in Lebanon?

 

[britbox]

In other news, the Pentagon verifies UFO footage as authentic.

Pentagon formally releases 3 Navy videos showing "unidentified aerial phenomena"

"The aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as 'unidentified,'" a spokeswoman said.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Moxie]

Amazing.....imagine if a Republican, let alone Trump, tweeted out a warning like this to Jewish people. The Hitler comparisons would be the shrillest we have ever heard. But apparently it's okay for a prominent Democrat to say such things:

This tweet needs more context. De Blasio's comment was in response to the Orthodox Jewish community coming out in packed droves for the funeral of a rabbi. If you don't even read this whole article, look at the photo illustration:

‘Scapegoating Jews’: Outrage after de Blasio faults ‘Jewish community’ for crowded Brooklyn funeral

The mayor's tweets drew backlash from critics who said he was singling out the Jewish community.

www.politico.com

This opinion piece by an Orthodox woman provides some explanation of why the community is so hard-hit, and why the traditions and life-styles conflict so completely with social distancing, including distrust of science, belief that they are protected by God, and lack of access to information.

Opinion | The Challenge of Social Distancing in Hasidic Communities (Published 2020)

The very things that make the place I grew up in unique and beautiful may contribute to the spread of the coronavirus.

www.nytimes.com

It's very complicated, and hard to make some people conform. But De Blasio did say "Orthodox and other communities." He didn't single them out, but he did call them out, because of this specific incident yesterday. And yes, there has been a lot of blow-back. Too on-the-nose? Should he not try to protect them, against their will? That's a really complicated question.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I find the different approaches taken by countries interesting. What's happening in Lebanon?

Well, they reacted a week too late for everyone's liking, for political reasons (it's a complicated situation but basically they allowed a few planes coming from Iran to land because Hezbollah has a huge stranglehold on key political decisions in the country and they're iran's main ally and for some reason insisted on those planes landing). Of course, a few passengers ended up testing positive and that's how the Virus first spread in the country.

After that though, Hezbollah urged their supporters (it's really hard to explain without getting into the specifics of how they function, how loyal their supporters are, how they're their own entity, etc...) to take the virus seriously and the government proceeded with a nation-wide lockdown. More or less everything was closed (aside from supermarkets obviously) and there was a curfew starting 7 pm every day, and a 24-hour curfew on Sunday. It doubtlessly worked, with plans for a gradual, 6 week-long re-opening of the country starting next Monday. First, essential businesses, then the service industry, then schools, etc...

The problem however, is the virus hit in the middle of a revolution in the country, which forced people off the streets (again, it's hard to explain this without getting into a history lesson about the widespread corruption in the country). The economy was already on the verge of collapsing, and with the virus, it's the worst it's ever been. Some people are literally starving, and they're storming the streets again in protest against the government, which is obviously not ideal during a pandemic, but it's really hard to blame them.

 

[britbox]

Well, they reacted a week too late for everyone's liking, for political reasons (it's a complicated situation but basically they allowed a few planes coming from Iran to land because Hezbollah has a huge stranglehold on key political decisions in the country and they're iran's main ally and for some reason insisted on those planes landing). Of course, a few passengers ended up testing positive and that's how the Virus first spread in the country.

After that though, Hezbollah urged their supporters (it's really hard to explain without getting into the specifics of how they function, how loyal their supporters are, how they're their own entity, etc...) to take the virus seriously and the government proceeded with a nation-wide lockdown. More or less everything was closed (aside from supermarkets obviously) and there was a curfew starting 7 pm every day, and a 24-hour curfew on Sunday. It doubtlessly worked, with plans for a gradual, 6 week-long re-opening of the country starting next Monday. First, essential businesses, then the service industry, then schools, etc...

The problem however, is the virus hit in the middle of a revolution in the country, which forced people off the streets (again, it's hard to explain this without getting into a history lesson about the widespread corruption in the country). The economy was already on the verge of collapsing, and with the virus, it's the worst it's ever been. Some people are literally starving, and they're storming the streets again in protest against the government, which is obviously not ideal during a pandemic, but it's really hard to blame them.

Comparatively strict rules to follow compared to most. It's perfectly understandable that people will go out if they aren't getting food relief.

Do you have much insight into what is happening in Iran? I saw a lot of their high-level politicians had died, which seemed "unusual'.

 

[Moxie]

I do because of how it's affecting the way everyone is having to live. I know something had to be done to keep it under control as much as possible but I can't do everything I need to do right now because of it. As my phone won't take the app & my P.C. won't either, the Dr's surgery telephone line isn't giving the right option for ordering repeat prescriptions or letting you hold the line to speak to anyone & she can't hand the repeat prescription slips into the box in the Dr.'s, they can't be ordered. My Sister was in the same position but had an appointment with her asthma nurse so told her & she sorted it out for her. In Mother's case it's not a matter of life or death.I can't transfer the utility bills & T.V. license into Mother's name as the automated phone system isn't giving that option or the option to hold the line. We either need these restrictions lifted A.S.A.P. or the automated phone systems offering different options. I'm also friends with people who've had family die of Coronavirus so realise people want to avoid it. No one likes being ill.

I really empathize with you here, Horsa, in that I lost my dad a few years back, and there is also nuts-and-bolts bureaucracy to deal with, in terms of ramifications, and a lot of it is easier in person, which you can't do. Hang in there. Apply your efforts where they are most needed, i.e., medications, and actual transfers of money and benefits, and the rest will sort itself out, eventually.

 

[Moxie]

I think the point was that you weren't acknowledging the contagion rate that had already been seen in multiple countries. It was clear that the "paltry" numbers you were quoting were going to escalate quickly. The patterns were happening everywhere else. I didn't think you were taking it seriously enough. Yes, the mortality rate is lower than what was initially being bandied around in the media... but a small percentage of a large number can still result in large raw numbers.

Neither do I think the reaction was whipped up by the Washington Post. The events unfolding in Italy were more than enough to fuel the European press. Sure, certain sections of the media will always attack Trump, whether it's justified or not, but that is irrelevant to the virus itself.

As for the "medicine" - closing the Economy down... (Not just in the United States, but throughout the globe) - sure, there is a debate to be had. I've acknowledged that before. Also, bear in mind that parts of the economy wouldn't be operating anywhere near the levels of usual activity anyway (even without the mandated lockdown).

Personally, I was in favour of a limited short-term lockdown to buy time to learn more about the virus, ride out the main storm, and get healthcare capacity in place. Robust healthcare supply chains should be added to that list based on what's unfolded.

Once the PPE supply chain is strong enough, then most lockdowns around the world should be rolled back. People will need to accept that they will have to co-exist with the virus, as with any other infectious disease. Mitigation measures to protect the elderly and high-risk groups should be in place.

Long term lockdowns aren't sustainable and more damaging from both economic and health perspectives.

This is an excellent post. Even in NY, we're talking about opening back up, but slowly and carefully. When this virus hit the world, and we knew it was of the very contagious kind, (spread by aspirated particles, affecting the lungs,) the right thing to do was to lock-down and try to learn as much as possible, get the supply chains in place for the most needed things, and get to work on testing, etc. I also agree that we can't be on lock-down for a lot longer, though, as to @Jelenafan's post about how California is rolling it out, that's a reasonable plan. I'm not sure how much it will ever be knowable how much we saved lives at the sacrifice of the economies. But as you have said, it's mostly a politically (and ethically) untenable position to sit by and let people die, and just hope for the best. Now that we understand better what we're up against, and hopefully as testing gets more universal and reliable, we come out from our hidey-holes and start to come back to normal, little by little. People will still get sick, but we've also socialized a new-normal in terms of how we come back out, gradually, and how/what we do to protect each other. As you mention, we know better who the high-risk groups are, and how we can better protect them. I know every place isn't hard-hit like my town, and we really have to hold the line here...but if we're all mindful and careful, we can come back to work and life and not undo all the good work we've done.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Comparatively strict rules to follow compared to most. It's perfectly understandable that people will go out if they aren't getting food relief.

Do you have much insight into what is happening in Iran? I saw a lot of their high-level politicians had died, which seemed "unusual'.

The rules had to be strict. Again, it's one of those things where you have to be familiar with the Lebanese "laisser-faire" mentality to properly grasp. There's always a "yeah whatever, we'll survive this...we've survived worse" attitude among Lebanese people, largely due to the fact that Lebanon's history is just one turmoil after the next, and the country never truly properly heals before the next disaster hits.

It'll be hard to convince starving people to stay home though, as potentially catching the virus seems like a better alternative than a sure death due to hunger. It's also difficult to explain just how bad the financial crisis is, how avoidable it was, but also, how predictable. Decades or corruption and flat out theft by the Lebanese government have finally caught up. But in short it's due to the following: people deposit their money at the banks >>> the banks in turn, store that money at the Central Bank >>> the Central Bank lends the money to the Lebanese government >>> the Lebanese government spends that money on corrupt deals and personal endeavors >>> the country is largely in debt >>> the Prime Minister travels the world seeking aid and taking loans to cover up the debt >>> the country is in greater debt. It's a net of corruption and ponzi schemes which have been in place since the early 1990's after the end of the civil war.

Except now, due to the political alienation of some Arab allies (Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc...) partially due to the Hezbollah/Iran coalition, and the Coronavirus hampering every country's economy (including Lebanon's), there's no more help to seek out, so everything fell apart.

With regards to Iran, it's really tough to tell. Again, the topic of Iran is a very delicate one over here, mainly because by and large, Hezbollah-dominated areas in Lebanon have become a proxy extension of Iran (non-Hezbollah supporters really don't perceive them to be a Lebanese party, and rightfully so). As a result, the media is hesitant to on report what's truly going on over there, and that's assuming they have the slightest clue. So my grasp on what's going on there is the same as yours, and it's a complete shit-fest. From what I've read, I don't think a single country has handled the pandemic any worse, and it verges on the suspicious. One theory regarding those planes that Hezbollah insisted that they led is that they carried a number of Irani politicians and officials that Hezbollah brought in for treatment, but who knows.

 

[Federberg]

Bust-up in Brasília
Jair Bolsonaro’s dangerous divorce
Brazil’s justice minister storms out, calling the president a scofflaw
The Americas

Apr 29th 2020
SÃO PAULO
ON APRIL 19TH Brazil’s president, Jair Bolsonaro, climbed onto a lorry outside army headquarters in Brasília to fire up protesters who were calling for a shutdown of Congress and the Supreme Court. Soon after, according to Folha de S. Paulo, a newspaper, he learned that federal police were investigating allegations that one of his sons, Carlos, runs an online fake-news network that may have inspired the protest. On April 24th Mr Bolsonaro sacked the head of the federal police. Hours later the justice minister, Sérgio Moro, resigned. He accused the president on television of “political interference” in the police to shield his family.
Mr Moro’s resignation is the biggest political blow to Mr Bolsonaro since he became president at the beginning of 2019. An army captain turned congressman, Mr Bolsonaro rose from obscurity by exploiting anger at corruption. His appointment as justice minister of Mr Moro, a judge who jailed scores of politicians and businessmen as leader of the Lava Jato (Car Wash) anti-corruption investigations, signalled his determination to fight graft. Now Mr Moro, a hero to many Brazilians, has accused his former boss of obstructing justice. If an investigation backs that claim, Mr Bolsonaro could be impeached.

That crisis comes on top of twin calamities: the covid-19 pandemic and the economic slump it has caused. On April 16th Mr Bolsonaro sacked the health minister, Luiz Mandetta, who had refused to back his demands that shops and schools reopen. Some supporters are disillusioned. “I voted for Bolsonaro in hopes of a better Brazil,” says Ary, a taxi driver in the north-eastern city of Maceió. “But it was all in vain.”
The allegations against Carlos Bolsonaro are not the first to be levelled against the president’s family. Before he took office prosecutors opened an investigation into possible embezzlement by his eldest son, Flávio, now a senator from Rio de Janeiro. Documents published by the Intercept, a news site, suggest he used public money to finance illegal construction projects run by right-wing “militias”. Now Mr Moro has accused the president himself.
Mr Bolsonaro’s survival in office depends on three factors. The first is the probe triggered by Mr Moro. Its outcome may depend on whether the president’s alleged misconduct achieves its aim. Things are not going as he might wish. The person he appointed to be the new police chief is a family friend. But on April 29th Mr Bolsonaro withdrew his nomination after a Supreme Court judge put the appointment on hold. The same judge had earlier ruled that a new chief could not change the officers leading investigations into the actions of Mr Bolsonaro’s sons.
The second arena of judgment is Congress, which can evict a president from office by a two-thirds majority of both houses. To avoid this, Mr Bolsonaro is cosying up to the centrão, a block of ideologically vacant parties. He has abandoned his earlier pledge not to give legislators benefits, such as government jobs for their allies, in exchange for political support. Impeachment “is not in Congress’s interest”, says Ricardo Barros, a federal deputy from the Progressives party, part of the centrão.

That could change, he admits, if the president loses the support of voters, the third and most important influence on Mr Bolsonaro’s future. Before Dilma Rousseff was impeached in 2016 her approval rating dropped to 8% and she faced huge protests. So far, Mr Bolsonaro has kept his base of a third of voters. According to Datafolha, a pollster, 46% of Brazilians want him to resign, a rise of nine percentage points within a month. But half think he should stay.
“People are starting to say: ‘I was wrong,’” says Renan Santos, the leader of the right-wing Free Brazil Movement, which organised protests against Ms Rousseff and initially supported Mr Bolsonaro but now calls for his impeachment. For the first time since 2017, Mr Bolsonaro has lost Facebook fans.
Whatever the popular verdict, Mr Bolsonaro’s presidency lost much of its purpose when Mr Moro decamped. Its other main justification, the reform programme led by the liberal economy minister, Paulo Guedes, is endangered by the recession. He wants to slash spending, simplify taxes and privatise state enterprises. Now the government must splash out. It has promised tens of millions of Brazilians a monthly payment of 600 reais ($110). That will cost 118bn reais this year, about 1.6% of GDP. On April 22nd the government announced a “recovery plan” to employ 1m people through sketchily defined infrastructure projects. Mr Guedes was not consulted. Rumours flew that he would follow Mr Moro out of the door.
The financial markets’ confidence in Brazil depends on Mr Guedes staying put. Knowing this, Mr Bolsonaro paraded him before journalists on April 27th and backed down from the public-works plan, for now. Even so, “reforms aren’t going to happen,” says Eduardo Cury, a federal deputy from the centre-right Party of Brazilian Social Democracy. “Guedes will have to hang his head or go home.”

His marginalisation leaves the government in the hands of ideologues and generals. The ideologues reinforce Mr Bolsonaro’s strongest preferences, for example to loosen gun controls. The soldiers, who occupy seven of 22 cabinet posts (including all four with offices in the presidential palace), sometimes restrain him. They tempered his hostility towards China, Brazil’s biggest trading partner. “They believe they’re capable of doing something important for the government at a time when it’s very chaotic,” says a retired general. But on such issues as developing the Amazon and bulking up the state’s economic role, they are in tune with Mr Bolsonaro.
Some officers may have second thoughts about backing his imploding presidency, says a scholar who studies Brazil’s army. But their sense of duty will keep them loyal. Impeachment would not diminish their role. Hamilton Mourão, the vice-president, was a serving general until 2018. If the military-minded president is removed, he will leave a martial legacy.