US Politics Thread

britbox

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That's rather simplistic don't you think? I've never been comfortable with all the false equivalence we've seen in this election. It's really sad. Credit to the GOP, they did an effective job of character assassination. Even then the nature of the electoral map was needed to get them over the line. Such is the way of things

If you think that was a one way street then you are blind my friend. Clinton had the masses of the entire establishment behind her - virtually the entire media. How Trump prevailed against the machine is frankly bewildering... but he did. Sign of the times. I'll ask you a question... which organisation releases more factual information... Wikileaks or CNN?
 
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Federberg

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If you think that was a one way street then you are blind my friend. Clinton had the masses of the entire establishment behind her - virtually the entire media. How Trump prevailed against the machine is frankly bewildering... but he did. Sign of the times. I'll ask you a question... which organisation releases more factual information... Wikileaks or CNN?

That's an interesting question. And very germane. Let's leave aside the fact that in recent times Wikileaks no longer makes any effort to verify the accuracy of the information they gather (let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say it's all true), I would still turn your question back to you and ask... what information do you think CNN is releasing that isn't factual? It was interesting to watch Snowden being interviewed about Wikileaks and hearing his reservations about what they were doing. He stated that he was extremely uncomfortable with their methods because they were effectively just dumping information on to the internet without any due diligence at all.

If you had used the New York Times as a comparison I might have more sympathy because clearly their editorial board decided that they would be blatantly anti-Trump, and while I had a lot of sympathy with their rationale, they clearly set aside their responsibilities to report the news without bias.

But even then, I would suggest you're the one who's blind here. The true irony of this election, as we're all learning now, is that the electorate (or at least a large percentage of it) was not willing to hear anything from anyone identified as the establishment. That's the real story here, and it was the same thing during Brexit. Where establishment sources were concerned it wasn't about truth. It turns out they could have said the sky is blue and the mood of the land was to disbelieve. But that's ok (well it's not, but it is what happened). What's really pernicious is people like you saying that the media was against Trump. You completely gloss over the fact that Trump benefited massively from all the media attention he got. Without the media, who knows whether he would have defeated his GOP rivals. I can excuse people not getting it while it was happening, but we need to be smart enough to at least understand something that Trump understood from the very beginning. As an aside it wouldn't shock me if Farage actually prepped him and said, "forget about the truth mate, the people don't care. Just echo their anger and rage against the elites". It was highly highly effective. But that's an entirely different thing than saying the media was unfair to him. The man lied repeatedly and blatantly and he got a pass, HRC as with all traditional politicians parsed the truth and tried to be clever with her wording and she got no pass at all. The irony in your comment about blindness is that this was evident for all to see. But as I said there was a false equivalence, you simply can't compare misstatements to outright lies, not if you have any sort of objectivity. Personally I was never a fan of HRC, I just loathed Trump, but I'll admit I was very naive to believe that the lesson of Brexit would be enough to deter the US from going down a similar path. Never forget that because of her complacency HRC lost 7 million Obama voters and still beat Trump in the popularity stakes by nearly 2 million votes! This paradigm sweeping through Western democracies is clearly much more serious than I could have imagined.

The only positive for me is that the EU is surely doomed now, and that's going to be fun to watch, and profit from
 

britbox

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Wikileaks leak raw data rather than information... it's not parsed or opinionated. So far, nobody has seriously questioned that any of the raw data is false... or denied it's validity.

CNN... well we saw yesterday, CNN interviewing an angry Clinton supporter... picked at "random" from the increasingly violent mob... and then we found out later he happened to be a former CNN cameraman.

On the other stuff... I'm the inverse of you in that I don't particularly like Trump but loathe Clinton.

The truth... well, that's really perception of the truth. The "truth" as I see it is a little different than the way you perceive it.

The media WAS totally against Trump... but I also agree he played that card superbly.

What's Farage lied about? He had no part on the bus signage relating to the NHS. He wasn't part of that campaign group. Neither was he part of the group who lied on the Remain side.... ("Emergency Budget", "Leave the EU on Monday"...and a host of other bullshit that never came to pass)... If the EU was such a strong block then why are you predicting it's imminent collapse when only 1 of 27 members leaves?
 

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Wikileaks leak raw data rather than information... it's not parsed or opinionated. So far, nobody has seriously questioned that any of the raw data is false... or denied it's validity.

CNN... well we saw yesterday, CNN interviewing an angry Clinton supporter... picked at "random" from the increasingly violent mob... and then we found out later he happened to be a former CNN cameraman.

On the other stuff... I'm the inverse of you in that I don't particularly like Trump but loathe Clinton.

The truth... well, that's really perception of the truth. The "truth" as I see it is a little different than the way you perceive it.

The media WAS totally against Trump... but I also agree he played that card superbly.

What's Farage lied about? He had no part on the bus signage relating to the NHS. He wasn't part of that campaign group. Neither was he part of the group who lied on the Remain side.... ("Emergency Budget", "Leave the EU on Monday"...and a host of other bullshit that never came to pass)... If the EU was such a strong block then why are you predicting it's imminent collapse when only 1 of 27 members leaves?

Be very careful... did I say that Farage lied about anything?
 

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^As for my prediction about the EU. Again, please try to represent what I've always said about Brexit and the EU correctly. As I told you repeatedly I had similar reservations about a lot of the EU that you did. I still felt on balance that the UK would be better in than out because I don't like the idea of our losing a huge amount of financial sector business to France and Germany. Nor do I feel that a negotiation out of the EU would be in our favour. Finally I'm less optimistic about future trade opportunities for the UK outside of the EU, and a Trumpian attack on global trade actually reinforces that concern
 

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You implied it... forget about the truth

No I did not. This is the very thing that concerns me about the level of dialogue in this day and age. What I indicated was that Farage was smart enough to observe what worked in the Brexit campaign. I might not like the guy, but he's no fool. You chose to perceive that in your own way mate. That's on you
 

britbox

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You said Farage prepped him with forget about the truth... and in the next sentence said Trump lied repeatedly.

Easy mistake to make if I got you wrong.
 

Federberg

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You said Farage prepped him with forget about the truth... and in the next sentence said Trump lied repeatedly.

Easy mistake to make if I got you wrong.


No worries :)
Farage saw how things went during Brexit. He saw how unwilling the electorate was to believe anything that establishment politicians said, and yet they lapped up the false promises made about what would happen after Brexit. It's not a stretch to imagine him telling his mate Trump. Don't worry about anything the establishment say, the people won't listen, they'll listen to you if you hear their anger. That doesn't mean he had to participate in the lies, he just had to see it happen. As for Trump lying, you're not seriously going to argue the point are you?
 

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obama being the darling of the current ''neo-con, neoliberals" basically they now became ''one" with their particular favorite 'causes' -- but amounting to the same american corporatist imperialism that respects ''no borders" and ''no identities" EXCEPT the ones that american ''progress" and 'liberalism" allows...

they are in the business of doing basically two things (the same really)

in the beginning of obama :

blame everything on DUBYA who was horrible - by saying obama only inherited and can't do anything.. about it (except make it worse - like doubling the debt, opening up more war theatres : ukraine, syria, libya, yemen, sanctions war , more establishing future 'regime change' from macedonia, to cyprus, to turkey, to thailand, laos, and of course the ultimate prizes china and russia)

but now that HE is done -- they blame it ALREADY on trump..what obama's mess has been...very neat and clever way of

giving obama and his disastrous presidency a FREE PASS TO HIS 'LEGENDARY HISTORIC FIRST BLACK PRESIDENCY AND HUMAN RIGHTS CAUSES".

of course on trump's presidency the same game might play from HIS side's supporters -- should he end up being swallowed by the neo-liberal, neo-conservative SAME war and profit racketeering industry that is called

the american establishment and american way...

we will have to see and find out.


Teddy,

Trump took some indespicable people and antiserbs to his team, namely Dole, Dobriyanski and Gringich and with that he proved he'll be a Clinton after Clintons.

That means that my interest in him ceased and there is only one thing to add : "Donald Trump, you are fired!"
 
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Billie

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Have you actually ever listed to Donald Trump open his mouth and speak?

Also, there is absolutely no worse reply to "Trump is a racist piece of garbage" than "look how bad Clinton is." Yeah, no shit. But how does one negate the other? It's the Kellyanne Conway school of arguments.

Oh please don't over-react, what is Trump going to do, force all immigrants, all black people, all Muslim people out of USA? Half of the things he says are knee jerk reactions to what they accuse him of, what the opposing camp started first. On the other hand we have the select circle who say one thing and then go and do completely opposite or don't bother with those issues at all. Thank god for all the leaks that showed the true face of the candidate. Did you read any of that? You are OK with their policies all over Middle East, with destruction and killing of all Muslim countries, starting with Iraq then Libya, Syria, Yemen? Countries with difficult and delicate history and problems that were so carelessly handled by Clintons and Obama? Children being used as shields so that points could be made about how bad one side or the other is? Who caused that? Forcing millions of people out of their homes so yeah they get desperate and angry and they tend to cause problems across Europe. I am still waiting to hear what is one good thing that they did to benefit others.

Here is what a Muslim woman from USA who voted for Trump had to say and how rudely she was cut off at the end because they didn't like what she had to say:

 
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teddytennisfan

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Oh please don't over-react, what is Trump going to do, force all immigrants, all black people, all Muslim people out of USA? Half of the things he says are knee jerk reactions to what they accuse him of, what the opposing camp started first. On the other hand we have the select circle who say one thing and then go and do completely opposite or don't bother with those issues at all. Thank god for all the leaks that showed the true face of the candidate. Did you read any of that? You are OK with their policies all over Middle East, with destruction and killing of all Muslim countries, starting with Iraq then Libya, Syria, Yemen? Countries with difficult and delicate history and problems that were so carelessly handled by Clintons and Obama? Children being used as shields so that points could be made about how bad one side or the other is? Who caused that? Forcing millions of people out of their homes so yeah they get desperate and angry and they tend to cause problems across Europe. I am still waiting to hear what is one good thing that they did to benefit others.

Here is what a Muslim woman from USA who voted for Trump had to say and how rudely she was cut off at the end because they didn't like what she had to say:




i actually know quite a few muslims - middle easterners who - while likely also worried -- nonetheless were supportive of trump.

people - in a sense -- balance what they feel are the priorities.
and having seen already how much damage the bush-obama-clinton debacles have been in the middle east -- the prospect of MORE clinton was too much.
 

teddytennisfan

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Teddy,

Trump took some indespicable people and antiserbs to his team, namely Dole, Dobriyanski and Gringich and with that he proved he'll be a Clinton after Clintons.

That means that my interest in him ceased and there is only one thing to add : "Donald Trump, you are fired!"


it's just a BRUTAL reminder, Mastoor -- is it not? that the extent of american degeneracy is quite beyond recall..one way or another -- as many have also said -- BEYOND ''CLINTON OR TRUMP" arguments --

'you're screwed" .

in short this IS what americ produces..you think ONE nightmare might be over -- it might just slide into the next of a different ''color" in the nightmare.

we'll simply have to see where it goes.
 

teddytennisfan

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For real? Well, applying one drop rule, he is also first yellow president, isn't he?

obama\s biological father was an african - a kenyan scholarship student in the USA --

and his mother married again later -- and obama was brought up in indonesia (although born in hawaii and later brought up by his white grnndma on his mother's side when his mother died) -

his white mother - upon marrying that step-father - who was Indonesian --

is documented to have been a real CIA agent -- who worked as a ''social worker and anthropologist" supposedly to study social history in indonesia of course -- DURING the 1960's when the

very independent-minded and socialist leaning SUKARNO was toppled by a CIA led coup...HER task was - after a right wing suharto regime was put in place -- to IDENTIFY ''communists and leftists" everywhere in indonesia , particularly in the provinces in order to ensure NO anti-american - anti-capitalist ledership or movement ever survived -- basically ''a clean up lady"
 

teddytennisfan

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For real? Well, applying one drop rule, he is also first yellow president, isn't he?


if you want to understand even more deeply where this black president really is coming from -- as i said -- CIA mother responsible for overseeing the complete ''clean-up" of communist, or socialist ''thought" in indonesia in the 1960's -- and putting in power - in education, in EVERYTHING a completely capitalist system -- (indonesia WAS a socialist leaning country like iran, iraq, libya were, for example) and thriving quite nicely thank you very much --

decades later -- indonesia is the TROPHY of american/western capitalism -- even MORE so than in the USA -- TURBO-CAPITALISM at its 'best " ..

PLUS the rise of very radical, xenophobic islamists - as the USA AND west used indonesia long ago as one of the first 'experiments' in which to introduce wahhabist 'saudi' style sunni islam

which has now basically taken over..that's an entire 2 generations worth of usa-western led 'experiment'

and of course little talked about in the 'global media'.

AUSTRALIA had a huge hand in that -- in toppling the SUKARNO socialist system by 1965 -- at around the time of obama's elementary school there with his ''anthropologist" mother working in the ''villages" -- of course to weave her CIA financed NETWORK of ''counter communist, socialist" operation - basically to get rid of every potential influence ...against the oncoming american'=-western corporate and system take-over.

TODAY -- in support of the right wing junta that has been established EVER SINCE 1965 -- THE other 'controlling" force is of course this same radicalized ''super nationalist" radicalized islam - helped of coruse in its spread by -- who else ? the Hundreds of billions of money of saudi arabia - the same one that funds global terrorism

as a TOOL of american/western 'regime controlled chaos". along which to of course introduce this turbo-capitalism.

that's the basic 20 c history of indonesia in which BARACK'S MOMMY played a critical role...

this is of course quite well-known among asians as a matter of course about those decades.

it should benoted that in the 1980's there were those genocidal massacres by the indonesian - now far -right pro USA/WESTERN regime over the EAST TIMOR island natives...
which of course the western humanitarian's CRIED crocodile tears...about...

and then USED THAT same ''genocide by the indonesian government" -- THEIR CLIENT of many decades by then since the 1965 destruction of SUKARNO'S independent and socialist government -- with its TRADITIONALLY very moderate sunni islam -

as a justification to then 'SAVE TIMOR" -- and THEN specifically - the australians were the ''representatives' of the western cabal governments -- to come to the ''humanitarian rescue"

and give support to TIMOR ''INDEPENDENCE FROM INDONESIA" ....probably having made a bargain with the indonesian government, i wouldnt' be surpriosed --

AND THEN upon ''autonomy and independence" by east timor ...

HELPED THEMSELVES TO writing TIMOR'S laws - which MEANT OF COURSE

australian, american and other western corporatiosn came to drink up on the NATURAL GAS AND OIL AND MINERAL RESERVES that were discovered just before that ''genocide" by the indonesian regime...

see ho wCLEVER they are?

SET UP A PEOPLE to be massacred by a 'BRUTAL REGIME" - that just happens to be an ally or was in a long string of similar regimes set up DECADES before THAT (1965) -

then CRY crocodile tears -- to justify ''coming in to help to independence" and THEN put DOWN ANY revolt or refusal to accept the ''democratic laws of the new free country"

with all the happy corporate ROBBERY of THAT small country's RICH OIL AND GAS that was recently ''prospected" by technology experts of -- who else -- but the western corporations.

FEW PEOPLE KNOW -- that right after the second world war --

australian scientists actually PROPOSED to their government to come up with a secret chemical program -- genetically specificed to export and introduce into FOOD programs throughout ASIA

for the express purpose of ''population culling" for the USA, australia and UK -- leading the way -- to 'control the population' of non-westerners...

did people know that/ ? even afica was alreaady considered to COMPLETELY eradicate the black peoples ...i kinow it is shocking -- because it sounds like it comes from science fiction...

but HITLER had NOTHING on them .....

they didn't quite go through with it -- but it was actually proposed --

now IMAGINE wha tGMO'S and ''VACCINATION" PROGRAMS are like today as BILL GATES AND COMPANY ''kindly suggest"

to AFRICA -
etc where there are RICH LANDS TO BE HAD..BY A CERTAIN u know how ''race''...

so -- don't be surprised WHY these wars in the middle east PRODUCE exactly what they produce -- from TERROR tp millions starved and migrants -- etc....

it is FAR MORE HORRIFIC than people realize - in its TRUE purpose and its nature of bestiality -- uncomfortable as that is to confront....

================================
journal-neo.org
Jakarta Riots: What Went Wrong? | New Eastern Outlook
Author: Andre Vltchek
An enormous rally shook Jakarta on the 4th November. With unusual zeal, between 50 and 100 thousand protesters managed to trash several parts of the capital. Cars were torched; traffic in the center came to a standstill. Police fired teargas canisters at the protesters and water cannons were used. According to the AP, one elderly man died and scores of demonstrators and policemen were injured.

These were the biggest demos in recent years. Considering how many profound problems Indonesia is facing, the country is shockingly compliant.

Were these protests against the on-going genocide in Papua, where Indonesian forces are massacring the mostly defenseless local population on behalf of Western companies?

Or perhaps, were they against the corrupt turbo capitalist regime, which has governed this virtually collapsed nation ever since the 1965 US-sponsored military coup against the progressive President and the father of the Non-Aligned movement, Sukarno?

Frankly, none of the above! In Indonesia, the horrors committed in Papua are not discussed publicly at all, and capitalism remains sacred here; even the poorest of the poor are conditioned to revere it.

The riots were actually over alleged ‘blasphemy’, and the participants consisted mainly of hard-line Muslim fundamentalists. Lately, religious ‘topics’ are the only ones that are managing to mobilize crowds of ‘outraged’ citizens.

So what went wrong this time? Actually, nothing really!

As reported by the BBC and others, “Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, a Christian, is the first ethnic Chinese to hold the governor’s post in the capital of the majority Muslim Indonesia.” His nickname is ‘Ahok’, he is extremely popular, and he is one of the very few Indonesian politicians who are determinedly cracking down on corruption while introducing various social programs for the poor.

Most Indonesian hardcore Islamists are extreme-right wingers. They regularly attack and disperse even the most ‘benign’ political gatherings where the introduction of free medical care and other social benefits are shyly suggested and discussed. To them, everything social stinks of ‘Communism’, and Communism has been banned here ever since the 1965/66 Suharto bloodlettings.

The religious rightwing cannot win politically; therefore it regularly plants seeds of disinformation and chaos.

“Ahok said, during a meeting with voters, that there are those who are misleading the population, while using verses of the Holy Koran,” explained Ms. Ira Muslim, a Jakarta-based engineer. “They say that people should not vote for Ahok, because the Koran says that Muslims are not supposed to have a non-Muslim, kafir, as a leader. Nine days later, a man called Buni Yani, edited the official video into a much short version. He omitted several words in the transcript, and the document totally changed its meaning, reading that Muslims are actually deceived by the Koran itself.”

Mr. Buni Yani (interestingly a graduate of Ohio University, Southeast Asian Studies) later admitted his deed, which should have closed the matter. But it didn’t.

The demands of Ahok’s opponents soon ranged from dragging him to the courts, and to directly murdering him. Several preachers demanded Ahok’s blood, despite the fact that the two largest Muslim organizations in the country ordered their members to stay home and not to join the protests.

Professor Isna Wijayani, a lecturer at Bina Darma University in Palembang, explained:

“I personally like the way Ahok works. As for those ‘religious statements’, controversy could have been easily resolved if things would have been openly discussed. But Indonesian mass media does not want people to stay calm; it ignites dangerous passions. Anyway, even if Ahok would be guilty of blasphemy, things could have been resolved within the legal framework, not by trashing the capital city.”

Most Indonesian linguists agree that there was no trace of blasphemy in the original discourse by the Governor of Jakarta. Ms. Yeyen Maryani from the Ministry of Education and Culture publicly stated it, and so did many others.

For now, the riots are over, but the anti-Ahok activists demand that decisive legal action is taken within two weeks, “or else”!

*

Who is behind this embarrassing mess? Surely it is not just some bunch of religious fanatics. In Indonesia, things are never that simple!

Mr. Agus Suhartono shared with me his belief that there are clear signs of the involvement from the highest ranks of the Indonesian political ‘elites’:

“The situation in Indonesia is now very dangerous. SBY [Susilo Banbang Yudhoyono, former President of Indonesia, a retired general] has been using his leverage to stir up the conflict at any cost. Ahok incident is just the tip of the iceberg. I am afraid that the real problem is much bigger than that.”

Most likely it is: SBY’s son is now running against ‘Ahok’ for the post of Governor of Jakarta.

“What do they really want?” Ms. Susy Nataliwati, a researcher of Japanese Studies at the University of Indonesia, asked this rhetorical question: “It appears that they want Ahok to be disqualified from running for his second term in office”.

While the Western mass media is only talking about the blasphemy case and the radical Islamist groups, the true issues are much bigger: corrupt, right wing, pro-Western and pro-business elites of Indonesia are jealously guarding their ruling position in this already plundered and devastated archipelago. There is still plenty of booty above and below the surface! After 1965, money and ‘control’ over people is all that matters.

Is this the final assault against Ahok, or just a warning? The current President of Indonesia, Joko Widodo (nicknamed “Jokowi”), began his political career as a ‘pro-people reformist’, but after he encountered determined hostility, even menace, from the true rulers of this country, he lost his courage and briskly converted himself into a spineless ‘centrist’.

And how does Islamic extremism fit into all this mayhem? For decades it was actually only a tool of the corrupt generals and extreme right wing market fundamentalists, many of whom were not even Muslims.

Andre Vltchek is philosopher, filmmaker, investigative journalist and writer who has recently finished his new novel Aurora, especially for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook.”

0
 

teddytennisfan

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For real? Well, applying one drop rule, he is also first yellow president, isn't he?
journal-neo.org
How Come Washington’s Humanitarian Concerns Always Result in Population Control | New Eastern Outlook
Author: Jean Perier
Alleged humanitarian efforts have always been a rather important aspect of the state propaganda campaign carried out by the White House and its media. We’ve seen Washington using its pocket NGOs to fight against the alleged “humanitarian crimes” of the Syrian government, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba and other states that Washington declared its enemies.

This large-scale campaign that is said to be driven by “common human values” has been supported by a number of modern American oligarchs.

Among those “humanitarian champions” one may find the founder of Microsoft and, perhaps, one the richest businessmen in the world, Bill Gates, who likes to be represented as a benevolent philanthropist of some sorts. By using the so-called “Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,” this richest man on earth is trying to put on a mask of the official representative of the US political elites that is carrying on the fight against poverty, food shortages and diseases in Africa and other poor regions of the world.

However, in reality such “activities” of Bill Gates and the White House are focused on the use of progress to reverse the effect of humanitarian projects, namely to reduce the population of the planet, or, in other words – to pursue eugenics.

This statement is confirmed by Gates’ remarks to the invitation-only Long Beach, California TED2010 Conference, in a speech titled, “Innovating to Zero!” Along with the scientifically absurd proposition of reducing manmade CO2 emissions worldwide to zero by 2050, approximately four and a half minutes into the talk, Gates declares, “First we got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That’s headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.” (emphasis added).

Thus, one of the most powerful men in the world has openly declared that he expects vaccines to reduce the world population. Mind you, that when Bill Gates speaks about vaccines, he knows what he is talking about. In January 2010 at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Gates announced that over the next decade his foundation would allocate 10 billion dollars to develop and deliver new vaccines to developing countries.

We’ve heard this position on the control over the world population by pursuing the “reduction of the number of third-world inhabitants” before. Australian microbiologist and Nobel Price laureate Macfarlane Burnet in 1947 urged the Australian government to develop and unleash biological weapons against “over-populated countries of Southeast Asia.” In particular, during a closed meeting in 1947 with The New Weapons and Equipment Development Committee microbiologist recommended to create a group with a mandate to create secret biological weapons components that could affect food in such a way that it would allow Canberra to control the population of Indonesia and other Asian countries.

A similar objective was pursued by the secret program codenamed Project Coast, during which US intelligence agencies started testing such viruses as Ebola and Marburg fevers on the South African black population. The US Centers for Disease Control was delivering those viruses from its secret laboratories to Africa in a bid to create biological and chemical weapons, which were aimed at sterilizing and even exterminating the black population of this African country, while murdering political opponents of the apartheid.

Today, in the age of high-tech novelties, Bill Gates has pioneered the electronic direction of eugenics, offering to implant the “undesired” part of the population with an electronic remotely controlled chip that would deprive women of reproductive capacity for a total of 16 years.

However, this is hardly the whole truth about the “humanitarian concerns” of the White House and its “humanitarian patrons”, who, under the guise of fighting for the greater good, continue searching ways to control the population of the planet, using both the advances of modern science and armed conflicts, like those that we’ve witnessed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and other countries.

Jean Périer is an independent researcher and analyst and a renowned expert on the Near and Middle East, exclusively for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”

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06-15gates_lg-1024x682.jpg
 

brokenshoelace

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Oh please don't over-react, what is Trump going to do, force all immigrants, all black people, all Muslim people out of USA? Half of the things he says are knee jerk reactions to what they accuse him of, what the opposing camp started first. On the other hand we have the select circle who say one thing and then go and do completely opposite or don't bother with those issues at all. Thank god for all the leaks that showed the true face of the candidate. Did you read any of that? You are OK with their policies all over Middle East, with destruction and killing of all Muslim countries, starting with Iraq then Libya, Syria, Yemen? Countries with difficult and delicate history and problems that were so carelessly handled by Clintons and Obama? Children being used as shields so that points could be made about how bad one side or the other is? Who caused that? Forcing millions of people out of their homes so yeah they get desperate and angry and they tend to cause problems across Europe. I am still waiting to hear what is one good thing that they did to benefit others.

Here is what a Muslim woman from USA who voted for Trump had to say and how rudely she was cut off at the end because they didn't like what she had to say:



This entire post is one gigantic strawman.

Did I ever say Trump will persecute all blacks, Muslims, etc... and force them out? If the only line of defense to Trump's racism is "Oh well it's not like he's going to throw everyone out of the country," then the US has just elected one terrible piece of shit of a human being.

I'm simply stating a very basic fact that can't be disputed: Trump's rhetoric is blatantly racist. Words, where I come from, have meaning. You can't just throw such racist and hateful words like that and then use cop-outs such as "it's not like he'll force everyone out."

And I don't know what are you talking about with the other camp starting it first... The other camp triggered Trump's racism? Did they ask him to claim Barrack Obama wasn't born in the US and needed to provide a birth certificate? Also, if a woman provokes me into calling her "a worthless cunt who needs to stay in the kitchen" (hypothetically, and no I'm not saying Trump said that), would that make me any less of a misogynistic asshole? So I really fail to see the argument there.

And you're lecturing me about the US foreign policy in the Middle East... Billie, I live in the Middle East. I live in Lebanon and am terrified of the US foreign policy, which has been a disaster, as I repeatedly mentioned in this thread. If you missed that, that's fine, but don't go around assuming that thinking Trump is a racist piece of shit means absolving the other party...

But, here's a question re: foreign policy and bombing women and children. When Trump vows to "bomb the shit out of ISIS," what do you think that means? Genius drones that only kill the bad guys while sparing every civilian life?
 
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britbox

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No worries :)
Farage saw how things went during Brexit. He saw how unwilling the electorate was to believe anything that establishment politicians said, and yet they lapped up the false promises made about what would happen after Brexit. It's not a stretch to imagine him telling his mate Trump. Don't worry about anything the establishment say, the people won't listen, they'll listen to you if you hear their anger. That doesn't mean he had to participate in the lies, he just had to see it happen. As for Trump lying, you're not seriously going to argue the point are you?

Most politicians lie or bend the truth at the best. It's not a new phenomenon with Donald Trump.
 
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