US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

Indeed Kieran, The bloat in the public sector is astronomical... and by public sector we should include the private/public partnerships where corporations charge bloated amounts to the taxpayer for services that would never stand up in the private sector. There is little value for money.

Wages are a fraction of the cost too - endless conferences, low value studies and expense claims that make your eyes bleed...

You also have to wonder about appointing people are supposedly "qualified" and "experienced" in some of the public sector roles.... it largely means more of the same.

Maybe fresh eyes are required to gut the system completely and rebuild from the ground up. Unfortunately there are so many beaks in the trough and powerful vested interests who benefit from retaining the status quo, it's a pretty tough task.

I think this is somewhat cynical. Though you are right to call out the private sector in terms of their part. For example, in the US, if health insurance and medications weren't so inflated, then Medicare wouldn't be so inflated.

I think that bureaucrats serve a function, especially in a population of 335 million in the US. These are also good, middle-class government jobs, with pensions. It serves us all that there continue to be such jobs, lest we forget. More importantly, these people serve a function. Is there bloat? I'm sure. Similarly to unions, which I am generally in favor of, but sometimes also inflate the staffing needs, that over-burdens producers. These things can be trimmed. But should not be gutted.

I absolutely agree that Trump is trying to appoint people who are not qualified or experienced, neither in the public sector, nor in the departments he's trying to have them head. But you can't just gut these agencies, because you want to. They serve actual functions. And appointing incompetent people to head them is the way to disaster.

 

[Kieran]

What’s so great about this is that it’s difficult to tell if it’s real. So many people having humiliating public meltdowns and saying more or less the same thing. It’s 2 minutes long.

 

[tented]

^there's definitely a huge amount of bloat that can be eliminated. But Congress is responsible for a huge amount of it. I rather suspect that Musk and Co. will learn quickly that bureaucracy and Washington politics has a level of inertia backing them that even prodigious minds such as theirs will be flummoxed. At the very least I expect that to be the case if he's going to keep running Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink and his other companies. I simply cannot believe that any one individual can meet the challenge even without his other responsibilities. But my goodness, the libertarian in me wishes them the very best of luck!

There’s no way the Trump/Musk partnership will last. Trump’s unquenchably thirsty ego won’t permit it. The minute Musk is given more credit than Trump, it’s over.

 

[Federberg]

There’s no way the Trump/Musk partnership will last. Trump’s unquenchably thirsty ego won’t permit it. The minute Musk is given more credit than Trump, it’s over.

Lol! I forgot to add the orange one's ego to the forces against anything Musk might try to do

 

[britbox]

I think this is somewhat cynical. Though you are right to call out the private sector in terms of their part. For example, in the US, if health insurance and medications weren't so inflated, then Medicare wouldn't be so inflated.

I think that bureaucrats serve a function, especially in a population of 335 million in the US. These are also good, middle-class government jobs, with pensions. It serves us all that there continue to be such jobs, lest we forget. More importantly, these people serve a function. Is there bloat? I'm sure. Similarly to unions, which I am generally in favor of, but sometimes also inflate the staffing needs, that over-burdens producers. These things can be trimmed. But should not be gutted.

I absolutely agree that Trump is trying to appoint people who are not qualified or experienced, neither in the public sector, nor in the departments he's trying to have them head. But you can't just gut these agencies, because you want to. They serve actual functions. And appointing incompetent people to head them is the way to disaster.

Kieran was talking about his experience with Ireland and mine came largely from the UK. (Yes, I know it's a US Politics thread...) but it seems to be a general trend across the West.

The west is dealing with an epidemic of poor health - rocketing obesity, cancers, diabetes, autism, ADHD, mental health etc.... while waiting lists extend, front line resources are stretched to the hilt.

I associate competence with outcomes not experience. Nobody seems interested in tackling root causes. Yes, I am cynical about it. It's like people keep buying mops to clear up the mess from a leaking pipe without solving the leak.

You will always need a level of bureacracy in government but there is also so much duplication and many fiefdoms within propping it up.

 

[Federberg]

This is apropos

 

[shawnbm]

^ Mr. Sowell is a national treasure.

 

[mrzz]

But you can't just gut these agencies, because you want to. They serve actual functions. And appointing incompetent people to head them is the way to disaster.

You are technically correct, but experience has shown that those agencies, for good and for bad, are resilient.

We had a similar experience here with Bolsonaro, who has some common ground with Trump (but waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than people like to talk about, they are different kinds of stupid). Anyway, Bolsonaro first cabinet was nothing short of a monstruosity, it was simply on another level of crazyness. And, guess what, the country survived. Being completely honest, nothing happened, completely business as usual. They took the worst possible decisions, made the most idiotic comments of all time, blah blah blah. Still nothing happened.

After that, I am pretty sure that people can vote for satan or god or whover and nothing will actually ever change.... (I mean, not because of elections).

 

[Moxie]

You are technically correct, but experience has shown that those agencies, for good and for bad, are resilient.

We had a similar experience here with Bolsonaro, who has some common ground with Trump (but waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than people like to talk about, they are different kinds of stupid). Anyway, Bolsonaro first cabinet was nothing short of a monstruosity, it was simply on another level of crazyness. And, guess what, the country survived. Being completely honest, nothing happened, completely business as usual. They took the worst possible decisions, made the most idiotic comments of all time, blah blah blah. Still nothing happened.

After that, I am pretty sure that people can vote for satan or god or whover and nothing will actually ever change.... (I mean, not because of elections).

I like your optimism, and faith in institutions to withstand some buffeting. I've always felt the same. Trump did some damage to institutions in his first term, but there were people in his way. This time, he's prepared to really surround himself with sycophants, AND he has Congress on his side. After that attempted coupe on Jan. 6th, my faith is more shaken. And he has his Project 2025 Playbook. I have to believe that the institutions are strong enough to stand, as is the Constitution, but Trump 2.0 is a new brand of crazy and lethal.

 

[Moxie]

Well, Matt Gaetz has withdrawn his name from consideration as AG, hitting a new land speed record from nomination to withdrawal. Not sure if that means there is fire under his accusations, but the Senate wasn't having it. And he's also resigned from the House, so good riddance, anyway.

 

[Front242]

Well, Matt Gaetz has withdrawn his name from consideration as AG, hitting a new land speed record from nomination to withdrawal. Not sure if that means there is fire under his accusations, but the Senate wasn't having it. And he's also resigned from the House, so good riddance, anyway.

No surprise to see a demoncrat supporter say good riddance to someone who destroyed their side in court so many times. Biden sniffs and fondles kids under 10. Who do you think is worse here ? She was 17, not 7...

 

[Moxie]

No surprise to see a demoncrat supporter say good riddance to someone who destroyed their side in court so many times.

In what court? He's not really a lawyer, he's been a Congressman most of his career.

Biden sniffs and fondles kids under 10. Who do you think is worse here ? She was 17, not 7...

You are incapable of impartiality. Biden doesn't fondle children. Gaetz, however, has been accused of having sex with a minor, using illicit drugs, and sex trafficking. An associate of Gaetz's is doing 11 years. He gave names, though those 7 or so men have yet to be publicly named. Gaetz resigned from the House, and withdrew his name from consideration as AG for a reason. You really should pick your battles better.

 

[Fiero425]

In what court? He's not really a lawyer, he's been a Congressman most of his career.

You are incapable of impartiality. Biden doesn't fondle children. Gaetz, however, has been accused of having sex with a minor, using illicit drugs, and sex trafficking. An associate of Gaetz's is doing 11 years. He gave names, though those 7 or so men have yet to be publicly named. Gaetz resigned from the House, and withdrew his name from consideration as AG for a reason. You really should pick your battles better.

So they finally came across someone so loathsome, even the most corrupt Party wouldn't approve his candidacy for Attorney General!

 

[Moxie]

So they finally came across someone so loathsome, even the most corrupt Party wouldn't approve his candidacy for Attorney General!

Let's face it...even party loyalists gasped at this choice for AG. It showed a bit of spine that they're stood up to Trump on this one, but let's see how far it goes. I do hope they find that Fox News star Hegseth unqualified as Sec. of Defense.

 

[Moxie]

Nice pick for Sec. of Education, accused of abetting sexual abuse of children. She didn't do it, but did she turn a blind eye? The Catholic Church and others have been sanctioned for the same types of cover-up. Shall we put her in charge of the welfare of children? Surely there is someone more qualified than this.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/21/business/linda-mcmahon-abuse-wwe-trump-education/index.html

 

[Kieran]

This video outlines very clearly why some people from minorities are waking up to the Democrats and the simplistic, divisive race hustlers, and thinking for themselves, which is considered treachery and race hate by some people, who have a vested interest in keeping black people in their place.

5 mins.

 

[Federberg]

probably a tough listen for anti-Trumpers, but necessary. A couple of things...

• This wasn't a vote for Trump, it was a vote AGAINST Democrats, particularly Biden
• RFK helped Trump
• Dems need to stop getting celebrity endorsements, it's not a positive, it might be a NEGATIVE
• Dems need to STOP, identity politics. There's nothing more insulting to the electorate, particularly the group they are trying to appease than the idea that one of their own is sufficient for their needs. Rather find the individual, EVEN IF IT'S AN OLD WHITE MAN, who'll cater to their desires.
• one of the problems with identity politics is that you spend so much time worrying about offending one section of society you end up pissing everyone off!

 

[Kieran]

probably a tough listen for anti-Trumpers, but necessary. A couple of things...

• This wasn't a vote for Trump, it was a vote AGAINST Democrats, particularly Biden
• RFK helped Trump
• Dems need to stop getting celebrity endorsements, it's not a positive, it might be a NEGATIVE
• Dems need to STOP, identity politics. There's nothing more insulting to the electorate, particularly the group they are trying to appease than the idea that one of their own is sufficient for their needs. Rather find the individual, EVEN IF IT'S AN OLD WHITE MAN, who'll cater to their desires.
• one of the problems with identity politics is that you spend so much time worrying about offending one section of society you end up pissing everyone off!

It was always a disappointing feature of politics when rock stars became mouthpieces for the establishment. It reached peak absurdity when Neil Young chucked his guitar out of the pram trying to get Joe Rogan cancelled, and essentially shilled for big pharma and big government. Totalitarian thinking infected the once-were rebels. It made me wonder if sixties hippies and seventies punk rockers and eighties gangsta rappers would exist in an alternate reality where Hillary was elected. Would that have soothed their loins? That people voted the way they voted? I mean, was that what all the furious rebelliousness and anti-establishment routines were about?

Elvis being filmed from the belt up was really an establishment hack because Eisenhower was president and Sid Vicious would have been a librarian instead, if Labour won the 1975 election? Except, of course, they did win it.

Were rockers disaffected because there were republicans? And Thatcher? Or was there something more primitive unleashed by brilliant strait-jacketed youths? This is why we have bland pop stars now. They say nothing, and mean even less.

People who were waiting for Taylor Swifts views on the election should be banned from voting. Name them and shame them. Swift showed herself to be similarly out of touch, when she deigned to drop her glove of wisdom onto the floor. Who cares what Clooney thinks, from his mansion up in the stars? Why do the Democrats love celebrities? Same reason they pretend to love black people - they think it reflects virtuously on them, and it impresses the mightily gullible…

 

[Federberg]

Why do the Democrats love celebrities? Same reason they pretend to love black people - they think it reflects virtuously on them, and it impresses the mightily gullible…

BOOM!!

 

[Moxie]

It was always a disappointing feature of politics when rock stars became mouthpieces for the establishment. It reached peak absurdity when Neil Young chucked his guitar out of the pram trying to get Joe Rogan cancelled, and essentially shilled for big pharma and big government. Totalitarian thinking infected the once-were rebels. It made me wonder if sixties hippies and seventies punk rockers and eighties gangsta rappers would exist in an alternate reality where Hillary was elected. Would that have soothed their loins? That people voted the way they voted? I mean, was that what all the furious rebelliousness and anti-establishment routines were about?

Elvis being filmed from the belt up was really an establishment hack because Eisenhower was president and Sid Vicious would have been a librarian instead, if Labour won the 1975 election? Except, of course, they did win it.

Were rockers disaffected because there were republicans? And Thatcher? Or was there something more primitive unleashed by brilliant strait-jacketed youths? This is why we have bland pop stars now. They say nothing, and mean even less.

People who were waiting for Taylor Swifts views on the election should be banned from voting. Name them and shame them. Swift showed herself to be similarly out of touch, when she deigned to drop her glove of wisdom onto the floor. Who cares what Clooney thinks, from his mansion up in the stars? Why do the Democrats love celebrities? Same reason they pretend to love black people - they think it reflects virtuously on them, and it impresses the mightily gullible…

I hope it made you feel better to get this off your chest, but most of it doesn't even make sense, tbh. Elvis and Eisenhower, and Sid Vicious a librarian? WTF?

And, you know what? A lot of Democrats ARE black people. And famous people. The ones who are really pretending to care about the needs of the common person are the Republicans. The one impressing the "mightily gullible" is Trump. He cares about no one but himself.