US Politics Thread

[Kieran]

I hope it made you feel better to get this off your chest, but most of it doesn't even make sense, tbh. Elvis and Eisenhower, and Sid Vicious a librarian? WTF?

You didn’t get it.

And, you know what? A lot of Democrats ARE black people. And famous people. The ones who are really pretending to care about the needs of the common person are the Republicans. The one impressing the "mightily gullible" is Trump. He cares about no one but himself.

And a lot of republicans are black, though according to your president, they ain’t black. Unless they vote the right way, they ain’t black. Black people seem to have seen through this BS. They’re no longer your mostly peacefully rioting noble savages..

 

[Kieran]

Ah well, I’m sure the president did his best:

 

[Moxie]

You didn’t get it.

No, I got that it was a general rant about celebs endorsing candidates and rockers selling out, but it was Elvis or Eisenhower who decided not to broadcast the "pelvis," so that was random and meaningless. A lot of it was a bit of a word salad.

And a lot of republicans are black, though according to your president, they ain’t black. Unless they vote the right way, they ain’t black. Black people seem to have seen through this BS. They’re no longer your mostly peacefully rioting noble savages..

It is not true that "a lot of republicans are black." You can see it here. Basically, 12% of Blacks in the US are affiliated with the GOP, vs. 83% Democratic.

As to that quote, I'm not going to address a Biden gaffe since you never seem to care or catalogue all of the insulting, rude, uncivilized things that Trump says on a daily basis.

 

[Kieran]

No, I got that it was a general rant about celebs endorsing candidates and rockers selling out, but it was Elvis or Eisenhower who decided not to broadcast the "pelvis," so that was random and meaningless. A lot of it was a bit of a word salad.

No, you missed the point completely. The point was about rock stars who used to be rebellious and anti-establishment, but now they think a solution is Hillary, the democrats, big pharma. They’ve become bland and neutered establishment hacks, and not only that but they’re often totalitarian in their approach.

Give it another go.

It is not true that "a lot of republicans are black." You can see it here. Basically, 12% of Blacks in the US are affiliated with the GOP, vs. 83% Democratic.

Well whatever the stats are, they just changed with that election. Which is a good thing for minorities. You can’t take them for granted any more. You can’t tell black people they ain’t black if they think for themselves.

As to that quote, I'm not going to address a Biden gaffe since you never seem to care or catalogue all of the insulting, rude, uncivilized things that Trump says on a daily basis.

It wasn’t a gaffe. A gaffe is something completely different to what was. It was shifty as feck…it was a lie…

 

[Federberg]

^Biden said he would be a one term President, then changed his mind.

Biden said he wouldn't pardon his son. Then changed his mind.

Way to make Trump look good! Sigh..

 

[Moxie]

No, you missed the point completely. The point was about rock stars who used to be rebellious and anti-establishment, but now they think a solution is Hillary, the democrats, big pharma. They’ve become bland and neutered establishment hacks, and not only that but they’re often totalitarian in their approach.

No, I understood that's what you were going for, anyway, but it was pretty muddy and with a lot of kitchen sink added.

Give it another go.

Well whatever the stats are, they just changed with that election. Which is a good thing for minorities. You can’t take them for granted any more. You can’t tell black people they ain’t black if they think for themselves.

You misunderstand the distinction between party affiliation and crossing party lines in one election. And it's still overwhelmingly white that voted for Trump. You can look up the stats yourself.

It wasn’t a gaffe. A gaffe is something completely different to what was. It was shifty as feck…it was a lie…

Compared to all of the "shifty as feck" things that Trump says? I'll entertain your outrage when you care about the far more outrageous things that Trump says, particularly on the issue of race.

 

[Moxie]

Now that basically all of the votes are counted, this is an interesting thing that came out of the various stats:

If Harris had won 1.8% more of the vote in each of only Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, she'd have won the election.

 

[Moxie]

^Biden said he would be a one term President, then changed his mind.

Biden said he wouldn't pardon his son. Then changed his mind.

Way to make Trump look good! Sigh..

Isn't this just another example of making a false equivalency in outrageous behavior? Trump will use it as an excuse to pardon himself and the Jan. 6th insurrectionists, but he's already said he would, so that's an excuse after the horses left the barn. Trump already pardoned his father-in-law in his last administration, anyway.

I do, however, agree that it's a bad look for Biden to have gone back on what he said about pardoning his son, but, given Trump and what he is, like a lot of Democrats right now, I guess Biden figures, "Oh, fuck it." The moral high ground hasn't gotten us anywhere since Trump appeared on the scene, at the very least.

 

[Kieran]

No, I understood that's what you were going for, anyway, but it was pretty muddy and with a lot of kitchen sink added.

You misunderstand the distinction between party affiliation and crossing party lines in one election. And it's still overwhelmingly white that voted for Trump. You can look up the stats yourself.

Compared to all of the "shifty as feck" things that Trump says? I'll entertain your outrage when you care about the far more outrageous things that Trump says, particularly on the issue of race.

I have to keep repeating to democrats here, I don’t like trump. You’re all so “committed” to the one path that you think that when the democrats are criticised that the critic must be a lover of trump.

How about you try looking at your own side and seeing them through other peoples eyes? I know that requires objectivity, which is difficult when you’re a party person, but someday you’ll find you’ll have to..

 

[Kieran]

This is quite well done, regarding Kamala Harris recent rambling drunk-call to Americans, allegedly. Trigger warning, if you thought she was a good idea: it’s very funny, and contains AI. Nominally a thanksgiving message, it’s now known as her Drunksgiving speech.

Lasts 3’22”

 

[Federberg]

Isn't this just another example of making a false equivalency in outrageous behavior? Trump will use it as an excuse to pardon himself and the Jan. 6th insurrectionists, but he's already said he would, so that's an excuse after the horses left the barn. Trump already pardoned his father-in-law in his last administration, anyway.

I do, however, agree that it's a bad look for Biden to have gone back on what he said about pardoning his son, but, given Trump and what he is, like a lot of Democrats right now, I guess Biden figures, "Oh, fuck it." The moral high ground hasn't gotten us anywhere since Trump appeared on the scene, at the very least.

it's not really false equivalency if Trump can use it to pardon insurrectionists and even worse himself. It's real and it's a practical effect of what Biden has done. Biden was not thinking about the country, the rule of law and the associated consequences. It's bad. I'm not giving Trump excuses or a pass, I'm literally saying that I'm frustrated that a precedent has been set now that Trump can get away with using

 

[Moxie]

it's not really false equivalency if Trump can use it to pardon insurrectionists and even worse himself. It's real and it's a practical effect of what Biden has done. Biden was not thinking about the country, the rule of law and the associated consequences. It's bad. I'm not giving Trump excuses or a pass, I'm literally saying that I'm frustrated that a precedent has been set now that Trump can get away with using

I know what you're saying, and I did say it was bad. All I'm saying is that Trump was going to do those things, anyway. He has no shame, and needs no excuses. Same as he'll insist that he has a mandate, based on what he's calling a "landslide" victory, which he doesn't have. He didn't even get 50% of the vote. You're comparing a normal politician to Trump, which I say is a false equivalency. I don't like that Biden has pardoned his son, and yes, the Republicans will have a field day with it, but it doesn't make a difference to what Trump is going to do, anyway. He's already proven himself to be corrupt and unethical.

 

[Moxie]

I have to keep repeating to democrats here, I don’t like trump. You’re all so “committed” to the one path that you think that when the democrats are criticised that the critic must be a lover of trump.

How about you try looking at your own side and seeing them through other peoples eyes? I know that requires objectivity, which is difficult when you’re a party person, but someday you’ll find you’ll have to..

No, I know you don't like Trump, but you don't call him out, either, for much of the horrible things he says. You have to admit that you reserve most of your criticism here for Dems and liberals...by a lot. I was pointing out inaccuracies and incoherence in what you recently posted. That doesn't make me blinded by party politics, and unaware of what happened in the recent election. This is still a debate forum, and I think it's fair to point out inaccurate statements.

 

[Kieran]

No, I know you don't like Trump, but you don't call him out, either, for much of the horrible things he says. You have to admit that you reserve most of your criticism here for Dems and liberals...by a lot. I was pointing out inaccuracies and incoherence in what you recently posted. That doesn't make me blinded by party politics, and unaware of what happened in the recent election. This is still a debate forum, and I think it's fair to point out inaccurate statements.

Why do I have to call Trump out? The whole of the world’s media and social media is doing that. Meanwhile, they cover up for the democrats, including election interference in 2020. The democrats, remember, are trying to revolutionise society. No small thing, that. Gender, race. You name it, they’re deliberately turning the wheels to try make what’s truthful into something that’s merely fickle opinion. When you have a party that’s so in thrall to activists, and so opposed to objective truth, history and science, that’s a dangerous party.

Bill Clinton was a good campaigner, he understood that it’s the economy, stupid. Modern democrats are too ashamed of America to put American people’s interests first. People don’t want to be racially profiled and marginalised because they’re guilty of being born white. No more than they want to ghettoised for being black. You all live in the most successful social experiment in history, yet you act as if it’s all been a terrible mistake…

 

[Moxie]

Why do I have to call Trump out? The whole of the world’s media and social media is doing that. Meanwhile, they cover up for the democrats, including election interference in 2020. The democrats, remember, are trying to revolutionise society. No small thing, that. Gender, race. You name it, they’re deliberately turning the wheels to try make what’s truthful into something that’s merely fickle opinion. When you have a party that’s so in thrall to activists, and so opposed to objective truth, history and science, that’s a dangerous party.

Bill Clinton was a good campaigner, he understood that it’s the economy, stupid. Modern democrats are too ashamed of America to put American people’s interests first. People don’t want to be racially profiled and marginalised because they’re guilty of being born white. No more than they want to ghettoised for being black. You all live in the most successful social experiment in history, yet you act as if it’s all been a terrible mistake…

It's fine to say that, but recognize that almost all of the above is your opinion, not objective truth.

 

[Kieran]

It's fine to say that, but recognize that almost all of the above is your opinion, not objective truth.

I’m glad you gave yourself some leeway, and said “almost”.

On gender and race, the left believe their activists instead of truth. And they encourage the activists to try to change society. They think that history is only true if it’s negative about the west, and America in particular. And thankfully, I think the tide has turned in America against that sort of thinking. Peak nonsense has been reached, and it’s downhill from here. Views contrary to the prevailing culture will be listened to, and not beaten up or cancelled. The damage done to your universities will take longer to repair, but you will hopefully now see the adults in the room in the Democrat party - and there’s bound to be still some there - turn against extremists, the squad and their likes, identity politics, etc…

 

[Moxie]

I’m glad you gave yourself some leeway, and said “almost”.

On gender and race, the left believe their activists instead of truth. And they encourage the activists to try to change society. They think that history is only true if it’s negative about the west, and America in particular. And thankfully, I think the tide has turned in America against that sort of thinking. Peak nonsense has been reached, and it’s downhill from here. Views contrary to the prevailing culture will be listened to, and not beaten up or cancelled. The damage done to your universities will take longer to repair, but you will hopefully now see the adults in the room in the Democrat party - and there’s bound to be still some there - turn against extremists, the squad and their likes, identity politics, etc…

I thought I gave YOU some leeway with "almost." At least I'm trying to be generous.

Again, you state these things as fact, and not your opinion, which they are. (Especially the bolded above.) It's fine to have your opinions, but they ARE opinions. You do tend to lump the "left" (worldwide, I'm presuming, or Ireland/UK/Europe and the US, since you don't live here,) into a monolith. For one, there is a difference between "party" and individuals who consider themselves of various opinions that are left-leaning, progressive, etc.

 

[Kieran]

I thought I gave YOU some leeway with "almost." At least I'm trying to be generous.

Again, you state these things as fact, and not your opinion, which they are. (Especially the bolded above.) It's fine to have your opinions, but they ARE opinions. You do tend to lump the "left" (worldwide, I'm presuming, or Ireland/UK/Europe and the US, since you don't live here,) into a monolith. For one, there is a difference between "party" and individuals who consider themselves of various opinions that are left-leaning, progressive, etc.

I make a distinction between people who are on the left - and liberal. Just like I make a distinction between people who are on the right - and conservatives. I make these distinctions due to the fact that a lot of people on both the modern left and right are prone to exaggerated simplifications that lead to extremism, whereas in a sane political world, we need both conservatives and liberals working together, and both understanding that it’s necessary to do so.

There ares very few true liberals and conservatives who are prominent in western democracies now.

So the left wingers I’m talking about are a spectrum, obviously, including those who are to an extent liberal - meaning they’re sort of open minded and willing to listen and maybe even persuaded - and those who are rigidly revolutionary who believe any fad and fashion, just so long as it’s destructive to society.

The left I’m talking about in this thread are the latter. And by the way, you defended trans activists and, I’m sure as well, BLM rioters on this forum. You said the bug eyed loon who screeched at senator Hawley that men can become pregnant and that his questions were violence did okay - he was the problem.

She’s a professor (dear Lord!) sent there by the democrats to argue a position. An expert, if you like - though I don’t.

These are extremists trying to destroy your country, through physical violence, child abuse and lies. And your president supported them…

 

[Federberg]

I know what you're saying, and I did say it was bad. All I'm saying is that Trump was going to do those things, anyway. He has no shame, and needs no excuses. Same as he'll insist that he has a mandate, based on what he's calling a "landslide" victory, which he doesn't have. He didn't even get 50% of the vote. You're comparing a normal politician to Trump, which I say is a false equivalency. I don't like that Biden has pardoned his son, and yes, the Republicans will have a field day with it, but it doesn't make a difference to what Trump is going to do, anyway. He's already proven himself to be corrupt and unethical.

that's easily refuted. Remember he was President before and he didn't do it. Yes, we all suspect he would have done it anyway. But now he has a free pass. That's the point. That's why it's so disappointing and selfish. In a funny way I actually don't mind. If it can stop Democrats from constantly virtue signalling they're the good guys then I'll count that as a positive. Now if they can grow some balls, have a coherent non-identitarian theory of the case perhaps they'll win some voters back.

I was chatting to one of my friends. He works for an American company here in the UK. He chatted with a lot of Americans going into the elections. Blacks, whites, Asians... to a person they were all voting for Trump. For them it was the economy, and just tired of 'all the nonsense'. I asked what all the nonsense was (and bear in mind this is a super woke guy who I constantly banter with), and he tells me they're just tired of the hypocrisy and woke-ness. The idea of freedom, which I thought Kamala was winning, was lost right from the get go it seems. They're concerned about becoming like Canada

 

[Federberg]

I get irritated with 20/20 hind sight stuff. A day after we knew Trump won, a friend of mine who really didn't like the Harris pick was already telling me that Pelosi and Obama weren't keen on her pick. It's easy to say that after the fact. Who knows! But some of this stuff isn't great. Why pay people who are going to support you anyway. I don't get it!