US Politics Thread

shawnbm

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,573
Reactions
1,257
Points
113
The conspiracy theorists are all over themselves about the former First Lady being nominated at the convention, but I think the governor of California is more the party's style and he would be far more able to actually show up and debate Trump--and not fall or stumble or misspeak. If Nikki got the nod (somehow), that would be quite a story if it were her and Gavin. Now, I do not believe in my heart any of that will happen. It will be Joe squeaking out another victory over Trump.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,554
Reactions
5,628
Points
113
The conspiracy theorists are all over themselves about the former First Lady being nominated at the convention, but I think the governor of California is more the party's style and he would be far more able to actually show up and debate Trump--and not fall or stumble or misspeak. If Nikki got the nod (somehow), that would be quite a story if it were her and Gavin. Now, I do not believe in my heart any of that will happen. It will be Joe squeaking out another victory over Trump.
just had a bet with my business partner about the November outcome today. While he loathes Trump he's focused on Israel and Biden's age, hence he believes Trump will win. We both put our money on the line :) I honestly think it's not going to be close this time. The momentum in the economy is too strong. I think consumer confidence will rise through out this year, and there won't be any appreciable deterioration in employment either. Biggest risk for the economy so far as I can see is in the commercial real estate space, and that'll take time to filter through to mainstreet. Couple that with Trump being a complete nutter who hasn't expanded his base, the abortion issue, and I think that if Biden can just not confirm the age issue he'll win going away. In fact the strategy of highlighting Biden's age contains a double edged consequence for Republicans... (1) all he has to do is minimise confirmation biases and (2) if Trump shows his age, or a noticeable deterioration in his own mental acuity it'll turbo boost the Biden campaign. Once Haley is gone, the spotlight will be completely focused on Trump. The spotlight. has always been on Biden, as the President, but once we get into the meat of the election season, that same scrutiny will turn on Trump. His desire to be in the spotlight is a pathology. I can't see how he won't expose himself. By bringing the age and dementia thing into focus he may just have screwed himself. That's what I'm betting on
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

shawnbm

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,573
Reactions
1,257
Points
113
I think there is one thing your leaving out that is a very big issue and I think the former Pres. will really pound on, and I will be the border crisis, and that is precisely what it is. That is one area where former Pres. has a huge advantage over the current occupant of the White House as the former basically got that under control and now it is absolutely, positively beyond any shadow of the doubt completely out of control and the worst it has ever been in the history of this nation by far. 2nd, I think the abortion issue is something that Democrat party will push and Biden will try to make a with it, but it is not going to be is big an issue now is people realize that it is not an absolute bar across the nation but, rather, something that is being decided state by state in the political arena. That is what it should be. That is because it never was enshrined in the Constitution and never should have been. If he really wanted that right to be in our Constitution, the best way to do so would be a constitutional amendment. We have had plenty of those over the years, but the political will to do that is lacking, so they hoped the courts will do it for them. It will not be that they could deal and it seems to me most places that even clamped down on a portion, except for the most extreme states, will have exceptions for incest and rape. Hence, it really will have more to do with people who want to use abortion as a form of birth control. I do not think that issue will be as big, this time around, as it was before United States Supreme Court ruled on the issue.

As for the cognitive issue, the Democrat party has been scrutinizing everything the former Pres. says is a way of trying to say that no one should complain about the obvious cognitive the client and physical to climb of the current occupant of the White House when the former Pres. occasionally slips up like he did with Pelosi and Haley on one occasion. Now they are up in arms about him referring to Obama in a comment about Putin. This is probably a clever way of Trump alluding to what many far right people who support him have been saying concerning how the former former Pres. is really pulling the strings of the current Pres. because he has some sort of influence being the Pres. Obama had Pres. Biden as his VP. I think that is a cute sign from the former Pres. to his followers that he gets it that people think that Obama is really still in the White House, even though Biden is technically there. I personally believe that is a bunch of garbage but I do know some people who think and they are serious when they tell me this. I have stopped arguing with them about that.

You put a lot of emphasis on the national economy, employment and whatnot. I certainly believe the former Pres. will have his work that out for him as to how things have gone these first 3 years of the Biden presidency, but there are things he can say to call some of that into question. To begin with, it does seem that the Federal Reserve very carefully negotiated this and a bit of luck was involved as well. Then again, sometimes that is what it takes. Inflation has had the middle and lower class is a lot harder than anyone in the political realm wishes to admit. The stock market is a different animal and it is back to growing, but then it was always going to get back on that upward trajectory after it got hit during the pandemic for obvious reasons, including supplies side economics, people getting out of work, people remoting, people quitting during the great resignation, etc. certainly inflation was given a bit of the push by some policies of the Biden restriction, particularly with respect to continuing to hand out money to people and attempting to cancel student loan debt. This is great politics to win election, but it was not a good move and inflation state hired for a long time and still is, when you get right down to it, in significant part because of these policies. It is stunning the unemployment rate has been dropping, but the American entrepreneurial spirit has more to do with that than anything in my view. People have figured out how the work around these difficulties. The great resignation lead to people opting not to come back into the work force and then those numbers no longer counted because they were no longer wanting in. There on the sidelines, some of them retired, living of pensions in 401(k) funds. People's homes astronomical he increased in value since the pandemic, and many solar homes and became instant millionaires. No longer people are moving all around the country to different areas with our lower tax burdens. A lot of people make a lot of money on their homes and that in turn feeds into an increase in the need for homes and cheaper homes, which in turn needs to developers having plenty to do.

This is getting too long, but I am really do not know what is going to happen other than I think it will be a close one if it ends up being Biden v. Trump, but I stand by my belief that Trump is probably the only Republican nominee who would lose to Biden. Yet, the GOP is all in with him and there is not much anybody can do about it. Even if he were convicted of a felony in a state court, it would not matter. Even if he were convicted of a felony in a federal court, it still would not matter because he surely would appeal it and this presumption of innocence would carry through the election day and then once he were in office, I am sure he would be the first Pres. to pardon himself. He would then have another ruling from the United States Supreme Court.
 

Fiero425

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
11,496
Reactions
2,570
Points
113
Location
Chicago, IL
Website
fiero4251.blogspot.com
Holy sh1t!



In the immortal words of Don King, "only in America!" I gave up years ago sanity would overcome the colossal stupidity of so many people who support such ideas & candidates! Like that movie "Amageddon," I'd go for not being taxed for the rest of my life! That way in comparison to the gov't paying out checks, just keeping everything I earned is more than fair & a lot simpler! :face-with-hand-over-mouth: :fearful-face: :astonished-face: :face-with-tears-of-joy:
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,554
Reactions
5,628
Points
113
In the immortal words of Don King, "only in America!" I gave up years ago sanity would overcome the colossal stupidity of so many people who support such ideas & candidates! Like that movie "Amageddon," I'd go for not being taxed for the rest of my life! That way in comparison to the gov't paying out checks, just keeping everything I earned is more than fair & a lot simpler! :face-with-hand-over-mouth: :fearful-face: :astonished-face: :face-with-tears-of-joy:
the movie that comes to my mind is Django. That dude reminds me of the Samuel Jackson character!
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,654
Reactions
14,822
Points
113
the movie that comes to my mind is Django. That dude reminds me of the Samuel Jackson character!
Bite your tongue! This guy is a complete crackpot. He quotes Hitler, minimizes the Holocaust, calls gay "maggots" and women who have abortions "murderers." He fully admits he believes in conspiracy theories, including something about the world being run by a secret cabal of reptile people.

Speaking of North Carolina, Trump barely won it last election, and it should be firmly in play this year, for several good reasons. The Democrats MUST win it, IMO, esp. with Michigan looking problematic. The governor's race will be hotly contested, and will draw voters. Additionally, the abortion rights activists and women in general are extra motivated, because a state-level lawmaker switched parties last year and changed the balance of power to give the Republicans a veto-proof majority, and they immediately passed a much more strict abortion law. The governor did veto it, but they upheld it. Voters are feeling betrayed. Additionally, I saw the chair of the Democratic party in NC speak on TV last night...she's young, smart, motivated and really seems to understand the various issues across her state.

26% of the voters in the NC Republican primary last night voted for Haley or someone other than Trump. Rather than stay home in Nov., they may well come out for the governor's race...and the Republicans are running a freak.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,554
Reactions
5,628
Points
113
Bite your tongue! This guy is a complete crackpot. He quotes Hitler, minimizes the Holocaust, calls gay "maggots" and women who have abortions "murderers." He fully admits he believes in conspiracy theories, including something about the world being run by a secret cabal of reptile people.

Speaking of North Carolina, Trump barely won it last election, and it should be firmly in play this year, for several good reasons. The Democrats MUST win it, IMO, esp. with Michigan looking problematic. The governor's race will be hotly contested, and will draw voters. Additionally, the abortion rights activists and women in general are extra motivated, because a state-level lawmaker switched parties last year and changed the balance of power to give the Republicans a veto-proof majority, and they immediately passed a much more strict abortion law. The governor did veto it, but they upheld it. Voters are feeling betrayed. Additionally, I saw the chair of the Democratic party in NC speak on TV last night...she's young, smart, motivated and really seems to understand the various issues across her state.

26% of the voters in the NC Republican primary last night voted for Haley or someone other than Trump. Rather than stay home in Nov., they may well come out for the governor's race...and the Republicans are running a freak.
Bite my tongue? I don't understand. Do you not agree with a similarity with Stephen?

 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,654
Reactions
14,822
Points
113
Bite my tongue? I don't understand. Do you not agree with a similarity with Stephen?


It was a joke...comparing that guy to Samuel L. Jackson in anyway. But I had actually forgotten who he played in that movie.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,654
Reactions
14,822
Points
113
I think there is one thing your leaving out that is a very big issue and I think the former Pres. will really pound on, and I will be the border crisis, and that is precisely what it is. That is one area where former Pres. has a huge advantage over the current occupant of the White House as the former basically got that under control and now it is absolutely, positively beyond any shadow of the doubt completely out of control and the worst it has ever been in the history of this nation by far.
Shawn, I'm going to disagree with a few points here, and you've put a lot out there. But I am glad you're posting here. Good to have another Yank weighing in. :)

The numbers don't bear out your claim that Trump got the Mexican border issues under control. He did not. He focused on asylum seekers, and so unprecedented numbers of illegals came across, increasing yearly during his tenure. But we can debate this separately. I've been meaning to post on the border issue and the history of it, but trying to find the time and a way to make it coherent and succinct for the sake of debate.

However, because Trump just blatantly lies about everything, the perception is that he was tough on the border issue and that he had it under control. If people choose to believe this, then perception can win the day with many. Biden really hasn't changed many of Trump's policies.
2nd, I think the abortion issue is something that Democrat party will push and Biden will try to make a with it, but it is not going to be is big an issue now is people realize that it is not an absolute bar across the nation but, rather, something that is being decided state by state in the political arena. That is what it should be. That is because it never was enshrined in the Constitution and never should have been. If he really wanted that right to be in our Constitution, the best way to do so would be a constitutional amendment. We have had plenty of those over the years, but the political will to do that is lacking, so they hoped the courts will do it for them. It will not be that they could deal and it seems to me most places that even clamped down on a portion, except for the most extreme states, will have exceptions for incest and rape. Hence, it really will have more to do with people who want to use abortion as a form of birth control. I do not think that issue will be as big, this time around, as it was before United States Supreme Court ruled on the issue.
Obviously, we have very different views on this issue, but I think you're wrong that it won't have an impact on the election. In part, because I think you're completely wrong that it "will have more to do with people who want to use abortion as a form of birth control." This makes it a narrow sliver of the electorate, and I think you're just wrong on this. Firstly, because it has influenced the outcomes of the last 2 election cycles. Secondly, because there are a lot of women who are not even of childbearing age who enraged at being treated like this. They are also thinking of the interests of other women. There are men with skin in this game, too, out of personal interest, and as allies of women in this fight for self-determination and access to proper healthcare. The third point on this I will make was that unexpected consequence of the "success" of the "right-to-life"/anti-abortion movement's insistence on when life begins has now made a LOT of families out there fear for the future of IVF. All of this brings out a lot more voters than you seem to believe.
As for the cognitive issue, the Democrat party has been scrutinizing everything the former Pres. says is a way of trying to say that no one should complain about the obvious cognitive the client and physical to climb of the current occupant of the White House when the former Pres. occasionally slips up like he did with Pelosi and Haley on one occasion. Now they are up in arms about him referring to Obama in a comment about Putin. This is probably a clever way of Trump alluding to what many far right people who support him have been saying concerning how the former former Pres. is really pulling the strings of the current Pres. because he has some sort of influence being the Pres. Obama had Pres. Biden as his VP. I think that is a cute sign from the former Pres. to his followers that he gets it that people think that Obama is really still in the White House, even though Biden is technically there. I personally believe that is a bunch of garbage but I do know some people who think and they are serious when they tell me this. I have stopped arguing with them about that.
See Federberg's video about as to "occasional" slip-ups. Trump has also taken your tack that he was "kidding" about Obama, and winking at conspiratorialists amongst following, but I firmly believe that's a retro-fit. Trump has no sense of humor or irony, and he certainly wasn't winking when he said it. Trump has some serious mental issues.
You put a lot of emphasis on the national economy, employment and whatnot. I certainly believe the former Pres. will have his work that out for him as to how things have gone these first 3 years of the Biden presidency, but there are things he can say to call some of that into question. To begin with, it does seem that the Federal Reserve very carefully negotiated this and a bit of luck was involved as well. Then again, sometimes that is what it takes. Inflation has had the middle and lower class is a lot harder than anyone in the political realm wishes to admit. The stock market is a different animal and it is back to growing, but then it was always going to get back on that upward trajectory after it got hit during the pandemic for obvious reasons, including supplies side economics, people getting out of work, people remoting, people quitting during the great resignation, etc. certainly inflation was given a bit of the push by some policies of the Biden restriction, particularly with respect to continuing to hand out money to people and attempting to cancel student loan debt. This is great politics to win election, but it was not a good move and inflation state hired for a long time and still is, when you get right down to it, in significant part because of these policies. It is stunning the unemployment rate has been dropping, but the American entrepreneurial spirit has more to do with that than anything in my view. People have figured out how the work around these difficulties. The great resignation lead to people opting not to come back into the work force and then those numbers no longer counted because they were no longer wanting in. There on the sidelines, some of them retired, living of pensions in 401(k) funds. People's homes astronomical he increased in value since the pandemic, and many solar homes and became instant millionaires. No longer people are moving all around the country to different areas with our lower tax burdens. A lot of people make a lot of money on their homes and that in turn feeds into an increase in the need for homes and cheaper homes, which in turn needs to developers having plenty to do.
I'm no economist, but I can say that when an economy does better, the sitting President gets the credit, historically, in terms of the electorate, no matter who else you want to credit, including luck. Obviously, inflation is going to hit the middle- and lower-classes hardest. There is a housing crisis, too. Real life pocketbook issues are still a problem. We'll see how the economy continues to grow in the next months, and if that's enough to combat the "gloom and doom" that Trump and Fox News peddle.
This is getting too long, but I am really do not know what is going to happen other than I think it will be a close one if it ends up being Biden v. Trump, but I stand by my belief that Trump is probably the only Republican nominee who would lose to Biden. Yet, the GOP is all in with him and there is not much anybody can do about it. Even if he were convicted of a felony in a state court, it would not matter. Even if he were convicted of a felony in a federal court, it still would not matter because he surely would appeal it and this presumption of innocence would carry through the election day and then once he were in office, I am sure he would be the first Pres. to pardon himself. He would then have another ruling from the United States Supreme Court.
Well, it IS going to be Biden and Trump. But there are a lot of Republicans out there who say that Trump getting convicted of anything does matter to them. We're not talking about the base. Haley's campaign did show that there's less support for Trump out there than he'd like to have us believe.
 

shawnbm

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
3,573
Reactions
1,257
Points
113
Hello Moxie--

Biden will win if it is Trump. Other than that candidate, I think he more likely loses.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,654
Reactions
14,822
Points
113
Hello Moxie--

Biden will win if it is Trump. Other than that candidate, I think he more likely loses.
I think we've discussed this, and I agree with you. If either party had someone else, they'd win. Sad state of affairs. When Trump made it clear that he was running again, the Democrats decided he'd win the nomination, and they had to run Biden again. I'm beginning to think this was a bad idea, even if I do think that Biden will beat Trump again. What if Biden had done what he'd said, and been a one-term president, and opening up the primary to all Democrats that would want to run? We have a raft of great candidates on the Democratic side, as good options, especially in opposition to Trump. I'm feeling buyer's remorse as to the DNC decision. I don't think upturning everything at the Convention is going to be the answer. But maybe Kamala finds a reason to back out as the undercard, and offer people someone they could like and trust better?
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,554
Reactions
5,628
Points
113
I think we've discussed this, and I agree with you. If either party had someone else, they'd win. Sad state of affairs. When Trump made it clear that he was running again, the Democrats decided he'd win the nomination, and they had to run Biden again. I'm beginning to think this was a bad idea, even if I do think that Biden will beat Trump again. What if Biden had done what he'd said, and been a one-term president, and opening up the primary to all Democrats that would want to run? We have a raft of great candidates on the Democratic side, as good options, especially in opposition to Trump. I'm feeling buyer's remorse as to the DNC decision. I don't think upturning everything at the Convention is going to be the answer. But maybe Kamala finds a reason to back out as the undercard, and offer people someone they could like and trust better?
you Dems have to stop wetting the bed about this. The original assessment was correct. Biden with incumbency should beat Trump. As much as I think there are decent alternatives the irony is that lack of experienced and/or more progressive candidates would detract more than you would like to think with voters who only pay attention at Presidential election time. Republicans have spent 4 years pounding away at Biden's age, and it's soaked into everyone's psyche. It's impressive what they do. The election has officially started now. I still maintain HRC would have beaten Trump but for Comey, despite the magnificent job they did on the emails thing. The key now is that there should be no 'Comey event'. If I were you I would be more concerned about Garland than anything else. Well... apart from Biden confirming preconceptions of course. You have the economy and employment fizzing in your favour and I don't see that changing in time to help Trump..
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Fiero425

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,554
Reactions
5,628
Points
113
@Federberg: This Salon article backs up what you've been saying for some time, but the flaws in the NYT latest poll is appalling.


I'm telling you!

It's one thing to make the HRC emails error. But now this?? There's definitely something wrong. This is why I say there's a serious problem with that paper. And as the standard bearer of the MSM, it's no surprise that this has done tremendous damage to public trust. I honestly don't get phased by the polling anymore. You would have to be dumb deaf and blind not to realise that for 6 years now, instead of the hidden MAGA voter, there's a hidden anti-Trump/GOP vote out there. It might even be growing. I would love to understand why this is happening, but for now I'll just repeat... NYT is trash
 
  • Like
Reactions: tented

tented

Administrator
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
21,690
Reactions
10,551
Points
113
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
you Dems have to stop wetting the bed about this. The original assessment was correct. Biden with incumbency should beat Trump. As much as I think there are decent alternatives the irony is that lack of experienced and/or more progressive candidates would detract more than you would like to think with voters who only pay attention at Presidential election time. Republicans have spent 4 years pounding away at Biden's age, and it's soaked into everyone's psyche. It's impressive what they do. The election has officially started now. I still maintain HRC would have beaten Trump but for Comey, despite the magnificent job they did on the emails thing. The key now is that there should be no 'Comey event'. If I were you I would be more concerned about Garland than anything else. Well... apart from Biden confirming preconceptions of course. You have the economy and employment fizzing in your favour and I don't see that changing in time to help Trump..

Speaking of pounding away at Biden’s age, I just saw this:



While what you write is logical in terms of economic numbers, this stuff has little to no impact on the average American‘s day-to-day life. Meaning, what’s really on people’s mind is inflation, which hits everyone most tangibly, most immediately when buying groceries, for example.

I think Biden will win reelection. One-term Presidents are rare. I wonder if Trump could name the last US President before him who wasn’t reelected? (Kidding!)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
mrzz World Affairs 2450
T World Affairs 13
britbox World Affairs 82
britbox World Affairs 1004
britbox World Affairs 46