US Politics Thread

[shawnbm]

^ yes, generally that is what the PP were about and it was a bombshell at the time. My issue was with whether there was anything by our more recent leaker about modern dictatorships and all that they have and do do--not just a swipe at what USA was doing.

 

[Moxie]

^ yes, generally that is what the PP were about and it was a bombshell at the time. My issue was with whether there was anything by our more recent leaker about modern dictatorships and all that they have and do do--not just a swipe at what USA was doing.

This is my objection to Assange...he calls himself a journalist, but also an "activist," but what is the mission statement, then? IMO, he was more of a self-promoter and showboat...the hacker who still liked to show off his hacking skills. Like Federberg, I have a hard time feeling sorry for the guy. On the other hand, whether or not Assange is actually a journalist, I have to listen to the voices of actual journalist and supporters of journalistic freedom that says there are some precedents here that could be dangerous. Many do. Ellsberg was charged under the Espionage Act, and got off due to government misconduct (brought to you by the same people who gave us Watergate.) But he faced the consequences of his actions. He turned out to be on the right side of history.

Assange has been in a Hell mostly of his own making. He fled some sex charges in Sweden, then has been wandering the globe trying not to get extradited to the US, wearing out his welcome in a few places. I guess what I'd like to see happen is for him to be extradited to the US, to appear before a Congressional committee to find out exactly what he accessed, how, and who helped him, particularly if it was Russia. (There are a lot of different leak issues in play.) In exchange for full disclosure, they should agree to deport him to Australia, who has said they'd take him. In terms of protecting sources, Chelsea Manning has already been tried, convicted and pardoned.

 

[Moxie]

basically about the fact that Americans have grown complacent about the risks they face as they tend to prosecute wars on other peoples lands. They don't feel the pain of war.

I totally agree with this, except that I don't believe we have "grown" so. I think we generally are so. We are a huge country, and far away from many of the world's conflicts. It has mostly taken a lot to get us politically invested enough to get behind them. Consider WWII, the "good war." For all that was known, it took Pearl Harbor to get us in. But yes, speaking of more recent involvements (right and wrong), they are more political footballs here, than anything else, sorry to say.

I think it's in response to the cavalier attitude the legislature (House GOP) is taking towards the risks in Ukraine, Gaza and Taiwan. I agree with him. Ukraine has degraded Russia's military capacity, but the U.S failing it's allies it's likely to encourage the very wars the anti-neocons claim to want no part of

It is flummoxing in so many ways what Trump has done to the GOP, but this short-sightedness in terms of maintaining our alliances, and propping up Ukraine as a bulwark against authoritarianism is possibly the most surprising.

 

[Moxie]

ok this is just cray cray...

Alabama supreme court rules frozen embryos are âchildrenâ

Court allows two wrongful death suits against fertility clinic to proceed while decision could impact people seeking IVF

www.theguardian.com

It is, and I'm glad you posted this. Note this, from the Alabama decision:

'The Alabama supreme court’s ruling repeatedly references God and the sanctity of life, citing the Bible and biblical scholars including Petrus van Mastricht, Thomas Aquinas and John Calvin. Chief Justice Thomas Parker wrote: “Human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God, who views the destruction of His image as an affront to Himself … this is true of unborn human life no less than it is of all other human life – that even before birth, all human beings bear the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory.”'

The "wrath of holy god?" Whatever happened to the separation of Church and State? Embryos are children? This from a NYT article:

Megan Legerski, 37, of Tuscaloosa, Ala., who is currently undergoing infertility treatment, said that she recently became pregnant after being implanted with an embryo created through in vitro fertilization, but that she miscarried after eight weeks.

She and her partner have three more frozen embryos that they can implant, she said.

“The embryos to me are our best chance at having children, and we are extremely hopeful,” Ms. Legerski said. “But having three embryos in the freezer is not the same to me as having one that implants and become a pregnancy, and it’s not the same as having a child.

“We have three embryos. We don’t have three children.”
__________

Some major providers of in vitro care have already mostly halted their work in Alabama, for fear of repercussions to themselves and their healthcare providers. (One will still harvest eggs, for example, but not fertilize them).

Where is the "pro-life" or "pro-family" in this position? Or is the follow on that, "If God had wanted you to have children...?"

All of this unsupported by science.

 

[Federberg]

Nikki Haley won 40% in Trump country? Granted it was her state, but.... that's one of the most Trumpy States. That spells bad news for Trump who is effectively an incumbent. Can you imagine if Biden only got 60% of a primary vote?? Trump is not as strong as the media seems to think. I would bet a lot that a fair proportion of the Haley voters simply don't want Trump. If that number is 20 - 30% of her following it means that Trump cannot.. CANNOT.. win a general election. I think those folks will either go to Biden or just not turn up. If I were in Trump's camp I would be shitting bricks about this

 

[Moxie]

Nikki Haley won 40% in Trump country? Granted it was her state, but.... that's one of the most Trumpy States. That spells bad news for Trump who is effectively an incumbent. Can you imagine if Biden only got 60% of a primary vote?? Trump is not as strong as the media seems to think. I would bet a lot that a fair proportion of the Haley voters simply don't want Trump. If that number is 20 - 30% of her following it means that Trump cannot.. CANNOT.. win a general election. I think those folks will either go to Biden or just not turn up. If I were in Trump's camp I would be shitting bricks about this

Yes, I looked at the numbers this morning. Trump won 451,905 votes, Haley 298,047, but a total of 303,895 votes went for a candidate other than Trump. South Carolina isn't the reddest of Red states, but it's up there, and majority Republican. As you say, the question is: how many were voting FOR her, and how many firmly against Trump? Around 4,000 "threw" their votes away to De Santis, Ramawamy, Christie and others. IMO, those are protest votes against Trump.

This is anecdotal, but I heard a SC woman yesterday to say that she liked Haley a lot, and was voting for her. That she had voted for Trump before, but she has grandkids and thinks he's a terrible influence. That if it's Trump or Biden in the general election, she'll vote for Biden. One does wonder how many Republicans out there just can't stand with Trump anymore? A lot of "regular Republicans" were put off by Jan. 6th. Others can't abide the legal issues.

Haley is committed to staying in, at least until Super Tuesday, and she has the money. (Ask yourself where THAT money comes from...Never Trumpers, I'd bet.) Whether it's her strategy for down-the-road, or her patriotic commitment to blocking Trump, or some combination, she will be a thorn in the side of the Trump campaign if she keeps exposing his weakness by doing well-enough to show how many won't vote for Trump, at least for now.

According to what I've read, at around 25%, this is a high voter turnout for a primary. Given that it wasn't predicted to be close, you have to think that a lot of folks turned out to vote against Trump. Now, whether they'll hold their noses and vote Republican in the general election, vote for Biden, or just stay home is yet to be seen. But, by comparison, in a completely uncontested Democratic primary in SC, only 5% voted. Obviously, a lot of voters who don't want Trump came out. It can't all be a Haley local wave. I agree with you that the Trump campaign is surely quietly panicking behind the scenes.

 

[Federberg]

So about the Biden is too old and is senile thing... errr... what about Trump?? A few examples...

 

[Federberg]

Yes, I looked at the numbers this morning. Trump won 451,905 votes, Haley 298,047, but a total of 303,895 votes went for a candidate other than Trump. South Carolina isn't the reddest of Red states, but it's up there, and majority Republican. As you say, the question is: how many were voting FOR her, and how many firmly against Trump? Around 4,000 "threw" their votes away to De Santis, Ramawamy, Christie and others. IMO, those are protest votes against Trump.

This is anecdotal, but I heard a SC woman yesterday to say that she liked Haley a lot, and was voting for her. That she had voted for Trump before, but she has grandkids and thinks he's a terrible influence. That if it's Trump or Biden in the general election, she'll vote for Biden. One does wonder how many Republicans out there just can't stand with Trump anymore? A lot of "regular Republicans" were put off by Jan. 6th. Others can't abide the legal issues.

Haley is committed to staying in, at least until Super Tuesday, and she has the money. (Ask yourself where THAT money comes from...Never Trumpers, I'd bet.) Whether it's her strategy for down-the-road, or her patriotic commitment to blocking Trump, or some combination, she will be a thorn in the side of the Trump campaign if she keeps exposing his weakness by doing well-enough to show how many won't vote for Trump, at least for now.

According to what I've read, at around 25%, this is a high voter turnout for a primary. Given that it wasn't predicted to be close, you have to think that a lot of folks turned out to vote against Trump. Now, whether they'll hold their noses and vote Republican in the general election, vote for Biden, or just stay home is yet to be seen. But, by comparison, in a completely uncontested Democratic primary in SC, only 5% voted. Obviously, a lot of voters who don't want Trump came out. It can't all be a Haley local wave. I agree with you that the Trump campaign is surely quietly panicking behind the scenes.

Trump is even underperforming the polling in GOP primaries.That tells me there's a hidden anti-Trump vote in the GOP. So that reinforces my belief that all these polls for the general are significantly overestimating what Trump will get. I continue to believe November won't be close... at all

 

[shawnbm]

If it is Biden against Trump again, it will be 60-40 for the president. Haley runs? We have our first woman president.

 

[Federberg]

If it is Biden against Trump again, it will be 60-40 for the president. Haley runs? We have our first woman president.

pretty much how I see it too. At least the Biden over Trump part. I think Haley has a great chance against Biden. Even an edge. But incumbency is such a powerful thing. But I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of Trumpers bail out at the last moment out of spite. Giving a Haley-Biden contest to Biden. Mark my words... the vindictiveness is real. In a normal world I would agree with you. But I find it impossible to believe these MAGA cultists would take it well if Haley displaced Trump. And that would be the case if she were a bloke. As a woman? Wow... they'll turn her into HRC quicker than you can say 'grab them by the pussy'

 

[shawnbm]

^ valid points you bring up there, Federberg. You may be absolutely correct on that. Haley has to win Super Tuesday or at least make it a contest, as Florida will not go to her; of that, I have no doubt.

 

[Federberg]

^ valid points you bring up there, Federberg. You may be absolutely correct on that. Haley has to win Super Tuesday or at least make it a contest, as Florida will not go to her; of that, I have no doubt.

oh I think she'll lose all of them. But I don't believe the strategy of her backers is for her to win. There's obviously the long shot possibility, if he gets sent to jail or more morbid possibilities. But the reality is that they are trying to damage Trump as much as possible. Historically a sitting President becomes vulnerable if he faces insurgency in the primaries. But this time is different. By Trump's own lies he has defined himself as an incumbent, and he has provoked a massive insurgency against himself. I think this is meaningful, and potentially fatal for his campaign. If he ever stood a chance anyway...

 

[Moxie]

oh I think she'll lose all of them. But I don't believe the strategy of her backers is for her to win. There's obviously the long shot possibility, if he gets sent to jail or more morbid possibilities. But the reality is that they are trying to damage Trump as much as possible. Historically a sitting President becomes vulnerable if he faces insurgency in the primaries. But this time is different. By Trump's own lies he has defined himself as an incumbent, and he has provoked a massive insurgency against himself. I think this is meaningful, and potentially fatal for his campaign. If he ever stood a chance anyway...

If Trump gets sent to jail, (which won't happen,) or dies before the election, I still don't think the Republicans will say that their 2nd choice is Haley. It will be someone "Trump-like," like JD Vance.

 

[Front242]

I get that many people hate him but I don't think there's much chance Trump is dying before the elections...

 

[shawnbm]

Nobody knows, but it is a bit morbid that is floated out there ^--even if I get that some people despise him. I did not wish Tricky Dickie death in the Seventies, although a few perhaps did (likely more as to McNamara and LBJ).

 

[Federberg]

^you'll note I tried to avoid it. I wouldn't want that, not on anyone and their families. He's human. But I was looking at hypotheticals, nothing more...

 

[Moxie]

Nobody knows, but it is a bit morbid that is floated out there ^--even if I get that some people despise him. I did not wish Tricky Dickie death in the Seventies, although a few perhaps did (likely more as to McNamara and LBJ).

People speculate quite openly about Biden all the time, thus so many conversations about how much people don't like Harris. Biden is 81, Trump is 77. They are breaking their own records that they set last time as the oldest people ever to run for President. The average life expectancy in the US is 73 for men. It's not being mean or impractical to suggest that it could happen. Trump is overweight and has a penchant for fast food. I'm sure Biden is the more fit of the two.

 

[shawnbm]

I do not know, but it is odd we would even be all in on a rerun of the polemic that was 2020.

 

[Federberg]

I do not know, but it is odd we would even be all in on a rerun of the polemic that was 2020.

it was inevitable the moment McCarthy went to Mar a Lago and gave him some head

 

[Federberg]

very polished. But... 'more concerns about Biden than Trump?' That's oily and annoying...