US Politics Thread

Federberg

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I'm fascinated watching this will he won't he concession thing as it progresses and whether progressives fall for the trap McConnell is trying to set. Clearly Mitch has Georgia on his mind. I don't think anything will get Republicans in Georgia activated more than a lot of noise about the transition. I think Biden is playing this perfectly, and if other Dems are smart they'll take his lead and just continue to work around Trump. Let him sulk but ignore him. Don't attack the guy, just.... ignore him. Be technocratic and competent given the hand you've been dealt and Republicans in Georgia might just end up not being inspired enough to really come out in force. That would be the smart play... but I fear some folks might end up not being able to resist attacking Trump. That would be a horrific mistake
 
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calitennis127

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Biden is speaking in 40 minutes. It would be correct for Trump to concede before, but everyone knows he won't. That's too bad. Everything he does is contradictory to precedent, and he doesn't care. He certainly doesn't care that it would be useful for the country if he conceded and called for unity.


Lol.....you really do repeat every mindless CNN talking point out there. Every single time. You have absolutely no independence of thought. It's fitting since you are a fan of the mildly retarded elf named Obama, who is characterized as some kind of world-historical mind, when in fact he is nothing more than a Democratic Party hack. His originality amounts to "whatever Chuck Schumer said, I'll repeat."

There is absolutely nothing for Trump to concede to.....the evidence of voter fraud in Philadelphia, Detroit, and Milwaukee (not to mention Nevada) is so overwhelming that no one in their right mind would concede in Trump's position. He was up with over 90% of the vote counted in both Michigan and Wisconsin, and then out of nowhere the Democratic political machines in Detroit and Milwaukee stopped counting, only to bring in loads of ballots in the middle of the night to push Biden over the top.

Speaking of being "contradictory to precedent," Obama authorized spying against the Trump campaign in 2016 and then did everything in his power to sabotage the incoming Trump administration with an FBI investigation. Of course, he said something different to the media and deceived sapheads like yourself who thought he was being a gentleman. But if you want to talk about breaking with precedent, that is what Obama and the utterly despicable Joe Beeden character did at the end of 2016 and start of 2017.

And "call for unity"? LMAO. At no point during Trump's presidency was there ever a call for unity. That is laughable for you to suggest.

I'll tell you what is bad for the country.....letting the most fraudulent election scheme in American history to go unaddressed. There is no way Trump should concede without exhausting every option available to him in the courts. The Democrats cheated their asses off in this election.
 

calitennis127

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Oh yeah i have a question:

Isn't there some kind of American law in place where a leader is found to be mentally challenged (not in possession of their faculties) that some one in his party can serve out the remaining 2.5 months? Vice President Pence could serve the out the term, surely?


Yeah, the guy who got 4 Nobel prize nominations and managed the economy so well that Bloomberg had to give him credit for it is mentally challenged. But the stuttering, mildly retarded and utterly trite Obama is not "mentally challenged." Sure.

Maybe if Trump had screwed up Libya and Syria and bombed a wedding in Yemen while the economy was completely flat you would be giving him credit. After all that, was little Baracky's resume.


Trump’s Economy Really Was Better Than Obama’s

 

El Dude

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I'm fascinated watching this will he won't he concession thing as it progresses and whether progressives fall for the trap McConnell is trying to set. Clearly Mitch has Georgia on his mind. I don't think anything will get Republicans in Georgia activated more than a lot of noise about the transition. I think Biden is playing this perfectly, and if other Dems are smart they'll take his lead and just continue to work around Trump. Let him sulk but ignore him. Don't attack the guy, just.... ignore him. Be technocratic and competent given the hand you've been dealt and Republicans in Georgia might just end up not being inspired enough to really come out in force. That would be the smart play... but I fear some folks might end up not being able to resist attacking Trump. That would be a horrific mistake
Yes, agreed. FYI, in the States "progressives" is an unofficial term referring to a loosely affiliated group comprising the left-wing of the Democratic party, as well as various non-party affiliated folks like Bernie and AOC. They are probably closer to the Conservative than Labour party in the UK, although still to the left of the Cons. Biden and his cronies are not progressives - they are centrists, or rather, probably somewhere between the Lib-Dems and Tories in the UK.

The Republican party in the US has morphed over the last couple decades from being more like the Tories, to a rather bat-shit crazy amalgam of religious fundamentalists and corporate raider types - so they're further to the right than the Tories. The Democrats have a lot of the latter, but socially they clothe themselves in more liberal drag.

So from left to right, it would be something like:

Labour/American progressives --- UK Lib-Dems -- US centrist Democrats -- Tories -- US Reps
 
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Federberg

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Yes, agreed. FYI, in the States "progressives" is an unofficial term referring to a loosely affiliated group comprising the left-wing of the Democratic party, as well as various non-party affiliated folks like Bernie and AOC. They are probably closer to the Conservative than Labour party in the UK, although still to the left of the Cons. Biden and his cronies are not progressives - they are centrists, or rather, probably somewhere between the Lib-Dems and Tories in the UK.

The Republican party in the US has morphed over the last couple decades from being more like the Tories, to a rather bat-shit crazy amalgam of religious fundamentalists and corporate raider types - so they're further to the right than the Tories. The Democrats have a lot of the latter, but socially they clothe themselves in more liberal drag.

So from left to right, it would be something like:

Labour/American progressives --- UK Lib-Dems -- US centrist Democrats -- Tories -- US Reps
I don’t understand do you think I don’t know who progressives are??
 

El Dude

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I don’t understand do you think I don’t know who progressives are??
I was assuming by "progressives" you meant Democrats, based upon the context of your sentence re: McConnell.
 

Kieran

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I think this will fit here in this thread, you might have to watch it for a few minutes to see why:

 
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Federberg

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Oh my god, you are the most defensive person. Relax.
If you say so mate. You are incredibly arrogant. Frankly I've quite enjoyed not having to interact with you for a while so why don't we go back to that?
 

Moxie

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I don’t think it’s too idealistic, and it’s well said. Among my friends, I would be considered to be on the left on some issues, and more traditional with other issues. So I have friends who describe themselves knowledgeably as socialist and they’re my dearest friends, beautiful educated people who don’t embrace the extremes, but likewise I have many friends from the so-called right who are equally sharp and genuine in their beliefs. Both believe - by the way - that their political values will benefit society. None of them hold beliefs which contain prejudice against any minorities or gende.

The good thing is, we can talk. My best friend of all is a very liberal Catholic who has the most generous view of anybody. You see, I think people reach the dangerous extremes of a belief because they’re psychologically in need of extremes. They’re not thinking rationally on each issue. They’re trying to furiously plug a feeling of inadequacy. And this can get in the way of peaceful discussion and fruitful collaboration, because whether people like it or not, many countries in the west are hardening in their divisions but it is actually possible to sit down with somebody who is your polar opposite ideologically and have a good time, feel common purpose and learn something from each other.

As you rightly say, “we used to have a lot more respect for people of differing views.”

It brings me around to a related topic which we discuss elsewhere, which is the influence of social media, where - according to the experts - we’re being hacked by the algorithms, and dragged into a race to the bottom, being fed outrage and disharmony, misinformation, etc. And so the stats say that in America, what the tribes think the other tribe believe can be wrong by more than thirty percent. In other words, the echo chambers are resounding too loudly and we’re not leaving ourselves open to listening to the other side?

I don’t know the extent of the problem but I wonder if it’s a factor?
Sorry, I've been meaning to respond to this for days. I do think the problem of division really dates back to cable news and where we stopped getting our news from the same sources, in this country, anyway. Social media became a follow-on factor. Though, on the other hand, it remains a place where we might still keep talking to each other, as friends and family, even though we don't subscribe to the same sources of news. So there's a negative benefit and a positive one to social media, IMO. While they might be trying to feed us all kinds of BS, it's not impossible to side-step a lot of it. But that's because I'm old. I do fear that young people keep walking into things with no idea what they're giving up, or buying into. It rather helps to have a certain base-level of convictions, and skepticism, before you engage with social media. And also perhaps, as you say, it's easier to engage our friends in more nuanced conversations when we've been having them for a long time, before the edges got so hardened.
 

Moxie

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I think this will fit here in this thread, you might have to watch it for a few minutes to see why:


I love those twins! I'll post more on the Frontier Bar, so as not to distract.
 

El Dude

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If you say so mate. You are incredibly arrogant. Frankly I've quite enjoyed not having to interact with you for a while so why don't we go back to that?
Pavlovian. Chill, Federberg. I thought you were misusing American usage of "progressive" and you get your panties in a wad. Why so sensitive?
 

El Dude

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Sorry, I've been meaning to respond to this for days. I do think the problem of division really dates back to cable news and where we stopped getting our news from the same sources, in this country, anyway. Social media became a follow-on factor. Though, on the other hand, it remains a place where we might still keep talking to each other, as friends and family, even though we don't subscribe to the same sources of news. So there's a negative benefit and a positive one to social media, IMO. While they might be trying to feed us all kinds of BS, it's not impossible to side-step a lot of it. But that's because I'm old. I do fear that young people keep walking into things with no idea what they're giving up, or buying into. It rather helps to have a certain base-level of convictions, and skepticism, before you engage with social media. And also perhaps, as you say, it's easier to engage our friends in more nuanced conversations when we've been having them for a long time, before the edges got so hardened.
Check out the documentary "The Social Dilemma," which discusses the way social media basically creates self-reinforcing echo chambers.

But there are a lot of factors involved. Corporate media is essentially propaganda - and I mean all corporate media, not only Fox et al, but MSNBC, CNN, NYT, etc. The "reporters" aren't actually journalists, but entertainers and promulgators of this or that ideological perspective. Many ex-anchors at the big outlets have attested to the fact that they aren't allowed to say certain things. Even on the so-called "liberal" networks like MSNBC.

The brilliant film Network illustrated the transition from news as actual news to info-tainment, and that was 45 years ago. It is very difficult to get a sense of what is actually going on, and virtually impossible to find an unbiased take. There are good journalists out there, but they exist mostly on the fringe and have almost universally been excised from big platforms.
 

Federberg

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Pavlovian. Chill, Federberg. I thought you were misusing American usage of "progressive" and you get your panties in a wad. Why so sensitive?
mate you are pathetic. You accuse me of being defensive when we all know that you are exactly that. If you had taken the time to read previous discussions it would have been very clear why I focused on progressives. You needn't agree with my view, but the context would have been obvious. But you're lazy and full of your own sense of intelligence. That being said... I repeat let's just go back to not interacting. You and I both know you don't want my smoke ;)
 
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Moxie

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Check out the documentary "The Social Dilemma," which discusses the way social media basically creates self-reinforcing echo chambers.

But there are a lot of factors involved. Corporate media is essentially propaganda - and I mean all corporate media, not only Fox et al, but MSNBC, CNN, NYT, etc. The "reporters" aren't actually journalists, but entertainers and promulgators of this or that ideological perspective. Many ex-anchors at the big outlets have attested to the fact that they aren't allowed to say certain things. Even on the so-called "liberal" networks like MSNBC.

The brilliant film Network illustrated the transition from news as actual news to info-tainment, and that was 45 years ago. It is very difficult to get a sense of what is actually going on, and virtually impossible to find an unbiased take. There are good journalists out there, but they exist mostly on the fringe and have almost universally been excised from big platforms.
"The Social Dilemma" has been much recommended around here, and there's a thread for a certain discussion on AI. I tried to watch it, but I found much was stuff we already know, (maybe I'm too much of a news junky) and I didn't like the docudrama trope. I'll give it another try...maybe I was in the wrong mood.

I do disagree about your roping in journalists with editorialists and TV talking heads. There still is a difference, and not just on the margins. I find thinking otherwise to be too cynical. Yes, Network was a brilliant film and a vision of our future (and even then-present.) But I don't buy that it's a lost battle, which everyone seems to be claiming.
 
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