US Politics Thread

[calitennis127]

This makes sense. Large, federalized countries should not have homogeneous responses. The states' autonomy should help putting such an heterogeneous approach in practice, but:

1) There MUST be a general plan under which everyone is working -- even if with regional differences and different time frames;
2) A LOT of coordination is needed, as well as restrict measures to prevent "idiots" riding from one state to another surfing the restrictions wave.

This is doable, but it takes a lot of political maturity, let alone the resources.

Agreed. Obviously there would be some complications, but there always are and that's a part of life. My point is that when you hear about major cities like New York or New Orleans dealing with new cases, it's easy to lose sight of the hundreds upon hundreds of towns, counties, and smaller cities that are basically unaffected by the coronavirus. Those areas could operate like Japan or Sweden with limited closures, social distancing, and relatively normal work days. They don't need to be shut down entirely. That is going too far, unless you are Federbergy/CNN and all you care about is damaging Trump's economy with no regard for how it will impact millions of people.

 

[Federberg]

This is not a revolutionary problem, goodness fucking gracious. It is amazing just how much outlets like CNN have a hold on your mind. They really have you believing that we are living through a World War III-like cataclysm because of the coronavirus.

you really are quite simple aren't you? I don't call you a moron lightly. But you bite on to this CNN thing and you're can't let go Interestingly there actually haven't been economic and social dislocations like this in some countries since World War 2. It's not my fault you're too fucking stupid to observe the impact in some places. That's all on you. Aren't you proud? I won't explain what I meant, I'm fairly sure others on this forum understood the deeper point I was trying to make. Even if you didn't.... moron

 

[britbox]

Quite a good informative press conference.

 

[Moxie]

Federalism makes sense for evolutionary problems, not revolutionary ones. This is one case, like war where it just goes down the crapper..

I agree with this, and concisely put. I guess Cali didn't get it because of the word "revolutionary," though I don't suppose "radical changes" would have helped him any more. (Not in the "takin' it to the streets" way, Cali.) In an extreme crisis, one needs a coherent plan and policy from the Fed. This has been sorely lacking in the US, though they're in big catch-up mode now. Still, Trump admitting that we're going to see a lot of deaths is not the same as having an actual plan going forward. He's still sitting on his hands about getting ventilators and PPE produced in the mass quantities they'll be needed.

 

[mrzz]

In an extreme crisis, one needs a coherent plan and policy from the Fed.

Yes, but you still can implement the plan on a state by state basis, and the different federations deal with its own situations. Actually, my original post #3657 and yours above don't necessarily disagree.

Actually, the "Federalized" approach is the reality on the ground -- for sure the day to day reality of crisis management and practical measures is different in NY and Ohio. The only thing I am saying is that the Federal government approach should explicitly take this into account.

 

[britbox]

I agree with this, and concisely put. I guess Cali didn't get it because of the word "revolutionary," though I don't suppose "radical changes" would have helped him any more. (Not in the "takin' it to the streets" way, Cali.) In an extreme crisis, one needs a coherent plan and policy from the Fed. This has been sorely lacking in the US, though they're in big catch-up mode now. Still, Trump admitting that we're going to see a lot of deaths is not the same as having an actual plan going forward. He's still sitting on his hands about getting ventilators and PPE produced in the mass quantities they'll be needed.

I thought it was his best and most coherent press conference to date. The messages came across loud and clear:

- The gravity of the situation
- States will interpret the Federal guidance...
- The Fed should be the ones negotiating with manufacturers rather than states competing among themselves
- The Fed would retain some emergency capacity to react to and support specific outbreaks. i.e. They are keeping 10,000 ventilators back to move around as and when required to hotspots.

 

[britbox]

Agreed. Obviously there would be some complications, but there always are and that's a part of life. My point is that when you hear about major cities like New York or New Orleans dealing with new cases, it's easy to lose sight of the hundreds upon hundreds of towns, counties, and smaller cities that are basically unaffected by the coronavirus. Those areas could operate like Japan or Sweden with limited closures, social distancing, and relatively normal work days. They don't need to be shut down entirely. That is going too far, unless you are Federbergy/CNN and all you care about is damaging Trump's economy with no regard for how it will impact millions of people.

That makes sense in theory but I imagine it's difficult to manage or implement right now. Once testing is widely available, then it becomes more realistic.

 

[britbox]

Well would you like to clarify what exactly you meant by your dramatic statement that Trump would not be able to put the genie back in the bottle after the Soleimani strike? What was the genie you had in mind?

As for my general point about the shutdowns - it is simply this: not every part of the country needs to be shut down indefinitely. The parts that are higher-density, especially New York, should be cautious. But the U.S. is not a small little nation like Sweden or Finland. We are talking about a vast area that could easily be split into multiple countries. What's best for NYC is not necessarily what's best for Oklahoma and Idaho and rural Minnesota.

I've already answered the first question, you can go back and look for it yourself. Although, I'm not sure what relevance that has to Coronavirus.

On your second point, it's refreshing to see you not doubling down on your original stupidity that the virus was nothing much to worry about and just a concoction of hysteria generated by the Washington Post. Wise choice. Maybe a little more humility from your own end might not go amiss.

Yes, the US is very different from Sweden and one-size-fits-all solutions might not make sense. Same in Australia, due to its vast size. The problem right now and up to this point had been the lack of testing and data because it's a new virus and the contagion rates were so intense. If better testing and monitoring can be rolled out quickly enough then regions should be able to make better-informed decisions more suited to their local population.

 

[Moxie]

I thought it was his best and most coherent press conference to date. The messages came across loud and clear:

- The gravity of the situation
- States will interpret the Federal guidance...
- The Fed should be the ones negotiating with manufacturers rather than states competing among themselves
- The Fed would retain some emergency capacity to react to and support specific outbreaks. i.e. They are keeping 10,000 ventilators back to move around as and when required to hotspots.

I'll be happy if this really gets enacted.

 

[calitennis127]

you really are quite simple aren't you? I don't call you a moron lightly.

Oh look, someone is still bitter that he was the #1 saphead in falling for the Russian collusion tinfoil conspiracy theory, so now he is lashing out at other people over being such an idiot. It's almost cute. It's nice to see that you are trying to salvage your self-respect after being owned in argument after argument. Are you still expecting members of the Trump administration to be assassinated by the Iranians tonight? Are you getting your hopes up?

Interestingly there actually haven't been economic and social dislocations like this in some countries since World War 2.

Right, dumbass, "economic and social dislocations" - exactly what I have been warning about since Day 1 and why I have been saying that governments are overreacting.

It's not my fault you're too fucking stupid to observe the impact in some places.

Oh look.....someone is trying to talk aggressively now to sound tough and cover up how fruity he is. But as for the substance of what you are saying - I have been the loudest voice on this board about the impact on various countries throughout the world. So you are preaching to the preacher himself. I have been pointing all that out since Day 1.

I won't explain what I meant, I'm fairly sure others on this forum understood the deeper point I was trying to make. Even if you didn't.... moron

Oh yeah.....that was such a deep point. You were observing what anyone with common sense has seen from Day 1: that government overreactions could be calamitous for the global economy. Good call. Glad you finally noticed that after only seeing anti-Trump points to score.

 

[calitennis127]

I agree with this, and concisely put. I guess Cali didn't get it because of the word "revolutionary," though I don't suppose "radical changes" would have helped him any more. (Not in the "takin' it to the streets" way, Cali.)

I don't care how you define "revolutionary" - whether in the sense of a political movement or some kind of drastic historical event. I take issue with the idea that the coronavirus is impacting even 90% of America as a public health crisis. The USA is far more than New York City and New Orleans and a few other densely populated places. Most parts of the country are not being affected by the coronavirus and will not be affected. They should not have their economies entirely stomped on because New York is having a rough time. The whole point of what mrzz and I were discussing is precisely that there DO NOT have to be drastic economic consequences for most places throughout the world because of this virus. That is why we agreed on a more localized and federalist approach.

 

[calitennis127]

That makes sense in theory but I imagine it's difficult to manage or implement right now. Once testing is widely available, then it becomes more realistic.

I completely disagree with this excessive "more testing, more testing, more testing" push. All this will result in is identifying a slew of completely frivolous cases and panicked over-reporting of the problem. Hospitals don't need to be flooded by herds of people who just want to say "hey, I was tested. Look at how with-the-program I am."

The rule of thumb should be: if you are conventionally sick (cold, fever, flu-like symptoms) and you go to the doctor, get checked for coronavirus as part of your evaluation. But this push for massive-scale testing is just going to be a waste of time and diversion of resources from the people who actually need the most care and attention. And what I am saying here is consistent with the message from Dr. Birx.

 

[calitennis127]

I've already answered the first question, you can go back and look for it yourself. Although, I'm not sure what relevance that has to Coronavirus.

The relevance is that in both cases you have been hysterical. And no, you never answered the first question. You simply said that Trump would not be able to put the genie back in the bottle, implying that some sort of chaotic and irreparable situation was being created in the Middle East. So that's why I am asking you to clarify. Apparently you don't want to clarify because you don't want to admit that you were being overly emotional - although to your credit, you did not say anything as stupid as Federberg predicting a slew of international assassinations. (He clearly can't forgive me for pointing out that he said that because it makes him look ridiculous.)

On your second point, it's refreshing to see you not doubling down on your original stupidity that the virus was nothing much to worry about and just a concoction of hysteria generated by the Washington Post. Wise choice.

I'm not retracting anything here. I completely stand by my original contentions that there is a huge political dimension to this crisis that is media-driven. That's not to say that the virus itself is made up, but it is to say that the media have immense power in shaping public attitudes and that they have wanted this crisis to be as bad as possible to attack Trump.

I also think that in the end - once everyone calms down, assesses the final data, and returns to mental reality - there will be some acknowledgement that in many places throughout the world there was a total overreaction to the virus that was unwarranted. That is not a fashionable thing to say at the moment, but check this post in 5-6 months and see if I was right. I think there will be some self-reflection in many quarters that the economic shutdowns all over the place were overboard.

Yes, the US is very different from Sweden and one-size-fits-all solutions might not make sense. Same in Australia, due to its vast size. The problem right now and up to this point had been the lack of testing and data because it's a new virus and the contagion rates were so intense.

You should be careful what you wish for in terms of added testing. What that is likely to do (besides waste a massive amount of energy and money) is drive the mortality rate numbers lower and lower. And in time that will make the economic shutdowns look increasingly ridiculous because people will ask: did we really just shut down the global economy over that?

 

[Federberg]

Oh look, someone is still bitter that he was the #1 saphead in falling for the Russian collusion tinfoil conspiracy theory, so now he is lashing out at other people over being such an idiot. It's almost cute. It's nice to see that you are trying to salvage your self-respect after being owned in argument after argument. Are you still expecting members of the Trump administration to be assassinated by the Iranians tonight? Are you getting your hopes up?



Right, dumbass, "economic and social dislocations" - exactly what I have been warning about since Day 1 and why I have been saying that governments are overreacting.



Oh look.....someone is trying to talk aggressively now to sound tough and cover up how fruity he is. But as for the substance of what you are saying - I have been the loudest voice on this board about the impact on various countries throughout the world. So you are preaching to the preacher himself. I have been pointing all that out since Day 1.




Oh yeah.....that was such a deep point. You were observing what anyone with common sense has seen from Day 1: that government overreactions could be calamitous for the global economy. Good call. Glad you finally noticed that after only seeing anti-Trump points to score.

I get it. You don’t understand. That’s ok..... moron

 

[Federberg]

You should be careful what you wish for in terms of added testing. What that is likely to do (besides waste a massive amount of energy and money) is drive the mortality rate numbers lower and lower. And in time that will make the economic shutdowns look increasingly ridiculous because people will ask: did we really just shut down the global economy over that?

This is one of the most idiotic things you’ve written and that says a lot. Are you being intentionally stupid? Exactly how many deaths will it take for this not to be a waste of time in your view?

oh and by the way I’m not responsible for your inability to comprehend my assessment of the Soleimani assassination, so keep patting yourself on the back

 

[Federberg]

I reckon there’s street cunning in Trump and his team estimating 100 - 200,000 deaths. When the number ends up less that will be marketed as a great success for the orange one

 

[brokenshoelace]

Just a reminder that over the past month alone we have learned that Cali is a true vanilla faced, black at heart, bible reading, history knowing, red, white and blue cool-aid drinking, democracy championing, genocide justifying, 10/10 ladies pleasuring, medical expert. In addition to being a tennis savant who predicted Berrettini would beat Nadal in straights then called everyone an idiot for calling him out on it when Nadal won in straights, he is a a medical expert of the highest order who with each passing day, is proven as wrong as his orange president is, but somehow keeps yelling louder, the same way he does after every major that Nadal wins. An intellectual gigolo of breathtaking rarity.

Who says there hasn't been any positives to this pandemic?

 

[brokenshoelace]

I'm not retracting anything here. I completely stand by my original contentions that there is a huge political dimension to this crisis that is media-driven. That's not to say that the virus itself is made up, but it is to say that the media have immense power in shaping public attitudes and that they have wanted this crisis to be as bad as possible to attack Trump.

I also think that in the end - once everyone calms down, assesses the final data, and returns to mental reality - there will be some acknowledgement that in many places throughout the world there was a total overreaction to the virus that was unwarranted. That is not a fashionable thing to say at the moment, but check this post in 5-6 months and see if I was right. I think there will be some self-reflection in many quarters that the economic shutdowns all over the place were overboard.



You should be careful what you wish for in terms of added testing. What that is likely to do (besides waste a massive amount of energy and money) is drive the mortality rate numbers lower and lower. And in time that will make the economic shutdowns look increasingly ridiculous because people will ask: did we really just shut down the global economy over that?

Are people stupid because they are right wing idiots, or are they right wing idiots because they're stupid? I'm genuinely asking because almost literally only right wing extremists (and those who deny they're extremists) actually still downplay the virus.

Incoming meltdown of Cali being pissed that I'm referring to his postings as meltdowns in 3...2..1

 

[brokenshoelace]

That's not to say that the virus itself is made up,

Gee, what gave it away?

 

[brokenshoelace]

If you're struggling in this pandemic, remember, it can be worse: You can be Cali struggling day and night in order to tap-dance and dance around his original idiotic statements that continue to be proven wrong by the day as you keep claiming "in the end people will see I'm right," even though as of now, there's zero indication that he is. You can also be more worried about your orange pussy grabbing god than the thousands of people dying.

That's real priorities.