US Politics Thread

[calitennis127]

It is really sad that the two of you just go after each other in childish jabs when there is an actual global crisis going on. It's tiresome and feels incredibly trivial. I think you both have more to contribute. Do what you like, of course, but I think most of us can't be bothered to even read it. Life is short, and definitely feels too precious for the crap, atm.

The problem is that he can't have a substantial conversation on any of the issues because he knows nothing about the United States and simply gets resentful when people point out things he doesn't know. So he resorts to insult toward me because I am constantly pointing out things he is unaware of and exposing his ignorance of the USA. He thinks he sounds sophisticated by using terms such as "genocidal war ideology" to describe American foreign policy, and when someone forces him to actually explain what he means, he resorts to pounding his fist, getting red in the face, and insulting "Americans" - however he defines that group in a given moment.

 

[calitennis127]

That's just Cali creating a strawman because he is a legit walking logical fallacy.

This is the same idiot who argues that because the United States has intervened in the Middle East in the name of spreading democracy/humanitarian intervention (i.e. to save certain Middle Eastern countries from brutal dictators) the country's foreign policy is driven by a "genocidal war ideology." And he is accusing others of engaging in "logical fallacy."

Hilarious.

 

[Moxie]

The problem is that he can't have a substantial conversation on any of the issues because he knows nothing about the United States and simply gets resentful when people point out things he doesn't know. So he resorts to insult toward me because I am constantly pointing out things he is unaware of and exposing his ignorance of the USA. He thinks he sounds sophisticated by using terms such as "genocidal war ideology" to describe American foreign policy, and when someone forces him to actually explain what he means, he resorts to pounding his fist, getting red in the face, and insulting "Americans" - however he defines that group in a given moment.

That's just not true. Broken is clearly informed. As are you. You and I differ on most things, but I wouldn't mind having your opinions, if you could drop the defensiveness and insult. This isn't the Fedal Wars. This isn't trivial blathering over tennis. This is rubber actually hitting the road, and most of us here want to talk about that. If you and Broken want to continue to throw shit at each other like a pair of chimps, have at it, but I'm so bored by you both right now I don't know what to say, when real shit is hitting the fan.

 

[britbox]

Right, Trump was repeating a figure from a model making a ridiculous projection. I totally disagree that the death toll could realistically get that high. Trump is repeating what some of his advisers are telling him - such as the same Dr. Fauci who indicated in early February that the U.S. was keeping a "lid" on the number of coronavirus cases.

I would remind you that last week a British researcher walked back a study making a similar prediction for the United Kingdom.

Neil Ferguson, Doctor Behind Coronavirus Imperial College Study, Revises Predictions

Neil Ferguson, Doctor Behind Coronavirus Imperial College Study, Revises Predictions

The doctor behind a U.K. college study that painted a doomsday scenario over the coronavirus pandemic now says he holds a more optimistic view about the spread.

dailycaller.com

Of course, the estimates will get revised. Britain has closed borders, everyone is in lockdown. The original figures you were spouting were based on the notion of not doing anything.

The UK Government was a bit more tepid - they spoke of a figure of 256,000 for no intervention.

The figures Trump was talking about yesterday (1.6 to 2m) were similarly based on the notion of not doing anything. You might not have watched the full presser but they said estimates these came from multiple models.

There have been draconian interventions, so, fortunately, nobody will ever know what the real death toll would have been from your "do virtually nothing" style of approach.

 

[calitennis127]

That's just not true. Broken is clearly informed. As are you.

How is Broken informed? All he does is take a lazy glance at a few left-wing Western news sites and then insult Trump and say "Americans" - however he defines that group - are dumb. I have never seen him demonstrate the slightest knowledge of American political affairs beyond repeating the most generalized cliches imaginable (such as insults of Trump or saying that Hillary is corrupt). Even though I pick at Federberg, he does actually read news stories about America and pick up some details. I see no evidence that Bwoken does that.

 

[calitennis127]

There have been draconian interventions, so, fortunately, nobody will ever know what the real death toll would have been from your "do virtually nothing" style of approach.

No, lol. As I pointed out weeks ago, there is a huge range of possibility between totally shutting down the economy and doing nothing. You are trying to present this as an either-or when it's not. The United States is much bigger than just New York City and 1 nursing home in Washington. The entire country does not need to be shut down simply because NYC and a few a other high-density areas are having a rough time.

I am looking at the whole picture, while you are simply buying into the hype of the major media. This is another aspect of the decisionmaking that you are dismissing as trivial: devastating economic impact. Look at the numbers below. These numbers are only going to get worse. The U.S. could be doing a few localized shutdowns without allowing this absurdity to unfold.....

Coronavirus economic updates: 3.28 million unemployment filings shatter 1982 record of 695,000
March 26, 2020

Coronavirus economic updates: 3.28 million unemployment filings shatter 1982 record of 695,000

The health crisis has increasingly become an economic one.

abcnews.go.com

 

[britbox]

No, lol. As I pointed out weeks ago, there is a huge range of possibility between totally shutting down the economy and doing nothing. You are trying to present this as an either-or when it's not. The United States is much bigger than just New York City and 1 nursing home in Washington. The entire country does not need to be shut down simply because NYC and a few a other high-density areas are having a rough time.

I am looking at the whole picture, while you are simply buying into the hype of the major media. This is another aspect of the decisionmaking that you are dismissing as trivial: devastating economic impact. Look at the numbers below. These numbers are only going to get worse. The U.S. could be doing a few localized shutdowns without allowing this absurdity to unfold.....

Coronavirus economic updates: 3.28 million unemployment filings shatter 1982 record of 695,000
March 26, 2020

Coronavirus economic updates: 3.28 million unemployment filings shatter 1982 record of 695,000

The health crisis has increasingly become an economic one.

abcnews.go.com

It's not just NYC or a nursing home in Washington though is it Cali? That was last week's argument. Catch up.

I'm not trivialising the Economic argument. I pointed out in a post some pages back that there is a valid case to be argued. I just don't happen to agree with it. It was about the only half sensible thing you came to the table with during this entire process.

 

[calitennis127]

It's not just NYC or a nursing home in Washington though is it Cali? That was last week's argument. Catch up.

The United States is a country of 327 million people, 22,000 of whom have already died from the flu this year. Measures can be taken to protect people without shutting down the entire economy in all 50 states. Look at what Taiwan has done.

Plus, the U.S. already has the cure. The FDA just approved it. All that is needed now is to get the anti-Trump Democrats who are obstructing its circulation out of the way. The authorities need to get this combo out as quickly as possible so that patients can be restored to normal health and the economy can be re-opened.


DR. VLADIMIR ZELENKO HAS NOW TREATED 699 CORONAVIRUS PATIENTS WITH 100% SUCCESS USING HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE SULFATE, ZINC AND Z-PAK

Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has now treated 699 coronavirus patients with 100% success using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc and Z-Pak

Now, Dr. Zelenko provides updates on the treatment after he successfully treated 699 COVID-19 patients in New York. In an exclusive interview with former New York Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, Dr. Vladmir Zelenko shares the results of his latest study, which showed that out of his 699 patients treated...

www.rightnowmn.org

 

[calitennis127]

And people wonder why Trump and others use the term "Fake News".....this is the kind of scum the majority of American media are (see below). When some completely misinformed non-American like Lebanese Elmer mocks Trump for using the term "Fake News," he only reveals his total lack of awareness of the American media scene and what goes on all the time with lying and sloppiness from the networks Trump criticizes.

CBS News Airs Footage Of Italian Hospital While Reporting On New York’s Coronavirus Crisis

CBS News Airs Footage Of Italian Hospital While Reporting On New York’s Coronavirus Crisis

CBS News aired footage of an Italian hospital while reporting on New York hospitals and the ventilator shortage on March 25.

dailycaller.com

 

[Federberg]

I know Trump can shoot someone on 5th Avenue but health care workers are the fire fighters of this crisis. Is this wise???

Trump accuses US health care workers of hoarding surgical masks

President Donald Trump at a White House coronavirus press briefing Sunday urged the media to investigate why requests for surgical masks have increased from 10,000 to 300,000.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[calitennis127]

It's not just NYC or a nursing home in Washington though is it Cali?

I mentioned other "high-density areas." Look at my full quote: "The United States is much bigger than just New York City and 1 nursing home in Washington. The entire country does not need to be shut down simply because NYC and a few a other high-density areas are having a rough time."

Be honest please, don't act like a BBC or CNN reporter and omit critical parts of a statement. I mentioned "a few other high-density areas" because of what is happening in New Orleans and a few other places. But I stand by my position that not every county of every state needs to be shut down because of what is happening in some high-density areas. The United State is more than just a handful of cities. The virus can be stymied and fought effectively without shutting down the economy in every county of every state.

 

[britbox]

I mentioned other "high-density areas." Look at my full quote: "The United States is much bigger than just New York City and 1 nursing home in Washington. The entire country does not need to be shut down simply because NYC and a few a other high-density areas are having a rough time."

Be honest please, don't act like a BBC or CNN reporter and omit critical parts of a statement. I mentioned "a few other high-density areas" because of what is happening in New Orleans and a few other places. But I stand by my position that not every county of every state needs to be shut down because of what is happening in a few high-density areas. The United State is more than just a handful of cities. The virus can be stymied and fought effectively without shutting down the economy in every county of every state.

Sorry for "under-quoting" you. Slightly preferable to your complete misrepresentations of my posts where 700 million are going to drop down dead per sneeze.

 

[mrzz]

This isn't the Fedal Wars

Well, of course. I doubt anyone ever believed it would get that bad...

 

[calitennis127]

Sorry for "under-quoting" you. Slightly preferable to your complete misrepresentations of my posts where 700 million are going to drop down dead per sneeze.

Well would you like to clarify what exactly you meant by your dramatic statement that Trump would not be able to put the genie back in the bottle after the Soleimani strike? What was the genie you had in mind?

As for my general point about the shutdowns - it is simply this: not every part of the country needs to be shut down indefinitely. The parts that are higher-density, especially New York, should be cautious. But the U.S. is not a small little nation like Sweden or Finland. We are talking about a vast area that could easily be split into multiple countries. What's best for NYC is not necessarily what's best for Oklahoma and Idaho and rural Minnesota.

 

[brokenshoelace]

This is the same idiot who argues that because the United States has intervened in the Middle East in the name of spreading democracy/humanitarian intervention (i.e. to save certain Middle Eastern countries from brutal dictators) the country's foreign policy is driven by a "genocidal war ideology." And he is accusing others of engaging in "logical fallacy."

Hilarious.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAVVVHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAVVVHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAVVVVHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAVVVHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[brokenshoelace]

WOW, no honestly, and I'm 100% serious when I say this: We usually call people stupid as an insult, but this guy actually thinks Americans spent trillions of dollars on wars in which they butchered thousands "in the name of democracy."

Yes, Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in the name of democracy.

This guy is legitimately a walking example of what makes people like him a laughing stock. There's nothing wrong with being stupid. You can't control it. After all, it's how Jesus made you. But oh my god you cannot be THAT stupid.

 

[mrzz]

The United State is more than just a handful of cities. The virus can be stymied and fought effectively without shutting down the economy in every county of every state.

This makes sense. Large, federalized countries should not have homogeneous responses. The states' autonomy should help putting such an heterogeneous approach in practice, but:

1) There MUST be a general plan under which everyone is working -- even if with regional differences and different time frames;
2) A LOT of coordination is needed, as well as restrict measures to prevent "idiots" riding from one state to another surfing the restrictions wave.

This is doable, but it takes a lot of political maturity, let alone the resources. Here in Brazil, oddly enough, this is happening to some (limited) extent (courtesy of states having to work basically on their own. State governors created some kind of association to coordinate their actions).

 

[Federberg]

This makes sense. Large, federalized countries should not have homogeneous responses. The states' autonomy should help putting such an heterogeneous approach in practice, but:

1) There MUST be a general plan under which everyone is working -- even if with regional differences and different time frames;
2) A LOT of coordination is needed, as well as restrict measures to prevent "idiots" riding from one state to another surfing the restrictions wave.

This is doable, but it takes a lot of political maturity, let alone the resources. Here in Brazil, oddly enough, this is happening to some (limited) extent (courtesy of states having to work basically on their own. State governors created some kind of association to coordinate their actions).

Federalism makes sense for evolutionary problems, not revolutionary ones. This is one case, like war where it just goes down the crapper..

 

[calitennis127]

WOW, no honestly, and I'm 100% serious when I say this: We usually call people stupid as an insult, but this guy actually thinks Americans spent trillions of dollars on wars in which they butchered thousands "in the name of democracy."

Like I have said a million times, you are a complete fucking dumbass. Your arrogance in thinking you have the United States all figured out is simply a cover for your total ignorance about the United States. You don't even know who the basic players are in American foreign policy and what their worldview is.

Another problem here is that you think the only ideas that can motivate someone to do something destructive are traditional religious ones. The possibility of a secular ideology (such as "global democracy") inspiring people to kill with the intention of improving humanity is something that your ignorant ass knows nothing about.

Let's take Christopher Hitchens.....murat and I talked about this a few years ago. He was one of the West's most outspoken atheists and he hated Christianity. But he supported the war in Iraq because he wanted to use it to secularize the Middle East. The main architects of the war in Iraq believed in his vision fully.

Now, of course, you are going to make the case that the U.S. power elite secretly engaged in war on Iraq to gain wealth and power in the Middle East, but if that was strictly their motive, then the mission in Afghanistan would make no sense. The U.S. has lost far more wealth there than it could ever gain.

This guy is legitimately a walking example of what makes people like him a laughing stock.

Being a "laughing stock" to you simply means being right. You are a complete tool and a low-information ignoramus. I have said this dozens of times.

You use a term like "genocidal war ideology" to sound sophisticated, but no one here except myself calls you out for using such an asinine phrase and also for failing to justify it. To date you still have not named a single foreign policy theorist or figure who has written a book or policy paper that justifies this "genocidal war ideology."

I, on the other hand, could cite numerous documents produced by neoconservative ideologues who believe in an ideal of global democracy and have advocated it. You don't know anything about that and simply settle for your boneheaded generalizations about American foreign policy. As I have said numerous times, you are a complete joke and ignoramus who knows nothing - the Lebanese Elmer Fudd, BwokenWooWace.

 

[calitennis127]

Federalism makes sense for evolutionary problems, not revolutionary ones. This is one case, like war where it just goes down the crapper..

This is not a revolutionary problem, goodness fucking gracious. It is amazing just how much outlets like CNN have a hold on your mind. They really have you believing that we are living through a World War III-like cataclysm because of the coronavirus.