US Politics Thread

[britbox]

This is just unbelievable.....and Federberg perfectly represents the mindset of the American and Western European media. Instead of blaming China, they are focusing their ire on the American health system, which Johns Hopkins has rated as the best prepared in the world for a pandemic like this.

Also, what does it say about this pandemic (assuming that the likes of Federberg are right that there are hundreds of thousands who have the virus but not have been diagnosed yet) that people are going about their lives normally without even knowing they have it? Shouldn't they all be dropping dead with hives like the Black Plague is hitting them if it so bad?

Nobody is saying everybody should be "dropping dead like flies". As Junior Soprano said "We're not making a Western here"... what we're saying here is that it's epidemic contagion with above-average death rates.

Governments can't control it because people don't have immunity. What they are doing is putting in fairly harsh measures to control the speed of the spread.

If you have 50 million people seeking urgent medical help in a week as opposed to those numbers being spread over two or three months, then obviously that's going to have far greater ramifications.

 

[britbox]

What I am saying is that the world economy does not need to be shut down for 3 months for a virus that causes fatalities predominantly in people over the age of 80. I'm not objecting to taking some precautions. I am objecting togoing overboard to the point that you cause completely unnecessary economic damage.

So, what's your tipping point? If your Chief Medical Advisor says mass gatherings of people will accelerate infection and you don't think you have the medical support services to deal with his projections, what do you do?

a) Fuck it, missing a few NBA matches isn't a price worth paying.
b) Cancel a few events, and buy some extra time to mitigate where possible.

 

[britbox]

This is just unbelievable.....and Federberg perfectly represents the mindset of the American and Western European media. Instead of blaming China, they are focusing their ire on the American health system, which Johns Hopkins has rated as the best prepared in the world for a pandemic like this.

Also, what does it say about this pandemic (assuming that the likes of Federberg are right that there are hundreds of thousands who have the virus but not have been diagnosed yet) that people are going about their lives normally without even knowing they have it? Shouldn't they all be dropping dead with hives like the Black Plague is hitting them if it so bad?

I don't know who the fuck John Hopkins is, but from what I've seen the US has hardly conducted any tests, some of the testing kits they produced didn't even work and you've probably got an epidemic in the works. I'm not sure why you rate yourself the best in the world at handling a pandemic. Maybe it derives from the same mindset that lets you call your national champs, "World Champions"

 

[calitennis127]

Nobody is saying everybody should be "dropping dead like flies".

I totally disagree. I think the implication absolutely is that there will be mass death.

Governments can't control it because people don't have immunity. What they are doing is putting in fairly harsh measures to control the speed of the spread.

If you have 50 million people seeking urgent medical help in a week as opposed to those numbers being spread over two or three months, then obviously that's going to have far greater ramifications.

We simply disagree on how potent and ferocious this virus actually is. Were you this concerned when swine flu was killing tens of thousands of people in 2009? Or did you have the casual attitude of the Obama administration that it would all work out and not be that big a deal?

 

[calitennis127]

So, what's your tipping point? If your Chief Medical Advisor says mass gatherings of people will accelerate infection and you don't think you have the medical support services to deal with his projections, what do you do?

Why are you assuming that everything the medical advisors are saying supports the policy of international shutdowns? Do you seriously think that government leaders are just doing what the doctors say, or that the doctors are only making their recommendations for scientific reasons?

Consider this story from the LA Times. It appears that you Britbox are the one who is denying what the top medical researchers are saying, especially if you look at the last two paragraphs that I underlined and italicized. Do you really think that the global economy should be shut down for a virus that has a mortality rate of 2.3% (and almost certainly less)?



The risk of serious illness due to COVID-19 is far higher for people who are older and have underlying medical conditions. People 60 and older accounted for more than 80% of the deaths in China, according to a major study in the Journal of the American Medical Assn.

But rare exceptions have popped up in the scientific literature, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

“There will be, as we’ve seen in influenza, an occasional person, who’s young and healthy, who winds up getting COVID-19, seriously ill and dies,” Fauci said in an interview with Dr. Howard Bauchner, the editor of JAMA. “But if you look at the weight of the data, the risk group is very, very clear.”

With the U.S. outbreak in its early stages, there isn’t yet good data on the ages and other characteristics of infected patients here. So experts have relied on the analysis of nearly 45,000 COVID-19 patients in China that was conducted by the country’s Center for Disease Control and Prevention.

The study accounts for more than a third of all reported cases of the disease. Worldwide, 118,000 people have been diagnosed with the disease so far and 4,200 have died from it.

The study identified very few deaths among people under 40. More than 12,000 people in that age group were infected, but only 26 died. It is unclear if those people had other medical conditions, such as asthma or cancer, that may have made them more vulnerable.

The study found that the chance of dying from COVID-19 clearly increases with age.

There were no reported deaths from COVID-19 in children under 10, and other studies have suggested that children who are infected do not become very sick.

These are the COVID-19 mortality rates by age calculated by the Chinese CDC:

• ages 10-19: 0.2%
• ages 20-29: 0.2%
• ages 30-39: 0.2%
• ages 40-49: 0.4%
• ages 50-59: 1.3%
• ages 60-69: 3.6%
• ages 70-79: 8%
• 80 and over: 14.8%

The overall mortality rate estimated by researchers was 2.3%, but experts caution that it is likely exaggerated due to milder cases that have gone uncounted.

As for the younger deaths, they represent what you would see if you pored over any disease data with a magnifying glass, experts say.

What's the risk of COVID-19 for a healthy young person?

A 32-year-old New Jersey man was hospitalized with COVID-19. His Twitter video, viewed half a million times, caused concern among younger people.

www.latimes.com

 

[britbox]

I totally disagree. I think the implication absolutely is that there will be mass death.



We simply disagree on how potent and ferocious this virus actually is. Were you this concerned when swine flu was killing tens of thousands of people in 2009? Or did you have the casual attitude of the Obama administration that it would all work out and not be that big a deal?

I don't think Obama crossed my mind in 2009. I'm not American. Or risk-averse particularly.

If governments all around the globe had been behaving then as they are now, then sure - it would have been a big deal. But they weren't.

By the way, you talk about Obama's "casual attitude" to that virus, and yet here you are with a similarly "casual attitude" to the current one. Which "attitude" do you want from a US president?

 

[calitennis127]

If governments all around the globe had been behaving then as they are now, then sure - it would have been a big deal. But they weren't.

And why weren't they? I'll tell you: because the international media - spearheaded by the scum in the American media - were not trying to destroy a U.S. president they hated.

By the way, you talk about Obama's "casual attitude" to that virus, and yet here you are with a similarly "casual attitude" to the current one. Which "attitude" do you want from a US president?

There is a space between "casual" and shutting the global economy down for three months. I would like something in the middle. Is that too much to ask? I don't think that people need to be taking swings at each other like Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson over toilet paper in aisle 7 because of a virus that has a mortality rate of 2.3% at most.

 

[Federberg]

If Congress agrees to bail out shale oil producers and airlines while refusing to provide more comprehensive healthcare for all Americans even I will consider throwing my support for Bernie. Enough with bailing out the rich. It's got to stop. Bastardised capitalism in my view... socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. Makes my blood boil...

 

[britbox]

And why weren't they? I'll tell you: because the international media - spearheaded by the scum in the American media - were not trying to destroy a U.S. president they hated.



There is a space between "casual" and shutting the global economy down for three months. I would like something in the middle. Is that too much to ask? I don't think that people need to be taking swings at each other like Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson over toilet paper in aisle 7 because of a virus that has a mortality rate of 2.3% at most.

I think we've done this already. The Chinese didn't quarantine Wuhan because of the Washington Post. Italy didn't lock down either because of the Washington Post. Nobody really gives two fucks about the Washington Post, to be honest. More people probably read the Beano comic in the Uk, and they stopped printing that about ten years ago.

 

[britbox]

If Congress agrees to bail out shale oil producers and airlines while refusing to provide more comprehensive healthcare for all Americans even I will consider throwing my support for Bernie. Enough with bailing out the rich. It's got to stop. Bastardised capitalism in my view... socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. Makes my blood boil...

Russia's revenge with the American shale industry.

 

[Federberg]

Russia's revenge with the American shale industry.

or the Saudi's! They can't love those shale producers. Pelosi simply has to block any bail out attempts, by poisoning any bill

 

[britbox]

or the Saudi's! They can't love those shale producers. Pelosi simply has to block any bail out attempts, by poisoning any bill

It can't work for the Saudis long term though. Russia will do it to f^^k both of them. Putin's already said he can maintain that oil price for 5 years if he has to. Something tells me the Americans and Saudis will both probably regret trying to fuck the Russians over a few years ago. Putin's a geopolitical grandmaster when it comes to playing the long game.

 

[Federberg]

Gov. DeWine: 100,000 believed to have coronavirus in Ohio, number projected to double every six days

The state of Ohio is seeing "very difficult times" under the threat of the coronavirus pandemic, Gov. Mike DeWine said Friday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Federberg]

It can't work for the Saudis long term though. Russia will do it to f^^k both of them. Putin's already said he can maintain that oil price for 5 years if he has to. Something tells me the Americans and Saudis will both probably regret trying to fuck the Russians over a few years ago. Putin's a geopolitical grandmaster when it comes to playing the long game.

In the short/medium term the Saudis can last longer with lower oil prices. Longer term it's a toss up. Depends on who has greater control over the population. Neither will do well. As for the US shale producers will be fkd, but consumers get a little boost. I think shale producers can survive half a year at these levels in general. But some might be unlucky with the hedging structures they've used

 

[calitennis127]

I think we've done this already. The Chinese didn't quarantine Wuhan because of the Washington Post. Italy didn't lock down either because of the Washington Post.

Again, THOSE ARE THE TWO WORST EXAMPLES! China and Italy are not the whole world. The question at hand is whether shutting down the global economy for three months is an appropriate response to a virus that has a mortality rate of 2.3%, if that. If you think this response is proportionate, then you are just being washed up in the hysteria. Someone like Federberg wants the economic crash because he wants Trump to lose. I assure you that if Obama was president Federberg would not be cheering every cancellation like he is now.

Nobody really gives two fucks about the Washington Post, to be honest.

Except journalists across the world who write the stories that create the consensus that policy is based on. The Washington Post is highly respected in the circles of people with the most influence.

 

[Federberg]

Again, THOSE ARE THE TWO WORST EXAMPLES! China and Italy are not the whole world. The question at hand is whether shutting down the global economy for three months is an appropriate response to a virus that has a mortality rate of 2.3%, if that. If you think this response is proportionate, then you are just being washed up in the hysteria. Someone like Federberg wants the economic crash because he wants Trump to lose. I assure you that if Obama was president Federberg would not be cheering every cancellation like he is now.



Except journalists across the world who write the stories that create the consensus that policy is based on. The Washington Post is highly respected in the circles of people with the most influence.

I don't want the economy to crash you dumb fuck. I have a business and a life that exists outside of my loathing of Trump. You have a really one dimensional view of things mate. It doesn't revolve around Trump, Wapo or even the United States. But if Trump loses because of this then at least it's icing on a total shit cake

 

[britbox]

Again, THOSE ARE THE TWO WORST EXAMPLES! China and Italy are not the whole world. The question at hand is whether shutting down the global economy for three months is an appropriate response to a virus that has a mortality rate of 2.3%, if that. If you think this response is proportionate, then you are just being washed up in the hysteria. Someone like Federberg wants the economic crash because he wants Trump to lose. I assure you that if Obama was president Federberg would not be cheering every cancellation like he is now.



Except journalists across the world who write the stories that create the consensus that policy is based on. The Washington Post is highly respected in the circles of people with the most influence.

They aren't the worst examples. They are the best points of reference as they are ahead of the curve when it comes to infection.

You have no idea what the mortality rate is, so stop quoting it at 2.3%. This virus has a long way to go yet. We won't really know the true figures for maybe a year. It may end up being less than that, but then you need to ask yourself what is the number it's a percentage of...

This stuff about the virus and Trump is a total red herring. You're washed up in a ridiculous state of paranoia. By the way, I'm still waiting for your plethora of articles churned out by the Washington Post that convinced China and Italy to go into lockdown.

As for the American reaction? Who is the president calling the shots? If you aren't happy with the way the US Administration is handling this, then maybe point your finger at the person in the chair.

 

[britbox]

Gov. DeWine: 100,000 believed to have coronavirus in Ohio, number projected to double every six days

The state of Ohio is seeing "very difficult times" under the threat of the coronavirus pandemic, Gov. Mike DeWine said Friday.

www.foxnews.com

Fox News eh? Where do they fit into @calitennis127's grand conspiracy theories?

 

[El Dude]

Jerry Falwell Jr calitennis127 claims that COVID-19 is a North Korean bioweapon intended to undermine the Trump presidency.

 

[britbox]

Jerry Falwell Jr calitennis127 claims that COVID-19 is a North Korean bioweapon intended to undermine the Trump presidency.

Do they celebrate Christmas in March throughout North Korea?