US Politics Thread

[britbox]

I doubt he's enough of a catalyst for that. What he did was have a terrible debate performance. He just might not be the billionaire to go against the billionaire that some were hoping for. Democrats don't tolerate racism and sexism in the same way that Republicans seem to, in having tolerated Trump. I still think he should have fought Trump in the Republican primaries. How he was unprepared for those questions, though, does boggle the mind. But does it favor Bernie? I don't see why, just yet.

I just watched a trimmed down version of the debates. Bloomberg was a car crash. Who's your money on? As in likely winner rather than preferred candidate?

 

[Federberg]

I doubt he's enough of a catalyst for that. What he did was have a terrible debate performance. He just might not be the billionaire to go against the billionaire that some were hoping for. Democrats don't tolerate racism and sexism in the same way that Republicans seem to, in having tolerated Trump. I still think he should have fought Trump in the Republican primaries. How he was unprepared for those questions, though, does boggle the mind. But does it favor Bernie? I don't see why, just yet.

He's a billionaire. There aren't too many folks with the stones the give him hard truths. This is one of those times where it badly backfired on him. I don't believe it's fatal for his campaign by any means. He's spending far too much money for that not to overwhelm one bad showing. What will be interesting to see is if he's willing to make the appropriate debate adjustments.

But as to the larger question... it favours Bernie because in the absence of a coherent alternative he'll win the largest share of delegates and it will be over. Because anyone who thinks Bernie gets the largest share of delegates and somehow doesn't get the win is kidding themselves.

PS, it's uncanny how similar this is to the GOP in 2016!

 

[britbox]

He's a billionaire. There aren't too many folks with the stones the give him hard truths. This is one of those times where it badly backfired on him.

That's an interesting point actually. He looked totally bewildered by the onslaught.

I don't believe it's fatal for his campaign by any means. He's spending far too much money for that not to overwhelm one bad showing. What will be interesting to see is if he's willing to make the appropriate debate adjustments.

Not yet... but he's going to have to up his game. Bloomberg looked well out of his depth, and all the other candidates are gunning him from different angles.

But as to the larger question... it favours Bernie because in the absence of a coherent alternative he'll win the largest share of delegates and it will be over. Because anyone who thinks Bernie gets the largest share of delegates and somehow doesn't get the win is kidding themselves.

PS, it's uncanny how similar this is to the GOP in 2016

Absolutely. Bernie could win this before anybody else figured it all out.

 

[tented]

He's a billionaire. There aren't too many folks with the stones the give him hard truths. This is one of those times where it badly backfired on him. I don't believe it's fatal for his campaign by any means. He's spending far too much money for that not to overwhelm one bad showing. What will be interesting to see is if he's willing to make the appropriate debate adjustments.

But as to the larger question... it favours Bernie because in the absence of a coherent alternative he'll win the largest share of delegates and it will be over. Because anyone who thinks Bernie gets the largest share of delegates and somehow doesn't get the win is kidding themselves.

PS, it's uncanny how similar this is to the GOP in 2016!

That's an interesting point actually. He looked totally bewildered by the onslaught.


Not yet... but he's going to have to up his game. Bloomberg looked well out of his depth, and all the other candidates are gunning him from different angles.


Absolutely. Bernie could win this before anybody else figured it all out.

The whole debate for Bloomberg had an Emperor’s New Clothes feel to it. Didn’t anyone tell him he needed to be more prepared than that? If he’s surrounded by people afraid to get in his face, he won’t make it. His team needs to stage a massive intervention if he’s to stay alive.

 

[Moxie]

I just watched a trimmed down version of the debates. Bloomberg was a car crash. Who's your money on? As in likely winner rather than preferred candidate?

TBH, I really don't know at this point.

He's a billionaire. There aren't too many folks with the stones the give him hard truths. This is one of those times where it badly backfired on him. I don't believe it's fatal for his campaign by any means. He's spending far too much money for that not to overwhelm one bad showing. What will be interesting to see is if he's willing to make the appropriate debate adjustments.

But as to the larger question... it favours Bernie because in the absence of a coherent alternative he'll win the largest share of delegates and it will be over. Because anyone who thinks Bernie gets the largest share of delegates and somehow doesn't get the win is kidding themselves.

PS, it's uncanny how similar this is to the GOP in 2016!

I think you're not taking enough on board that the only voting so far has been in Iowa and NH, very small states with a vast majority white population. And Buttigieg trailed him in each by only a little. I'll give you that Bernie polling well, but polls tend to favor name recognition, and I'm willing to bet that most Democrats are a lot like me, in that people are pretty unsure as to where to put their loyalties just yet.

I definitely think you're right that this is similar to GOP in 2016, even talk of brokered convention...already! And that in the debates they didn't go so much after Trump, not giving him a lot of credence. Cruz thought that if he didn't criticize Trump, he'd take his voters when Trump dropped out. (That sounds silly now, I know.) The other night, they went after Bloomberg, and rather left Bernie alone.

A couple of points: Bernie does have a large and loyal following, and he gets out the youth vote. In terms of getting out the vote for the Dems, he may well be the best choice. And on a specific grudge of mine, it really bothers me that Bloomberg could sit back, avoid the debates, wait for many really good candidates who don't have personal wealth to drop out, and then, having switched parties, just swan in and hope to save the day on the strength of his money and his ego.

 

[calitennis127]

Saying your Lord's name again moron?

Lol.....I have bitch-slapped your stupid ass so many times in all these arguments that it is doubtful you'll ever recover from all your concussions. I own you on two fronts:

1) Insults, and

2) Substantive arguments.

This is case and point.

And of course you have nothing substantive to say about Avenatti or the media that slobbered over him. You're a small, petty little man who cannot confront any arguments that are clearly inconvenient for him.

 

[calitennis127]

Is he saying we watch "The View?"

It was far from just "The View" that slobbered over Avenatti you idiot. It was the networks that you consider most credible that did that. Watch the very brief video I posted and you'll see that.

Here are the figures:

"CNN handed Michael Avenatti a whopping 107 live interviews in 2018, while MSNBC gave him 81. Avenatti totaled 214 appearances across every network. At one point, MSNBC and CNN carried dueling 'live' interviews with Avenatti."

But then again, I am talking to someone who thinks Kamala Harris is a black woman and that Tulsi Gabbard works for the Russian government.

So why should I expect you to follow a rational argument?

 

[calitennis127]

Democrats don't tolerate racism and sexism in the same way that Republicans seem to, in having tolerated Trump.

Here comes the board's resident theologian, enforcing her morally fanatical dogma and drawing the line when it comes to "racism" and "sexism."

Yes, Donald Trump - the guy who boasts in every rally about low African-American and Hispanic-American unemployment - is a racist. Donald Trump - the guy who passed the left's wet dream of criminal justice reform - is a racist. Donald Trump - the guy who increased funding to Historically Black Colleges and Universities - is a racist. Donald Trump - the guy who has promoted investment in opportunity zones - is a racist. Donald Trump - the guy who simply ran on an immigration policy that numerous prior Democrats including Obama advocated - is a racist. Sure.

Here is a more likely possibility than Donald Trump being a "racist":

Moxie is simply a misinformed idiot and a bigot against people and groups it is fashionable to be bigoted against.

That appears to be a far more accurate characterization.

 

[calitennis127]

I definitely think you're right that this is similar to GOP in 2016, even talk of brokered convention...already! And that in the debates they didn't go so much after Trump, not giving him a lot of credence.

Lol.....yeah, sure. The Democratic Party whose entire purpose has been harassing Trump and indulging their obsession with Trump since the summer of 2015. The Democratic Party whose House leadership works day and night to get him impeached. The Democratic Party whose candidates up until very recently avoided attacking each other because all they could talk about was Trump, Trump, Trump.

But yeah, you're right, they ignore him so judiciously. Especially Adam Schiff - who spends his entire life thinking about Donald Trump and trying to take him out.

Do you think Adam Schiff needs a hobby?

Maybe he could take up tennis. He would have a good shot at being as good as all the white geeks in the USA who play it. That would probably be better for his mental and physical health than thinking about Donald Trump 18 hours per day.

 

[Moxie]

This is case and point.

The expression is "case in point." Google it and you'll learn how to use it.

 

[Federberg]

hard to see anything other than Sanders winning the candidacy. Well done democrats, you are a bunch of monumentally incompetent political activists. I don’t want to hear any whining when Trump gets two additional Supreme Court picks

 

[Moxie]

hard to see anything other than Sanders winning the candidacy. Well done democrats, you are a bunch of monumentally incompetent political activists. I don’t want to hear any whining when Trump gets two additional Supreme Court picks

Clearly you don't think Bernie is electable, even with a large and loyal following, and the ability to energize the youth vote.

 

[Federberg]

Clearly you don't think Bernie is electable, even with a large and loyal following, and the ability to energize the youth vote.

I do not. I think it comes down to a handful of States and frankly Florida is probably completely off the cards with this Cuba nonsense. I get the argument that Sanders can bring in a new voting base, but in all likelihood these are folks who are most likely located in already blue States, big deal if he wins the popular vote, it doesn't matter. The problem with Sanders is that never Trumpers won't vote for him. The advantage that moderates like Klobuchar, Biden and Bloomberg have is that they will dissuade some voters from going for Trump. They might not bring in as many new voters, but this should be an election that is a referendum on Trump, all elections against an incumbent have to be about that. But with Sanders it will be a straight vote against a decent economy versus a change that I doubt that most Americans want. It's one of the dumbest showings of electoral self sabotage I have ever seen. Nothing I've seen so far from Democrats shows they have the stuff that's needed to win. They have even managed to make healthcare an issue that leaves doubt about whether they are better custodians than the GOP. I'm so disgusted that if I was a voter I might even vote against them. The self righteousness I hear from people like Warren makes me want to puke. It's like what happened in the UK has completely flown right by them. Ask yourself why Putin wants Sanders to win. There is a collective fantasy that would be laughable if it wasn't so serious. For fucks sake NATO is at risk. So what if Bloomberg did stop and frisk, does anyone really believe he would do it again? It's pathetic

 

[tented]

I do not. I think it comes down to a handful of States and frankly Florida is probably completely off the cards with this Cuba nonsense. I get the argument that Sanders can bring in a new voting base, but in all likelihood these are folks who are most likely located in already blue States, big deal if he wins the popular vote, it doesn't matter. The problem with Sanders is that never Trumpers won't vote for him. The advantage that moderates like Klobuchar, Biden and Bloomberg have is that they will dissuade some voters from going for Trump. They might not bring in as many new voters, but this should be an election that is a referendum on Trump, all elections against an incumbent have to be about that. But with Sanders it will be a straight vote against a decent economy versus a change that I doubt that most Americans want. It's one of the dumbest showings of electoral self sabotage I have ever seen. Nothing I've seen so far from Democrats shows they have the stuff that's needed to win. They have even managed to make healthcare an issue that leaves doubt about whether they are better custodians than the GOP. I'm so disgusted that if I was a voter I might even vote against them. The self righteousness I hear from people like Warren makes me want to puke. It's like what happened in the UK has completely flown right by them. Ask yourself why Putin wants Sanders to win. There is a collective fantasy that would be laughable if it wasn't so serious. For fucks sake NATO is at risk. So what if Bloomberg did stop and frisk, does anyone really believe he would do it again? It's pathetic

I agree. This election will come down to less than 50,000 votes in a handful of states (most notably Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania). Swing voters in those states are not going to vote for a “socialist” or “communist” — which is exactly how he will be relentlessly described by the Republicans. This will also motivate even more Republicans to vote to make sure Sanders loses. Democrats will set themselves up to lose the Presidency, to have zero chance of taking back the Senate, and likely to lose the House again. Total defeat.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Sanders cannot win against Trump. Dems party establishment know that and they try hard every time to get rid of him . Sander's problem is he has not met a communist leader he has not liked or a communist country he does not admire. Until such time people die trying to cross the border from South Korea to North Korea, or start building makeshift boats to escape to Cuba from Florida, majority of the Americans will not buy what he is selling. Sure the blue haired SJW that is studying Lesbian Architecture, being taught by a Marxist professor will vote for him but that will not be enough. You may say he is just a Social Democrat but tons of videos of him on Youtube will disprove that theory very quickly.
Dems are missing such a great opportunity here. Anyone that is a centrist and half likeable would have have a huge chance with the swing voters. But Dems like AOC kill the centrists the minute they speak up. So they don't and here we are, stuck with a sorry excuse for a human being for 4 more years.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I don't know about Biden man...He really does not have it together up there anymore. He slurs, he looks like he is half dead and his numbers are funny

Biden Claims Half of U.S. Population Killed by Guns Since 2007

"150 million people have been killed since 2007 when Bernie [Sanders] voted to exempt the gun manufacturers from liability," former Vice President Joe Biden said during Tuesday's Democratic debate.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Federberg]

I don't know about Biden man...He really does not have it together up there anymore. He slurs, he looks like he is half dead and his numbers are funny

Biden Claims Half of U.S. Population Killed by Guns Since 2007

"150 million people have been killed since 2007 when Bernie [Sanders] voted to exempt the gun manufacturers from liability," former Vice President Joe Biden said during Tuesday's Democratic debate.

www.newsweek.com

I hear you! It's tragic that despite all that he's still more competent that the orange haired buffoon. Let's face it, a dried turd would be better..

 

[Moxie]

I do not. I think it comes down to a handful of States and frankly Florida is probably completely off the cards with this Cuba nonsense. I get the argument that Sanders can bring in a new voting base, but in all likelihood these are folks who are most likely located in already blue States, big deal if he wins the popular vote, it doesn't matter. The problem with Sanders is that never Trumpers won't vote for him. The advantage that moderates like Klobuchar, Biden and Bloomberg have is that they will dissuade some voters from going for Trump. They might not bring in as many new voters, but this should be an election that is a referendum on Trump, all elections against an incumbent have to be about that. But with Sanders it will be a straight vote against a decent economy versus a change that I doubt that most Americans want. It's one of the dumbest showings of electoral self sabotage I have ever seen. Nothing I've seen so far from Democrats shows they have the stuff that's needed to win. They have even managed to make healthcare an issue that leaves doubt about whether they are better custodians than the GOP. I'm so disgusted that if I was a voter I might even vote against them. The self righteousness I hear from people like Warren makes me want to puke. It's like what happened in the UK has completely flown right by them. Ask yourself why Putin wants Sanders to win. There is a collective fantasy that would be laughable if it wasn't so serious. For fucks sake NATO is at risk. So what if Bloomberg did stop and frisk, does anyone really believe he would do it again? It's pathetic

I don't disagree that a moderate would have a better chance of picking up Never Trumpers and some moderates who may have voted Trump last time, but have found him off-putting as a leader. I AM concerned that Bernie seems to be heading for the nomination. I just want to point out the irony of your calling Sanders' talking about Cuba as "nonsense," when Trump is allowed to fall in love with Kim Jung Un and Vladimir Putin. I realize that Trump gets away with everything, but it is funny how these old WWII/Cold War tropes play out, one side and the other. Nowadays, dictators are OK, but only if they're Trump's dictators, i.e., right-wing ones. Any amount of Russian interference is OK and can't be discussed. Even though the Russians were our enemies for decades, as has been North Korea, and both are actually nuclear threats. However, if a Democrat talks about Socialism, which really does exist in this country, in some of our favorite policies, across the board and across all political stripes, he becomes vilified and unelectable. Castro actually did do really good things for Cuba, post-Batista and the very repressive regimes that preceded him, and Castro was never any threat to the US, after the Cuban Missile Crisis. And yet we still pretend that the aging Cubans in Miami hold sway over how Florida votes. I'm not pretending that the rhetoric doesn't work against Bernie, and progressive Dems on Medicare for all, but I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make logical sense that they're perfectly happy to pull in with the other side of the Cold War and ignore/embrace what we used to fear or actively fought against.

I agree. This election will come down to less than 50,000 votes in a handful of states (most notably Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania). Swing voters in those states are not going to vote for a “socialist” or “communist” — which is exactly how he will be relentlessly described by the Republicans. This will also motivate even more Republicans to vote to make sure Sanders loses. Democrats will set themselves up to lose the Presidency, to have zero chance of taking back the Senate, and likely to lose the House again. Total defeat.

As I said above, it's amazing that people will vote for what they used to hate and yet still hang onto some fear of "Socialism," against their own interests. If that's really who we've become, I don't know how you fight it, anyway. They've embraced the hate, the strongmen, and they don't care what it means to democracy. No concern that Russia is going to fiddle our elections, again, which I find one of the most appalling things.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

@Moxie , have you ever been to Cuba?

 

[Moxie]

@Moxie , have you ever been to Cuba?

No, but I would love to go. Have you? I do know a lot of people who've been, so I understand the complications.