US Politics Thread

[the AntiPusher]

But Kasich really isn't on the right at all. There is a reason the New York Times endorsed him to be the Republican nominee. They basically saw him as a Democrat with an R next to his name.

Kasich would probably be a decent economic president. He has managed Ohio's economy well. But other than that he is basically a male version of Hillary Clinton.

Good analysis. I know you wouldn't agree but JK is more qualified than #45..

Speaking of#45..any thoughts of him using the drone to blow the Iranian top General to shit..

Nice ploy to divert attention from impeachment and to ambushed him on Iraq soil.

 

[calitennis127]

Wow, this post is a few hours old and already it has aged well...

Speaking of Trump...please tell us more about his amazing foreign policy in light of recent developments. I'm honestly fascinated by the positive spin you'll attempt to put on this.

Well, let's see.....the Trump administration was able to greatly reduce the influence and control of ISIS in Syria and to do so without throwing a huge number of troops into the area. Trump personally also twice tried to withdraw U.S. forces from Syria (December 2018 and October 2019), but got shouted down by the Democrats you align with and the Republican neocon types you claim to dislike (i.e. those who made a mess of Iraq in the first place).

In fact, out of the last three administrations (Bush and Obama), Trump has had by far the most peaceful and competent approach to the Middle East. Unlike Bush, Trump has not wrecked a country, and unlike Obama, Trump has not recklessly toppled any dictators (Qaddafi, Arab Spring, etc.), wrecked a country (Libya), or incompetently fomented, allowed, and encouraged terrorism-related problems all over the region. Have any ISIS-like groups gone on a rampage through Iraq and Syria like they did under Obama?

Also, while I am a non-interventionist on principle, the fact is the United States has been the world's leading power for decades and has intervened in the Middle East repeatedly. It also has a large troop presence in the region. With that being the case, it is impractical to just say "leave and get out." There are precautions and responsibilities involved. Obama withdrew carelessly and the result was the ISIS death cult running roughshod over vast swaths of territory. Then Obama proceeded to violate international law and bomb Syria's sovereign territory thousands of times to save face and make it seem like he had control over the situation. So should U.S. leaders just withdraw with zero regard for the mess that prior U.S. leaders made? I don't think so. That's like trashing someone's house and not even bothering to throw away a paper plate on your way out. Granted, that type of hygiene is what predominates now in San Francisco and LA, two cities governed by people who think like Moxie, but you get my point.

I am not buying the argument that any strike against Iranian proxies or officials is automatically going to start a war. People talk about this issue like it is completely one-sided and all that factors into it are U.S. considerations. Do the mullahs really want war with the U.S.? I don't think so. Whatever else happens, they would not survive an all-out war, even if they put up a fight and did serious damage to the U.S. through terrorism in the Middle East and abroad. Iran has calculations to make here as well.

Finally, if you are going to criticize Trump for the decision to take out Soleimani, why were you not praising him for his restraint in June when he did not retaliate to Iran shooting down a U.S. drone, despite being encouraged to do so by many in Washington DC? You were totally silent about that. Why did you not mention it at the time?

Did Trump's decision in June not show prudence?

Headline from Politico:

Trump says he pulled back Iran strike because of potential death toll

The president said the strike would not have been 'proportionate' to Iran's attack on an unmanned drone.

Trump says he pulled back Iran strike because of potential death toll

The president said the strike would not have been "proportionate" to Iran's attack on an unmanned drone.

www.politico.com

 

[calitennis127]

Good analysis. I know you wouldn't agree but JK is more qualified than #45..

Speaking of#45..any thoughts of him using the drone to blow the Iranian top General to shit..

Nice ploy to divert attention from impeachment and to ambushed him on Iraq soil.

Look.....people are totally one-sided in this situation. For someone like Moxie or Federberg, anything Trump does is bad by definition. When Obama violated international law and took out Bin Laden, that was awesome. But when Trump takes out an Iranian general who is one of the main culprits in causing mischief all over the Middle East, supposedly civilization is going to collapse tomorrow and 3 million people are going to die in a land war.

Everyone needs to calm the f down.

Also, even if you don't like Trump, you can acknowledge that Soleimani was a complete turd and a problem. If he was in fact behind the attack on the U.S. embassy and he has been behind terrorist actions all over Iraq (against Sunni Muslims and U.S. forces), he may have gotten what he deserved. Just because the U.S. was misguided in its Iraq policy in the past does not mean everything Iranian forces or generals do is holy and pure.

A lot of this noise is just partisan rage that Trump got out of the Iran deal.....

Democrats regard Obama as a divine figure and they give him credit for having far more intellect than he does. They wanted to have the Iran deal as something to demonstrate his supposedly ingenious humanitarianism and they're furious that it's no longer in place. So anything Trump does with respect to Iran they will condemn. It's really just sour grapes. It's the same thing with Russia.....Putin treated Obama with contempt and embarrassed him over Ukraine, and Democrats could not forgive him for it either. Anyone who disrespects the god Obama is forever an enemy.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Look.....people are totally one-sided in this situation. For someone like Moxie or Federberg, anything Trump does is bad by definition. When Obama violated international law and took out Bin Laden, that was awesome. But when Trump takes out an Iranian general who is one of the main culprits in causing mischief all over the Middle East, supposedly civilization is going to collapse tomorrow and 3 million people are going to die in a land war.

Everyone needs to calm the f down.

Also, even if you don't like Trump, you can acknowledge that Soleimani was a complete turd and a problem. If he was in fact behind the attack on the U.S. embassy and he has been behind terrorist actions all over Iraq (against Sunni Muslims and U.S. forces), he may have gotten what he deserved. Just because the U.S. was misguided in its Iraq policy in the past does not mean everything Iranian forces or generals do is holy and pure.

A lot of this noise is just partisan rage that Trump got out of the Iran deal.....

Democrats regard Obama as a divine figure and they give him credit for having far more intellect than he does. They wanted to have the Iran deal as something to demonstrate his supposedly ingenious humanitarianism and they're furious that it's no longer in place. So anything Trump does with respect to Iran they will condemn. It's really just sour grapes. It's the same thing with Russia.....Putin treated Obama with contempt and embarrassed him over Ukraine, and Democrats could not forgive him for it either. Anyone who disrespects the god Obama is forever an enemy.

Brotha..You know I am in the majority in regards to having the upmost respect and admiration for #44..

Cali..you must have been born with a silver spoon..I came from an mid to upper middle class background and now that I have worked my way to the Mitt Romney's so called 2 percent..I can't see why you support Trump..he only cares about billionaires because he isn't a true Billionaire but he covets them like porn stars that he CAN'T physically handle.. You are too smart to be a Trump supporter. I get that you are a Republican..Nothing wrong with that. However .I could see someone like BS. Who is just a pure cespool of having all the attributes of being an asshole..

 

[Federberg]

Brotha..You know I am in the majority in regards to having the upmost respect and admiration for #44..

Cali..you must have been born with a silver spoon..I came from an mid to upper middle class background and now that I have worked my way to the Mitt Romney's so called 2 percent..I can't see why you support Trump..he only cares about billionaires because he isn't a true Billionaire but he covets them like porn stars that he CAN'T physically handle.. You are too smart to be a Trump supporter. I get that you are a Republican..Nothing wrong with that. However .I could see someone like BS. Who is just a pure cespool of having all the attributes of being an asshole..

you lost me when you said Cali was intelligent...

 

[Federberg]

I think this Iran thing is a horrifically bad mistake. In Trump's simple mind he thinks this is the same as killing al Baghdadi. What he's done is created a precedent for nation states to assassinate senior state leaders in other countries. It won't end well. The US can claim that he was managing terrorist organisations and therefore indirectly responsible for thousands of deaths. But some could argue the same about the US intelligence services. If I was a senior member of the Trump administration I would be very nervous tonight

 

[the AntiPusher]

you lost me when you said Cali was intelligent...

I think he is.. just like a young Jedi without proper guidance and a good mentor..his judgement and vision is clouded. It’s up to people like ourselves to teach him the ways of the Force and bring him back from the dark side.::sw1::

 

[the AntiPusher]

I think this Iran thing is a horrifically bad mistake. In Trump's simple mind he thinks this is the same as killing al Baghdadi. What he's done is created a precedent for nation states to assassinate senior state leaders in other countries. It won't end well. The US can claim that he was managing terrorist organisations and therefore indirectly responsible for thousands of deaths. But some could argue the same about the US intelligence services. If I was a senior member of the Trump administration I would be very nervous tonight

It’s really a mixture of both. Trump saw an opportunity to get a good KILL against someone who is a world renowned terrorist. There have been plenty of opportunities previously to kill that General but he had a fantastic alibi because the general was up to mischievous activity In Bagda. Trump has added to his pre impeachment trial resume.

 

[Federberg]

^This is a state actor, we might see him as a terrorist but he is a state actor. Nothing good comes of this. The world and US are less safe today

 

[the AntiPusher]

^This is a state actor, we might see him as a terrorist but he is a state actor. Nothing good comes of this. The world and US are less safe today

Agreed. The world is less safe..Trump went rogue, he only consulted with White House and Senate reps..no Dems..it's totally against the laws of the US laws as for acts of war like strike such as he did..

 

[calitennis127]

I think this Iran thing is a horrifically bad mistake. In Trump's simple mind he thinks this is the same as killing al Baghdadi. What he's done is created a precedent for nation states to assassinate senior state leaders in other countries.

Lol.....no he didn't you fucking moron. Soleimani was not just some regular "senior state leader" of another country. He was a war criminal who had been responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in various countries. He wasn't, say, some British pussy visiting Brussels for a weekend to talk about gay rights with a journalist from the BBC.

Did Obama authorizing the hit on Bin Laden in Pakistan initiate a spree of extra-judicial killings across the world against suspected terrorists? No. This precedent argument is preposterous.

The US can claim that he was managing terrorist organisations and therefore indirectly responsible for thousands of deaths. But some could argue the same about the US intelligence services.

Yeah, which is why it matters that the U.S. government has thousands of nuclear weapons at its disposal while Iran is trying to get its first. Military power has its significance.

If I was a senior member of the Trump administration I would be very nervous tonight

Yeah, absolutely. They should be scared out of their minds by the Iranian Air Force and Navy and its nuclear arsenal of 0 weapons. Iran is just 10 minutes from wiping the U.S. off the map. They are that powerful.

You really know your stuff, Federberg. You really do. It's very impressive.

 

[calitennis127]

Here is Jonathan Turley shredding the second article of impeachment. The "obstruction of Congress" argument is total hogwash:

 

[brokenshoelace]

Lol.....no he didn't you fucking moron. Soleimani was not just some regular "senior state leader" of another country. He was a war criminal who had been responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in various countries. He wasn't, say, some British pussy visiting Brussels for a weekend to talk about gay rights with a journalist from the BBC.

You're literally describing every US president since the turn of the 20th century. Americans and their lack of self-awareness in that regard will never not be amusing. No country has been consistently guilty of an imperial genocidal ideology like the USA.

So please eat shit.

 

[Federberg]

Lol.....no he didn't you fucking moron. Soleimani was not just some regular "senior state leader" of another country. He was a war criminal who had been responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in various countries. He wasn't, say, some British pussy visiting Brussels for a weekend to talk about gay rights with a journalist from the BBC.

Did Obama authorizing the hit on Bin Laden in Pakistan initiate a spree of extra-judicial killings across the world against suspected terrorists? No. This precedent argument is preposterous.



Yeah, which is why it matters that the U.S. government has thousands of nuclear weapons at its disposal while Iran is trying to get its first. Military power has its significance.



Yeah, absolutely. They should be scared out of their minds by the Iranian Air Force and Navy and its nuclear arsenal of 0 weapons. Iran is just 10 minutes from wiping the U.S. off the map. They are that powerful.

You really know your stuff, Federberg. You really do. It's very impressive.

The fact that you compare Bin Laden with Soleimani exposes your ignorance

you talk about US firepower. You do realise that Iran uses asymmetric warfare, it’s utterly irrelevant. For all we know they’ll just expose the pee tape. Keep deluding yourself

 

[calitennis127]

You're literally describing every US president since the turn of the 20th century. Americans and their lack of self-awareness in that regard will never not be amusing.

And Trump is the first president to fundamentally break with the post-WWII consensus of the need for the United States to intervene constantly in every corner of the world, particularly the Middle East. Why do you think that both Democrats and establishment Republicans have consistently condemned his non-interventionist leanings, whether they had to do with NATO or Syria or Iraq? They hate the fact that Trump wanted to break with the recent pattern and avoid interventionist actions.

The guy just got impeached for not sending military aid to Ukraine fast enough and having some policy differences with State Department Democrats. Have you not paid attention to the news?

No country has been consistently guilty of an imperial genocidal ideology like the USA.

BECAUSE OF ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE FOREIGN POLICY ESTABLISHMENT WHO LOATHE TRUMP, IDIOT. Donald Trump did not create the National Security Council or all of the think tanks (neocon Republican and Democrat) that are responsible for the "imperial genocidal ideology" you condemn. Trump has opposed that "ideology" and for that he has been viciously denounced.

In all seriousness, do you even know who the basic players are in American foreign policy? It's pretty clear that you aren't up to speed on that topic.

So please eat shit.

So please read up and get better informed. As usual, your knowledge of the United States is woefully lacking and you demonstrate much less knowledge of it than you think you have.

 

[calitennis127]

The fact that you compare Bin Laden with Soleimani exposes your ignorance

The comparison was about PRECEDENT, idiot. I never said that the two individuals were exactly the same, though they are not entirely different either. Soleimani was not a regular world leader. No one (including leading Democrats) disputes that he was involved in all kinds of nefarious activity in the Middle East. So your narrative that the U.S. just took out a nice world leader somewhere for no reason is beyond ridiculous. This is not going to set off a spree of assassination attempts against regular world leaders like you are saying.

you talk about US firepower. You do realise that Iran uses asymmetric warfare, it’s utterly irrelevant. For all we know they’ll just expose the pee tape. Keep deluding yourself

Lol.....it really is sad that even though you follow the news, you are as badly informed as you are. The "pee tape" was just totally debunked and discredited by the Horowitz report, yet you apparently don't know about that and are still holding out hope that somehow it is verified. And you even think Iran can be the country to do that noble task. Wow.

And the point about Iran is not that it can't do damage to U.S. targets around the world. Of course it can. The point is about whether your remark that U.S. leaders should be scared at night made any sense.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Cali, you fucking moron, did my post mention Trump once? Or are you so hellbent on shoving his dick inside your throat that you manage to bring him up when I'm talking about how every fucking American president since the turn of the 20th century is a genocidal war lord but Americans are too lacking in self-awareness to notice it?

When Americans talk about terrorism and death of innocents, do they realize their country has caused more of that (in areas in which the US should have nothing to do with) than any other country in modern history? When people like Moxie champion Barrack fucking Obama, do they bother to think for a second about the poor Middle Eastern kids that were left fatherless, the wives that were widowed, the kids that were orphaned, the parents that lost their children because of him? Or is the murder of innocents second rate if you're charismatic and charming?

That American presidents are psychopathic murderers has become so normalized that it no longer factors in in the way in which they're assessed, and that is fucking ludicrous.

EVERYTHING Suleimani is accused of, the US has done far worse. That's a fact. And that is the hypocrisy of the United States of America.

 

[mrzz]

do they bother to think for a second about the poor Middle Eastern kids that were left fatherless, the wives that were widowed, the kids that were orphaned, the parents that lost their children because of him? Or is the murder of innocents second rate if you're charismatic and charming?

That American presidents are psychopathic murderers has become so normalized that it no longer factors in in the way in which they're assessed, and that is fucking ludicrous.

EVERYTHING Suleimani is accused of, the US has done far worse. That's a fact. And that is the hypocrisy of the United States of America.

Just perfect.

 

[freedomsmom]

Look.....people are totally one-sided in this situation. For someone like Moxie or Federberg, anything Trump does is bad by definition. When Obama violated international law and took out Bin Laden, that was awesome. But when Trump takes out an Iranian general who is one of the main culprits in causing mischief all over the Middle East, supposedly civilization is going to collapse tomorrow and 3 million people are going to die in a land war.

Everyone needs to calm the f down.

Also, even if you don't like Trump, you can acknowledge that Soleimani was a complete turd and a problem. If he was in fact behind the attack on the U.S. embassy and he has been behind terrorist actions all over Iraq (against Sunni Muslims and U.S. forces), he may have gotten what he deserved. Just because the U.S. was misguided in its Iraq policy in the past does not mean everything Iranian forces or generals do is holy and pure.

A lot of this noise is just partisan rage that Trump got out of the Iran deal.....

Democrats regard Obama as a divine figure and they give him credit for having far more intellect than he does. They wanted to have the Iran deal as something to demonstrate his supposedly ingenious humanitarianism and they're furious that it's no longer in place. So anything Trump does with respect to Iran they will condemn. It's really just sour grapes. It's the same thing with Russia.....Putin treated Obama with contempt and embarrassed him over Ukraine, and Democrats could not forgive him for it either. Anyone who disrespects the god Obama is forever an enemy.

President Obama's accomplished life is rooted in reality.To his own detriment, Putin, openly called President Obama a ni****. Nobody goes away wondering is Putin a racist. White supremacist are proud of their own ignorance.

 

[mrzz]

President Obama's accomplished life is rooted in reality.To his own detriment, Putin, openly called President Obama a ni****. Nobody goes away wondering is Putin a racist. White supremacist are proud of their own ignorance.

I searched for that and could not find anything remotely close to reliable showing that Putin used the n word regarding B. Obama (or anyone else for that matter), let alone publicly. I only found some twitter messages stating that Trump said so. This is completely un-Putin -- say what you want about the guy, the last thing he is is stupid.

I would appreciate if you could provide some evidence of that, but right now I bet it is just an urban legend.

By the way, welcome to the boards.