US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

Tulsi Gabbard keeps impressing me. Once again she showed to be light years ahead of the other politicians, in more than one sense. If there was a TG clone here I could consider voting again...

What is it that impresses you?

 

[mrzz]

What is it that impresses you?

The last thing was her "present" vote, and her quick, and very good, explanation of it.

You have a country which is deeply divided (and I know how that feels), a lot of people complaining about it (but without doing nothing practical about it), and then someone comes up and does something that is explicitly "independent", and that explicitly calls out against extremes in both sides. What happens? Obviously people on her party call her a "traitor" (as you can see in the quoted tweet above). Well, this is what tribes do: chant the tribal chants.

She is by far the US politician with more guts that I have seen.

 

[Federberg]

It’s not clear to me at all that impeachment helps Trump. This narrative from the pundit class about it, and the bluff from the GOP will be put to the test. Something happened this week is probably far more important. The Appeals Court ruling that deals a near fatal blow to Obama Care will probably put the nail in Trumps coffin. Dems have won governorships in Louisiana and Kentucky because of healthcare with Trump front and centre campaigning for the GOP candidates in 2019. Folks are getting it twisted it took a last minute intervention from Comey to enable Trump to get over the line. This time, as long as some crazy progressive doesn’t mess everything up, Trump isn’t going to be helped by anti HRC sentiment. And this impeachment makes it tougher for the cheater in chief to solicit foreign help. It’s going to be interesting

 

[calitennis127]

Abuse of power, obstructing Congress. Making a mockery of and endangering the USA's democratic institutions: the election process, the free press, and an impartial judicial system to take power, control the narrative, and not be punished for his crimes. So now he should pay the price.

What a load of bullshit, "Mac".....talk about being brainwashed by every lie of the Democratic Party and the despicable mainstream media (both of whom got everything with the Russia stry).

I'll just address the first one for now.

"Abuse of power" - this is an absolutely ludicrous charge. This is based entirely on the accusation that Trump did the kind of shakedown to Ukraine that Hillary did to Kazakhstan to get the ball rolling with Uranium One. The only problem is that Ukraine's president (Zelensky), Ukraine's foreign minister (Prystaiko), and a top adviser to the presient (Yermak) all deny that Trump did this. They also had no idea that the military aid was being withheld at the time of the July 25 call, so a quid pro quo was absolutely impossible.

There was no "crime" here.

As usual, the Democratic electorate is too stupid to follow a rational argument or even a simple timeline.

 

[calitennis127]

What is it that impresses you?

That she takes a stand again U.S. foreign policy interventionism, something which you no longer do because you were a disingenuous hypocrite when you condemned Bush for the war in Iraq. You simply did not like that Bush was a Republican and therefore not a member of the Democratic Party church which you are a devoted and very pious member of.

You were not principled when condemning the war in Iraq like Tulsi Gabbard has been in her condemnations of U.S. intervention in the Middle East.

 

[the AntiPusher]

They went for bogus process crimes pertaining to the Mueller investigation, not crimes having to do with the original charge of conspiracy with Russia. The Mueller investigation did not find crimes; it created them.

Flynn was framed by the FBI - it's plain as day.

Roger Stone is going to prison for the most petty charge of lying to the FBI, a "lie" that was far more inconsequential than the lie John Brennan told Congress about the Intelligence Community Assessment at the end of 2016 not relying on the dossier.

Why is Stone being prosecuted and going to prison for lying to federal authorities but not Brennan?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

Flynn was framed by the FBI? Why would a Republican influenced FBI frame Flynn who was working for Trump prior to the beginning of his Presidency. Explain please

 

[calitennis127]

Flynn was framed by the FBI? Why would a Republican influenced FBI frame Flynn who was working for Trump prior to the beginning of his Presidency. Explain please

Dude, you clearly haven't been following the news headlines much at all. I know you're not a stupid person, so the only excuse here is lack of knowledge of the story. It is common knowledge - reported by the Washington Examiner and others - that the Flynn interview was a set-up by McCabe and Strzok (both of whom have been fired). They lulled Flynn into thinking that they were just having a regular conversation about national security and told him not to have an attorney present.

Also, the interview happened in mid-January 2017, right around the time that Trump was inaugurated. So Trump had no influence yet on the FBI, and, in fact, even to this day he does not have much. The DOJ and FBI are still populated by anti-Trump holdovers. That is plain as day. So calling it a "Republican-influenced FBI" is preposterous. Chris Wray (the new FBI director) does not at all appear to be aligned to Trump.

Third, and most important, what Flynn did on his call with Kislyak was nothing irregular for an incoming national security adviser. They all have talks with foreign officials during that time. Michael Flynn is not the first to have done that.

But here is the actual story on Flynn, from the Washington Examiner:

"The interview was set up directly via a phone call to Flynn from Andrew McCabe, who then was deputy director of the FBI. McCabe, by his own account, made it sound like an ordinary national-security-related briefing of the sort Flynn was accustomed to giving the FBI. Even though McCabe clearly knew that Flynn was a potential subject of investigation, he deliberately dissuaded Flynn from having attorneys present."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/fbis-entrapment-of-general-flynn-was-despicable

 

[calitennis127]

And this impeachment makes it tougher for the cheater in chief to solicit foreign help.

The Mueller report did not provide a sliver of evidence that it was the Russian government that gave Wikileaks the emails, even after all the hype and big promises for 2.5 years.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Dude, you clearly haven't been following the news headlines much at all. I know you're not a stupid person, so the only excuse here is lack of knowledge of the story. It is common knowledge - reported by the Washington Examiner and others - that the Flynn interview was a set-up by McCabe and Strzok (both of whom have been fired). They lulled Flynn into thinking that they were just having a regular conversation about national security and told him not to have an attorney present.

Also, the interview happened in mid-January 2017, right around the time that Trump was inaugurated. So Trump had no influence yet on the FBI, and, in fact, even to this day he does not have much. The DOJ and FBI are still populated by anti-Trump holdovers. That is plain as day. So calling it a "Republican-influenced FBI" is preposterous. Chris Wray (the new FBI director) does not at all appear to be aligned to Trump.

Third, and most important, what Flynn did on his call with Kislyak was nothing irregular for an incoming national security adviser. They all have talks with foreign officials during that time. Michael Flynn is not the first to have done that.

But here is the actual story on Flynn, from the Washington Examiner:

"The interview was set up directly via a phone call to Flynn from Andrew McCabe, who then was deputy director of the FBI. McCabe, by his own account, made it sound like an ordinary national-security-related briefing of the sort Flynn was accustomed to giving the FBI. Even though McCabe clearly knew that Flynn was a potential subject of investigation, he deliberately dissuaded Flynn from having attorneys present."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/fbis-entrapment-of-general-flynn-was-despicable

No .. thanks for the disclaimer "I know you not stupid'.

I really haven't been following Flynn as closely as you have. Maybe I missed it on CNN or MSNBC..It this is something that was covered in depth on Fox news than I would not have seen it..


Interesting.. I didn't know the history of the relationship between (FBi) McCabe and Flynn.

I find it very hard to believe Flynn would talk to the FBI with proper legal counseling

 

[Federberg]

No .. thanks for the disclaimer "I know you not stupid'.

I really haven't been following Flynn as closely as you have. Maybe I missed it on CNN or MSNBC..It this is something that was covered in depth on Fox news than I would not have seen it..


Interesting.. I didn't know the history of the relationship between (FBi) McCabe and Flynn.

I find it very hard to believe Flynn would talk to the FBI with proper legal counseling

He’s talking horse shit. He was not tricked. This is a 3 star who ran a government agency. He lied to the FBI, he knew the law. He wasn’t some ignorant dummy like Cali’s orange buffoon

 

[Federberg]

The Mueller report did not provide a sliver of evidence that it was the Russian government that gave Wikileaks the emails, even after all the hype and big promises for 2.5 years.

Mate you blurt out more crap than the back end of a wildebeest on the savannah. What does the Mueller report necessarily have to do with my statement. He’s just been impeached for his malfeasance, how dense do you have to be not to get that.

And in case you take my non response to your comment about the Mueller report means I agree with you, then disabuse yourself of that assumption

 

[the AntiPusher]

He’s talking horse shit. He was not tricked. This is a 3 star who ran a government agency. He lied to the FBI, he knew the law. He wasn’t some ignorant dummy like Cali’s orange buffoon

Thanks Federberg. I thought the "tricked " excuse sounds like an extreme right wing or Fox viewer gaslighting effort.

 

[brokenshoelace]

lol @ Anti Pusher not being stupid.

 

[calitennis127]

He’s talking horse shit. He was not tricked. This is a 3 star who ran a government agency. He lied to the FBI, he knew the law. He wasn’t some ignorant dummy like Cali’s orange buffoon

Lol.....did you read the Washington Examiner piece you stupid tool? No one - including apologists for McCabe - has denied its veracity. The conversation with Flynn was NOT presented as an investigative meeting beforehand. Flynn was explicitly told by McCabe not to have an attorney present.

On top of that, this charge of "lying to federal authorities" is the weakest of all charges in the midst of a federal investigation. It is the last resort for investigators when they can't prove what they're really after.

Also, the way the "lying to the FBI" charge was presented for Flynn was completely disingenuous and stupid, meant to dupe gullible fools like Federturd. Flynn was the incoming national security adviser and it was perfectly legitimate for him to have a conversation with Kislyak in December of 2016. The media tried to make it sound like it was conspiratorial for an incoming national security adviser to talk to a Russian diplomat but that is beyond ridiculous.

A national security adviser is going to have conversations with foreign leaders.

 

[Moxie]

Lol.....did you read the Washington Examiner piece you stupid tool? No one - including apologists for McCabe - has denied its veracity. The conversation with Flynn was NOT presented as an investigative meeting beforehand. Flynn was explicitly told by McCabe not to have an attorney present.

On top of that, this charge of "lying to federal authorities" is the weakest of all charges in the midst of a federal investigation. It is the last resort for investigators when they can't prove what they're really after.

Also, the way the "lying to the FBI" charge was presented for Flynn was completely disingenuous and stupid, meant to dupe gullible fools like Federturd. Flynn was the incoming national security adviser and it was perfectly legitimate for him to have a conversation with Kislyak in December of 2016. The media tried to make it sound like it was conspiratorial for an incoming national security adviser to talk to a Russian diplomat but that is beyond ridiculous.

A national security adviser is going to have conversations with foreign leaders.

I did read the link you cited. I'm not clear as to what part of "lying to the FBI" you don't understand. It's a common tactic of the FBI to lull people they're interested in to a comfortable position. Regular Joe's fall for it, but Flynn knew what he was doing. If he was "dissuaded from having attorneys present," as your link states, then he should have seen the red flag. Either way, he shouldn't have lied to the FBI.

I don't know how you felt about the Clinton impeachment, but it was a very similar case of "entrapment," if you like. You state above: "On top of that, this charge of "lying to federal authorities" is the weakest of all charges in the midst of a federal investigation. It is the last resort for investigators when they can't prove what they're really after." The Starr Investigation went after Whitewater and a myriad of other things, but what they ended up getting him on was lying under oath about an affair.

If Mueller said that Flynn cooperated, eventually, and that's grounds for leniency, I can understand that. But lying to the FBI was stupid.

 

[Moxie]

lol @ Anti Pusher not being stupid.

You just gave Carol a hard time for wishing someone a crappy Christmas, and yet you make your only post in days just to call A-P stupid. Happy Holidays.

 

[brokenshoelace]

You just gave Carol a hard time for wishing someone a crappy Christmas, and yet you make your only post in days just to call A-P stupid. Happy Holidays.

Wishing someone ill is not the same as calling someone stupid. That I have to explain this to you is ridiculous but not exactly surprising. AP is a legitimate idiot. Reading his posts is enough to determine that. Play the peace police elsewhere.

 

[Moxie]

Wishing someone ill is not the same as calling someone stupid. That I have to explain this to you is ridiculous but not exactly surprising. AP is a legitimate idiot. Reading his posts is enough to determine that. Play the peace police elsewhere.

Wishing someone ill may not be exactly the same as calling them stupid, but it's similarly poor-willed, and unbidden. And on top of it, you basically call me stupid for not recognizing the difference. If I want to have at you for being an arrogant prig, I will. If you think you get to be the "stupidity police," then I get to be the "peace police." Each to her/his own high-handedness.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Wishing someone ill may not be exactly the same as calling them stupid, but it's similarly poor-willed, and unbidden. And on top of it, you basically call me stupid for not recognizing the difference. If I want to have at you for being an arrogant prig, I will. If you think you get to be the "stupidity police," then I get to be the "peace police." Each to her/his own high-handedness.

Wishing someone ill is in NO WAY similarly poor-willed as calling someone stupid, are you fucking kidding me? One is, at best, mean spirited and perhaps unnecessarily blunt and insulting (albeit absolutely true in this case), the other reveals an inner shitty human being. Imagine actually hoping someone spends crappy holidays because they insulted your favorite tennis player who doesn't give a shit about you.

I might be an arrogant prick but I am absolutely correct in this case and your inability to see the difference verges on the idiotic, yes. Although knowing you, it's not lack of intelligence that's at play, but rather, your ham-fisted need for authority and corrective measures.

 

[Moxie]

Wishing someone ill is in NO WAY similarly poor-willed as calling someone stupid, are you fucking kidding me? One is, at best, mean spirited and perhaps unnecessarily blunt and insulting (albeit absolutely true in this case), the other reveals an inner shitty human being. Imagine actually hoping someone spends crappy holidays because they insulted your favorite tennis player who doesn't give a shit about you.

I might be an arrogant prick but I am absolutely correct in this case and your inability to see the difference verges on the idiotic, yes. Although knowing you, it's not lack of intelligence that's at play, but rather, your ham-fisted need for authority and corrective measures.

What you missed in my original response to you was the point that you came on during the holidays merely to post that someone else was stupid, you old Grinch. You can call me ham-fisted, but not when you fail to recognize that subtlety in the intent. As to need for authority and corrective measures...no. This is the internet. You called AP stupid. I called you a dick. Standard forum childishness. We just used more words. Happy New Year.