US Politics Thread

calitennis127

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This takes into account only one portion of our electorate. Nothing changes with impeachment. Trump's numbers remain as they have been. Those who support him remain loyal. Those who have are against remain vehemently committed to electing anyone over him next year. It'll come down to turnout and electoral college again, I suppose, if it doesn't get fiddled with.

Not everyone is that solidly on the right or the left.....Trump won many areas that Obama did and the Democrats won them back in 2016. And I don't see how impeachment is helping with those people.

Yes, you're right, the audience for Stephen Colbert and Seth Meyers was 100% for impeachment before Schiff's Ukraine plot started and they are 100% for it now. But there are some moderates, particularly in swing states, and according to Axios, Trump's poll numbers are going up in those states thanks to impeachment. And that is where 2020 will be won or lost.

From Axios:

Poll: Impeachment is helping Trump in 3 key battleground states

Dec 9, 2019


"Quarterly polling by the Republican firm Firehouse Strategies, with Optimus, had President Trump struggling in the mega-battlegrounds of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin — but in the newest edition, he beats every Democrat.

The big picture: Trump won by an average of six percentage points in hypothetical match-ups against all current Democratic candidates, including Joe Biden, who was performing well in head-to-head contests against Trump in polling conducted earlier in the year.

  • The poll found that a majority of likely 2020 voters surveyed do not support impeaching and removing Trump from office."

https://www.axios.com/trump-impeach...sin-6776a580-9a0f-4362-a8a7-e6180f18ed14.html
 

britbox

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This takes into account only one portion of our electorate. Nothing changes with impeachment. Trump's numbers remain as they have been. Those who support him remain loyal. Those who have are against remain vehemently committed to electing anyone over him next year. It'll come down to turnout and electoral college again, I suppose, if it doesn't get fiddled with.

It does, but you know what the narrative will be going in - Trump will go in with a lot of noise about two major conspiracies (Russia and Ukraine) that have prevented him doing his job properly and that he's been cleared of both. Whether you think he's guilty (which I'm sure you do personally) will be largely irrelevant. He will have that narrative and the momentum... and he's a very good campaigner.
 

Moxie

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It does, but you know what the narrative will be going in - Trump will go in with a lot of noise about two major conspiracies (Russia and Ukraine) that have prevented him doing his job properly and that he's been cleared of both. Whether you think he's guilty (which I'm sure you do personally) will be largely irrelevant. He will have that narrative and the momentum... and he's a very good campaigner.
Again, you don't take into account that the separate factions are entrenched. It doesn't matter that he can still tell his bedtime story to his true-believers. Not everyone is sold on those stories, by a lot. There is some middle ground in the US, (dare I say the Silent Majority? Well, Silent Middle-Ground anyway,) and some people are appalled at his behavior, and see the danger in selling off our elections. And no, he's not a good campaigner. He's good at whipping a rally of true believers into a frenzy. Not the same.
 
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britbox

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Again, you don't take into account that the separate factions are entrenched. It doesn't matter that he can still tell his bedtime story to his true-believers. Not everyone is sold on those stories, by a lot. There is some middle ground in the US, (dare I say the Silent Majority? Well, Silent Middle-Ground anyway,) and some people are appalled at his behavior, and see the danger in selling off our elections. And no, he's not a good campaigner. He's good at whipping a rally of true believers into a frenzy. Not the same.

I do take the factions into account. No not everybody is sold on his stories, but equally not everybody is sold on the torrent of anti-Trump stories either. At some point it just becomes noise.

I'm sorry Moxie - he is a good campaigner. You might not like his methods any more than his message but they are effective. He was considered a joke Republican candidate originally and saw off 18 competing rivals for GOP nomination and then beat Clinton against the odds. He was specific in what and where he targetted to maximise his vote in marginal swing areas (all of which he won).

Anyway, I'll dive out of this for now. I've had my current fill of political discussions with people in the recent UK election. People who swore blind that Boris was an idiot and Labour were going to win. That didn't end well for them. Their own little echo chambers weren't representative.
 
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Moxie

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I do take the factions into account. No not everybody is sold on his stories, but equally not everybody is sold on the torrent of anti-Trump stories either. At some point it just becomes noise.

I'm sorry Moxie - he is a good campaigner. You might not like his methods any more than his message but they are effective. He was considered a joke Republican candidate originally and saw off 18 competing rivals for GOP nomination and then beat Clinton against the odds. He was specific in what and where he targetted to maximise his vote in marginal swing areas (all of which he won).

Anyway, I'll dive out of this for now. I've had my current fill of political discussions with people in the recent UK election. People who swore blind that Boris was an idiot and Labour were going to win. That didn't end well for them. Their own little echo chambers weren't representative.
I'd be perfectly happy for you to swear off telling us what you think about US politics from your perch.
 

britbox

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I'd be perfectly happy for you to swear off telling us what you think about US politics from your perch.
No problem - but you won't be lonely - my old mate Federberg will still be here on the same perch. He's much more "on message" so I don't think perches will even cross your mind. Echo 1,2,3; Echo 1,2,3... See you later.
 

brokenshoelace

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I chuckle at the wishful thinking. Newsflash, Trump is getting re-elected and it won't be a particularly uphill battle.
 

calitennis127

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A Not everyone is sold on those stories, by a lot. There is some middle ground in the US, (dare I say the Silent Majority? Well, Silent Middle-Ground anyway,) and some people are appalled at his behavior, and see the danger in selling off our elections.

What in the f--- are you talking about? Seriously?

Selling off our elections?

This is the kind of absurdity in the Democratic electorate that is almost incomprehensible. YOU JUST VOTED FOR AND SUPPORTED A CANDIDATE IN 2016 WHO FUNNELED MONEY TO A BRITISH INTELLIGENCE AGENT WHO RELIED ON A RUSSIAN SOURCE FOR THE DOSSIER, which the IG report just demonstrated to be a total joke. That is the epitome of "selling off our elections" - it is hiring a foreign intelligence agent relying on foreign sources to smear a political opponent.

Not only that, but the completely anti-Trump POLITICO reported on January 11, 2017 on exactly what Trump brought up in the call with Biden - namely, Ukrainian election interference. Who wrote the story? Two authors, one of whom was Kenneth Vogel. And Vogel does not work for Fox News. He is now with the New York Times. Here it is:

Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

So Moxie, was Trump "selling off our elections" by repeating information from a 2017 Politico report written by a journalist who now works for the New York Times?

Better yet, the ringleader of this impeachment is Adam Schiff. And here is that bungling, dishonest buffoon on the phone with Russian pranksters asking for dirt on Trump:



Are you going to complain about Schiff "selling off our elections"?

And no, he's not a good campaigner. He's good at whipping a rally of true believers into a frenzy. Not the same.

True believers in what? Economic pragmatism? Trump is hardly anything more than an economic pragmatist who makes the most basic, common-sense arguments against the left while making the economy fly. That's all he is doing. He is not promoting irrational, fact-free theories about politics and humanity like the Democrats are.

The Democrats are the party of "true believers" in absurd and twisted ideas, not Trump when he talks about such rudimentary concepts as better trade deals, reduced regulations, higher employment rates, the stock market going up, and controlling the border.

Perhaps that's why American unemployment is at its lowest level in over 50 years.
 
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calitennis127

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I chuckle at the wishful thinking. Newsflash, Trump is getting re-elected and it won't be a particularly uphill battle.


Yeah, exactly. If only there were more shitheads who actually believed the always-wrong Adam Schiff, that unfortunate outcome would not occur. Schiff really hit it out of the park with his 2018 memo, didn't he?

What an awesome job he did with it. He was right on point. But I'm sorry for making a reference to something you are probably hearing about for the first time. Go read Schiff's pitiful 2018 memo and compare it to the recent IG report - if you really want to be a big-boy scholar. Go and do it. Get informed. You'll be better off for it.
 

calitennis127

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Well, it's official. The IG report from Horowitz - who was originally appointed by Obama - definitively shows that the entire Russia collusion narrative, based largely on the FBI investigation, was a farce. Trump was perhaps too gentle and too kind when he called the media "fake news" during the investigation. That understates the reality.

Horowitz found a total of SEVENTEEN, yes 17, errors and omissions in the FISA application process. This directly contradicts James Comey's repeated claims that the process was followed appropriately, which of course the anti-Trump media swallowed up and promoted as indisputable truth.

Devin Nunes also deserves a great deal of credit for his much-vilified February 2018 memo, which was proven entirely correct by the IG report. Schiff came out with his own memo to rebut Nunes at that time and it was pure nonsense, as he himself was forced to admit.

And, yes, the late-night Fox anchors who are vilified by mind-numbingly stupid pseudo-intellectuals in the U.S. and abroad were absolutely vindicated by the IG report.

Chris Wallace is one of the Fox personalities who cannot stand Trump and wants to see him impeached, but even he had to lay into Comey in this interview on Sunday. Comey has been totally discredited:

 

calitennis127

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Do you still feel it’s a coexistence or it just is happenstance that almost everyone surrounded by Trump is in jail or soon will be convicted including Rudy G.

They went for bogus process crimes pertaining to the Mueller investigation, not crimes having to do with the original charge of conspiracy with Russia. The Mueller investigation did not find crimes; it created them.

Flynn was framed by the FBI - it's plain as day.

Roger Stone is going to prison for the most petty charge of lying to the FBI, a "lie" that was far more inconsequential than the lie John Brennan told Congress about the Intelligence Community Assessment at the end of 2016 not relying on the dossier.

Why is Stone being prosecuted and going to prison for lying to federal authorities but not Brennan?

I think we all know the answer to that one.
 

calitennis127

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Two other quick pieces of info, particularly for those on the board in countries other than the USA who are misinformed by the likes of the BBC, which just repeats the nonsense of the New York Times and Washington Post.....

1) The whistleblower who started all this is Richard Ciaramella. And this is Ciaramella's profile: registered Democrat, worked for Obama and CIA Director John Brennan, worked with Joe Biden, vocal critic of Trump, and helped initiate the Russian collusion hoax.

2) Ciaramella's lawyer is a guy named Mark Zaid. These are some of his past tweets: “Coup has started” – Jan 2017; “Impeachment will follow” – Jan 2017; “I predict @CNN will play a key role…” – July 2017; “We will get rid of him” – July 2017

These pieces of information, among others, show that this impeachment is nothing more than a partisan hit job.

Ciaramella and Zaid (along with Schiff and Nadler) are just trying to get Trump out of office so the Democrats have total control over DC. That's all that this is about.
 

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Federberg

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I’m starting to wonder if HRC was on to something. Tulsi Gabbard voted ‘present’ in the impeachment vote. How does this make sense for someone contesting Democratic primaries? What am I missing?
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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lol..nancy and the gang maybe are not going to send over the articles of imp to the other side until the repubs agree to a fair trial with witnesses.

seeing as mitch and lindsay have already said they will vote to clear the prez of the scam fake news swamp media era witchhunt hoax impeachment outrage already..

some fun and games could be in store as the damaclesian drawing pin is held over trumps groovy litttle head. and repubs not getting the quick wrap up they all want.

they say pelosi is always a few moves ahead on the chess board..lets see.
 
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mac

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Abuse of power, obstructing Congress. Making a mockery of and endangering the USA's democratic institutions: the election process, the free press, and an impartial judicial system to take power, control the narrative, and not be punished for his crimes. So now he should pay the price.

TrImp.jpg
 
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mrzz

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Tulsi Gabbard keeps impressing me. Once again she showed to be light years ahead of the other politicians, in more than one sense. If there was a TG clone here I could consider voting again...
 
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