US Politics Thread

[Federberg]

Roger Stone found guilty. How many more of this President's close associates will go to jail before his base wises up?

 

[tented]

Roger Stone found guilty. How many more of this President's close associates will go to jail before his base wises up?

My brother-in-law — an evangelical Christian — told me a few months ago, with a completely straight face, “Trump is the United States’ gift from the Lord.”

So, to answer your question ....

 

[Federberg]

My brother-in-law — an evangelical Christian — told me a few months ago, with a completely straight face, “Trump is the United States’ gift from the Lord.”

So, to answer your question ....

I'm not sure if the world has ever seen a mass cult indoctrination like we're seeing now. It's a truly stunning time in history

 

[tented]

I'm not sure if the world has ever seen a mass cult indoctrination like we're seeing now. It's a truly stunning time in history

Indeed. I wish I had a time machine to go back to Germany in the 30s-40s in order to study the similarities.

 

[Federberg]

Indeed. I wish I had a time machine to go back to Germany in the 30s-40s in order to study the similarities.

lol! I did think about that but thought it was too inflammatory a comparison. Certainly by sheer population size, this cult is bigger if not as pernicious

 

[tented]

 

[calitennis127]

Short answer is to the first question is no. Beyond the governor's race, the Republicans did better down-ballot in KY, and also that Southerners, in particular, tend to stick with their powerful incumbents. That said, Trump staked part of his reputation on Bevin, who was pretty unpopular, and lost.

You conveniently omitted that the Democratic governor in Kentucky comes from a political dynasty and that Trump helped close the gap for Bevin. But why would I expect you to be ever be balanced in your analysis?

McConnell will survive, but his party, not having right or law on their side in the case for impeachment, or the one for removal, have been trying to make the political case that it's "unimportant" and have been taking it to the people.

Wtf are you talking about? How in the world do the Democrats have the "law" on their side? These hearings have been, by and large, a total embarrassment for them because they have not been able to show any evidence of Trump breaking a law vis-à-vis Ukraine.

In that sense, I think they were dealt a blow. Mitch should feel secure enough, and he's already made his deal with the Devil, but there are other Republican senators who are up for reelection next year, and they might be swayed by the results of yesterday.

Lol.....and, if I may ask, what rational person would ever be swayed to the Democratic case by what has gone on in the hearings thus far?

Trump has shown that he's a cult of one. His influence doesn't protect the party.

Obama is far more of a cult figure than Trump. And that is because there is far more diversity of thought and opinion on the Republican side of the aisle. There are genuine disagreements on the political right whereas on the political left there are hardly any differences at all, except over the details of economic proposals.

Until that doesn't work, and then they'll do what they did to Nixon: tell him he doesn't have the votes and force him to resign.

Nixon never should have been impeached. The idea that he did something uniquely terrible in American history is one of the main lies of American history taught in schools, and, of course, being the saphead that you are, you completely believe in that myth. It also props up the Washington Post as your church.

 

[calitennis127]

Lol! I'm in the same boat as you. I do think however that Pete could turn it around. I actually don't think it's the issue in his home town that's holding him back with black voters. I think it's his sexuality sadly. Older black voters are very socially conservative. If the GOP would do away with racial discrimination and focussed on their other core policies they would probably run the table with both blacks and Latinos truth be told. Dubya was right that the GOP needed to change. Unfortunately for them it'll probably be a generation before the stain of this administration will be forgotten. They've basically californiaed themselves nationwide now..

Let's address your points one by one.

1) Are you aware that Trump did better with both Hispanic and black voters than Romney (a Bush-style Republican) did? From NBC News:

"Trump claimed 29 percent of the Hispanic vote on Tuesday compared to Romney’s 27 percent in 2012. With blacks, exit polls show Trump claimed 8 percent of the vote to the previous Republican nominee’s 6 percent."

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2...blacks-hispanics-romney-12-exit-polls-n681386

2) Since you consider yourself well-informed about American politics (which you're not), are you aware of the study by the African-American lawyer Peter Kirsanow on how illegal immigration disproportionately hurts black Americans? So how the hell would Trump restricting immigration hurt black Americans?

3) How in the world is the GOP racially "discriminating" against anyone? They have constantly been trying to "reach out" to minorities the last 20 years. And I challenge you to state a single policy they have pushed that discriminates against anybody aside from the completely trivial ban on transgender people in the military. But that has nothing at all to do with racial discrimination

4) Black voters care far less about the homosexuality issue than you think. They have knowingly voted for a party that has been pushing the LGBT agenda the last 30 years. Even if older black voters object to homosexuality and even if temperamentally many blacks are inclined to make fun of "gayness," concern about that issue is completely subordinate to their racial animus. The reason they don't like Buttigieg is mainly that he is just lame and boring. He looks like a Pilgrim and a standard white boy. On top of that, blacks in South Bend consider him a standard white racist when it comes to law enforcement issues. If he wasn't "gay," there would be nothing interesting about him.

Buttigieg is a classic affirmative action candidate: if it wasn't for being gay, he would not be where he is. His entire persona is based on selling his identity.

5) You do know that Romney followed the advice of Dubya in 2012 and got crushed, while Trump defied it in 2016 and won?

 

[calitennis127]

I'm not sure if the world has ever seen a mass cult indoctrination like we're seeing now. It's a truly stunning time in history

Indeed....that is exactly how to characterize the left in the United States in terms of how it deifies Obama as well as the Democratic Party. There are far more critics of Trump on the right than there are critics of Obama on the left. That is because there is far more diversity of thought on the right. Also, Republicans don't view their party as a church. Democrats have more zeal for their party than most Muslims in the Middle East do for Islam. Just look at Moxie. The Democratic Party is clearly her church and her moral guide to life.

The Democratic Party is an irrational cult (as are its counterparts in Western Europe). And you are right that it represents very extensive "mass cult indoctrination."

 

[Moxie]

Cali, I have no interest in debating politics with you. I find your opinions to be generally horribly right-wing, but worse, mostly ludicrous and non-fact-based, (as an example, that Buttigieg trades on being gay.) Furthermore, to discuss them would get us nowhere, and on top of it, you generally resort to insult. It's only fun when it's tennis. But, for the record, Nixon was never impeached. He resigned because he knew it was inevitable, and that the Senate had the votes to remove him.

 

[Federberg]

Cali, I have no interest in debating politics with you. I find your opinions to be generally horribly right-wing, but worse, mostly ludicrous and non-fact-based, (as an example, that Buttigieg trades on being gay.) Furthermore, to discuss them would get us nowhere, and on top of it, you generally resort to insult. It's only fun when it's tennis. But, for the record, Nixon was never impeached. He resigned because he knew it was inevitable, and that the Senate had the votes to remove him.

So true! I can't engage with him on politics either. It's useless having a discussion with someone who doesn't even agree the sky is blue!

 

[calitennis127]

Cali, I have no interest in debating politics with you.

Because your views are irrational and you know you have no chance of winning the argument. When pressed for details, you can't provide any or sustain your argument under scrutiny. You find comfort in fashionable clichés.

I find your opinions to be generally horribly right-wing, but worse, mostly ludicrous and non-fact-based, (as an example, that Buttigieg trades on being gay.)

Lol....coming from someone who views Hillary Clinton as a goddess, even after she accuses Jill Stein and Tulsi Gabbard of being Russian agents. Were those factual contentions on Hillary's part? Was it also factual to describe al-Baghdadi as a "solemn religious scholar"?

Yeah, you really care about facts.

Aren't you someone who completely sided with the media during the Russian collusion farce and is also siding with them on this premeditated Ukraine plot where the facts are not at all on their side?

Yeah, you really care about facts.

In the case of Butt-a-geegy, the fundamental fact between Federberg, tentyman, and myself was not in dispute: it was that Buttigieg's poll numbers among black voters were terrible. How we interpreted it was different.

Furthermore, to discuss them would get us nowhere, and on top of it, you generally resort to insult.

As do you, so please don't pretend that you never utter a bad word about anyone.

It's only fun when it's tennis.

But it can be fun with politics too if you only open your mind! Fun fun fun!!!! Yipppeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, for the record, Nixon was never impeached. He resigned because he knew it was inevitable, and that the Senate had the votes to remove him.

Good attention to detail, I'm proud of you for catching that. It shows that you have some potential. It would be nice if you applied the same level of scrutiny to major figures in the Democratic Party and the claims they make (such as Adam Schiff saying he has evidence of Trump collusion with Russia, or that he never met with the whistleblower in the Ukraine plot against Trump).

But, allow me to amend my statement, articles of impeachment never should have been brought against Nixon. The whole Watergate affair was a hypocritical and partisan hit job led by the Washington Post.

 

[calitennis127]

So true! I can't engage with him on politics either. It's useless having a discussion with someone who doesn't even agree the sky is blue!

Nice way of diverting from how you got the facts wrong on the Trump v. Romney numbers with minorities.

 

[Federberg]

Nice way of diverting from how you got the facts wrong on the Trump v. Romney numbers with minorities.

not going to engage, but I do have to ask... did I discuss Trump vs Romney numbers with minorities? I don't think I did, but please let me know. I'm too lazy to look back, it's Friday evening here

 

[calitennis127]

not going to engage, but I do have to ask... did I discuss Trump vs Romney numbers with minorities?

You did by implication. This is the statement from you I was responding to:

"Dubya was right that the GOP needed to change. Unfortunately for them it'll probably be a generation before the stain of this administration will be forgotten. They've basically californiaed themselves nationwide now.."

McCain and Romney took that advice in 2008 and 2012. They were the "Dubya" candidate you are talking about. And they lost. Trump defied that line of thinking in 2016 and won. He took the Rust Belt states back for the Republicans.

 

[calitennis127]

Since some people on here like reading the political headwinds, this is noteworthy. Not sure how true it is but it's interesting nonetheless:

Support flips against impeachment as Trump approval rating jumps: Poll

"The Emerson poll released Thursday found support for impeachment has dropped from 48% to 43% since October, while opposition to impeachment has risen from 44% to 45%.

Independents are key in the shift, with 49% opposing impeachment and only 34% supporting impeachment. In October, 48% of independents supported impeachment and 39% opposed.

The poll also showed Trump's approval rating rising to a net positive. Forty-eight percent approved of the president while 47% disapproved. His approval rating was only 43% a month ago."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...roval-rating-jumps-poll/ar-BBXab1N?ocid=ientp

 

[calitennis127]

As Federberg would say, "you have to laugh....."

Exclusive: Former FBI lawyer under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/21/politics/fbi-fisa-russia-investigation/index.html

Looks like CNN and Moxie will have to acknowledge this story because it comes from a respected source (lol), even though each of them hates Trump. CNN is not partisan, you know?

It looks like yet another "right-wing conspiracy theory" turned out to be true! Funny how right-wing conspiracy theories so often turn out being facts, isn't it?

 

[Federberg]

You did by implication. This is the statement from you I was responding to:

"Dubya was right that the GOP needed to change. Unfortunately for them it'll probably be a generation before the stain of this administration will be forgotten. They've basically californiaed themselves nationwide now.."

McCain and Romney took that advice in 2008 and 2012. They were the "Dubya" candidate you are talking about. And they lost. Trump defied that line of thinking in 2016 and won. He took the Rust Belt states back for the Republicans.

ah... so basically I didn't say that...

 

[Federberg]

As Federberg would say, "you have to laugh....."

Exclusive: Former FBI lawyer under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/21/politics/fbi-fisa-russia-investigation/index.html

Looks like CNN and Moxie will have to acknowledge this story because it comes from a respected source (lol), even though each of them hates Trump. CNN is not partisan, you know?

It looks like yet another "right-wing conspiracy theory" turned out to be true! Funny how right-wing conspiracy theories so often turn out being facts, isn't it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...2f51de-0d48-11ea-97ac-a7ccc8dd1ebc_story.html

 

[Moxie]

Cali, of course I am capable of insult: I insulted you in the post above. But you say things like "Hillary is a goddess" to me, and that the democratic party is my "church." WT absolute F? You put words in people's mouths, presume to be in their heads, and none of these things are constructive to rational debate. You also go away for days, working on your ripostes, then come back and spew all over the thread. With drivel. And insult. It's not interesting.