UK Politics Thread

[teddytennisfan]

That's how I feel. They call us Corbyn supporters Trots but this is Stalin reborn!

they are displaying that they only had disdain for ordinary people.
in so many ways -- it is just like the way in the USA -- THE -so-=called ''left" - ''democrats" -- 'labor" - 'unions"

very good at talking about ''justice and fairness" but when it comes down to the real agenda which is just being the ''left side of the same corporate power" --

the party operatives literally give ''marching orders" -- and literally give commands on what CAN AND CAN NOT be said. iknow - because i was once a union guy...

 

[Mary]

So true!

 

[teddytennisfan]

So true!

the way they'd do it is like this:

1) to get people to join and make the union enter the workplace...they'd tell people lots of things nice...and money-wise

"we'll get 6 percent raise"..
you vote for it..union enters work place..
2) negotiations time for the raise comes;;;they'll. say - without explanation: "make sure tell everyone to stand up for it - we'll demand - and try to get 5 percent raise".

you begin to wonder - ask why? ''it's gonna be too difficult to get 6 percent -- we'll have to start with something do-able and then push for 6 later".

more negotiations "we'll make sure they GIVE us that 4 percent!! make sure you sign the demand"!!
you sign

negotiations again :"they'll DEFINITELY be FORCED to give us 3 percent so make sure you all attend the negotiations"

each time there is no real explanation - just that ''it's like this -- 3 percent, ok? DON'T settle for LESS!!"...

YOU get the 'raise" - union gets 2 percent - you get 1 percent...

in exchange for ''administration of workplace has the right to expect compliance with their right to set policies under the law -- so everyone has to punch in and out exactly on the minute or else you lose 15 minutes of pay" (as the demand of the workplace) and ''those that need to be in uniform -- you can't change clothes DURING company time -- better do it before coming to work".

meaning?

3 percent for more work -- 2 percent for union - 1 worthless even LOSING percent --

equals it was already FIXED between union and workplace long ago.

THAT'S how the american system works. you are now TWICE enslaved by BOTH the workplace AND the union working hand in hand

in the name of 'fairness and justice for labor".
AND you're actually 3 percent POORER.AND THAT'S just for starters..i know it intimately.

isn't american capitalism GREAT? !!!

 

[Mary]

the way they'd do it is like this:

1) to get people to join and make the union enter the workplace...they'd tell people lots of things nice...and money-wise

"we'll get 6 percent raise"..
you vote for it..union enters work place..
2) negotiations time for the raise comes;;;they'll. say - without explanation: "make sure tell everyone to stand up for it - we'll demand - and try to get 5 percent raise".

you begin to wonder - ask why? ''it's gonna be too difficult to get 6 percent -- we'll have to start with something do-able and then push for 6 later".

more negotiations "we'll make sure they GIVE us that 4 percent!! make sure you sign the demand"!!
you sign

negotiations again :"they'll DEFINITELY be FORCED to give us 3 percent so make sure you all attend the negotiations"

each time there is no real explanation - just that ''it's like this -- 3 percent, ok? DON'T settle for LESS!!"...

YOU get the 'raise" - union gets 2 percent - you get 1 percent...

in exchange for ''administration of workplace has the right to expect compliance with their right to set policies under the law -- so everyone has to punch in and out exactly on the minute or else you lose 15 minutes of pay" (as the demand of the workplace) and ''those that need to be in uniform -- you can't change clothes DURING company time -- better do it before coming to work".

meaning?

3 percent for more work -- 2 percent for union - 1 worthless even LOSING percent --

equals it was already FIXED between union and workplace long ago.

THAT'S how the american system works. you are now TWICE enslaved by BOTH the workplace AND the union working hand in hand

in the name of 'fairness and justice for labor".
AND you're actually 3 percent POORER.AND THAT'S just for starters..i know it intimately.

isn't american capitalism GREAT? !!!

 

[Mary]

Here there is something a bit similar with our public services. They reorganise them to make savings then the following year reorganise again to make more savings. When the service just doesn't work they let the private sector run it and give them public money grants to do so! Staff either have to leave or accept new contracts with the private company - always much worse terms, reduced pay, longer hours, no sick pay, paid holiday halved. Examples are NHS cleaning and catering. Results, growth in multi resistant infections, inedible food. Saw all this up close when I worked in the National Health Service.

 

[Federberg]

^I hear you Mary, it's not a good look. My problem with a lot of government work is based on my observations of government spending patterns. What you find is that throughout the year there's a noticeable economic impact due to how the government spends money. You'll often see departments rush to spend money before a fiscal year ends. This is money they've been quite prudent with, but as they near the fiscal yearend and realise they have a surplus, they rush to spend it because if they don't the Treasury will say that if they can get by without the surplus then the new allocation will be based on what they actually spent. Both parties are guilty of this (or perhaps the blame should be directed at the civil service). What it tells me, is that there are real efficiencies that exist, but because of departments trying to maintain their spending allocations this all gets squandered. Just once I would like to see a government department say, hey look, it turns out we didn't need quite as much money after all. That money can then go to another department that actually needs it. I work my tail off every year to achieve. And to be told that my taxes need to be high because there's a real need to fund essential services, and yet I can see this rush to run surplus's down? I find it hard to trust politicians of any colour telling me that there is a real justification for extorting more taxes from me. Personally I believe that if a government is taking anymore than about 35% of my income from me it's borderline theft. New Labour really lost a lot of votes when they tried to justify raising taxes on higher incomes to the 45 - 50% level. It's just not right. I can understand the public not liking those who've inherited their money very much, but to be told that all the hard work you put in to achieve success and the government should get half your money? No way never ever ever! If public servants were putting in as much work as I was then fine, but unfortunately that's generally not the case. Heck I remember once back in my investment banking days working out of the Tokyo office and still being in the office after my colleagues in London were going home. Now that's proper work!

 

[Mary]

^I hear you Mary, it's not a good look. My problem with a lot of government work is based on my observations of government spending patterns. What you find is that throughout the year there's a noticeable economic impact due to how the government spends money. You'll often see departments rush to spend money before a fiscal year ends. This is money they've been quite prudent with, but as they near the fiscal yearend and realise they have a surplus, they rush to spend it because if they don't the Treasury will say that if they can get by without the surplus then the new allocation will be based on what they actually spent. Both parties are guilty of this (or perhaps the blame should be directed at the civil service). What it tells me, is that there are real efficiencies that exist, but because of departments trying to maintain their spending allocations this all gets squandered. Just once I would like to see a government department say, hey look, it turns out we didn't need quite as much money after all. That money can then go to another department that actually needs it. I work my tail off every year to achieve. And to be told that my taxes need to be high because there's a real need to fund essential services, and yet I can see this rush to run surplus's down? I find it hard to trust politicians of any colour telling me that there is a real justification for extorting more taxes from me. Personally I believe that if a government is taking anymore than about 35% of my income from me it's borderline theft. New Labour really lost a lot of votes when they tried to justify raising taxes on higher incomes to the 45 - 50% level. It's just not right. I can understand the public not liking those who've inherited their money very much, but to be told that all the hard work you put in to achieve success and the government should get half your money? No way never ever ever! If public servants were putting in as much work as I was then fine, but unfortunately that's generally not the case. Heck I remember once back in my investment banking days working out of the Tokyo office and still being in the office after my colleagues in London were going home. Now that's proper work!

I recognise that scenario all too well. I was a budget holder in both NHS and Local Government and we were always told never to underspend. And budgets were almost always historically based rather than looking at the coming years service objectives and zerobasing say every three years. Here is another example. NHS Trusts were told to raise money - eg from car parking, selling coffee and sandwiches etc, having newsagents in the hospital. This generated some useful income. But the next year that income was taken into granted and the allocation of funds reduced by that much plus anticipated inflation. So to stay at same level had to raise more or cut services.

I agree with you about higher rate tax. High earners pay more anyway. But when I see people like Branson getting NHS and transport subsidy, providing appalling service and paying no tax my socialism goes into overdrive!

Up date on Labour party - today the purge goes on with so far 700 more members chucked out. And we have seen the logo of a new party calling itself Labour Tomorrow funded by old pals Murdoch, Blunket and Mandy! So looks like the split is on the way pretty soon.

 

[teddytennisfan]

Here there is something a bit similar with our public services. They reorganise them to make savings then the following year reorganise again to make more savings. When the service just doesn't work they let the private sector run it and give them public money grants to do so! Staff either have to leave or accept new contracts with the private company - always much worse terms, reduced pay, longer hours, no sick pay, paid holiday halved. Examples are NHS cleaning and catering. Results, growth in multi resistant infections, inedible food. Saw all this up close when I worked in the National Health Service.

EXACTLY.

it'/s clever little game...incremental..chipping away at something -- so people get USED to it..the gradual pilfering of public monies - whiel at the same time saying "we are saving YOUR money"

and then gradually starving the public system of ITS own funds and then saying "you SEE? YOU SEE? PUBLIC management doesn't work -- ONLY private management is efficient"

and then they use the public funds ''under privae management?" which THEN CHARGES through the roof - and more justification of "not enough funds" -- so 'services must be cut or PAY MORE for services" -- etc. etc.etc.

it's a CLEVER little way of ''privatizing" public funds.

same in the USA - STARVE public schools of funds - then when the quality falls "//you SEE? so much mismanagement -- let's PRIVATIZE, bring in the INVESTORS" -- who then demand more ''cuts and efficiency" while pocketing the PROFITS.

clever, clever little capitalist system, eh? the MIRACLE is how people LAP it all up while THEY are being ROBBED BLIND! by the privatizers --

who in the USA call themselves - ideologically -- as ''libertarians" or ''followers of HAYEK vienna school of economics" /or in the USA ''chicago school of thought" ...
lol.

 

[britbox]

Here there is something a bit similar with our public services. They reorganise them to make savings then the following year reorganise again to make more savings. When the service just doesn't work they let the private sector run it and give them public money grants to do so! Staff either have to leave or accept new contracts with the private company - always much worse terms, reduced pay, longer hours, no sick pay, paid holiday halved. Examples are NHS cleaning and catering. Results, growth in multi resistant infections, inedible food. Saw all this up close when I worked in the National Health Service.

Yeah, plenty of false economies.

Certain things should be off limits to privatisation and the benchmark should be duty of care/service levels as opposed to cost.

NHS being one, but also I think all energy provision should be nationalised and the national transport infrastructure. Essential services should not be in the private sector.

 

[teddytennisfan]

Yeah, plenty of false economies.

Certain things should be off limits to privatisation and the benchmark should be duty of care/service levels as opposed to cost.

NHS being one, but also I think all energy provision should be nationalised and the national transport infrastructure. Essential services should not be in the private sector.

I DON'T know what each three of your UK politics are -- but do you know that your positions - would be considered "far left" in the USA?

you'd be called "those damned socialists"!! lol.

THAT'S how ''IMPURE" YOU'D be to the american capitalist person.

 

[teddytennisfan]

WHAT BLAIR, CAMERON, MAY and"MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE " couldn't do -- secure a meeting with PUTIN.

the BOYS OF ETON could...

lol.

==================================

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NICE SKILLS: UK Schoolboys Beat British Govt to Private Meeting with Putin
The Eton pupils beat Theresa May and Boris Johnson to a meeting with the Russian president, who reportedly spent two hours with them

Shaun Walker
(The Guardian)
5 hours ago | 932 4
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Putin shakes hands with one of the Eton boys
Originally appeared at The Guardian
Ministers wait hours for an audience with Vladimir Putin, CEOs sit nervously for months hoping for a summons to see him, and even Donald Trump was stood upduring a 2013 visit to Moscow and told Putin was too busy to see him.

There was no such problem for a group of 11 Eton schoolboys, however, who flew to Moscow and were met by the Russian president in the Kremlin last week, stopping to take a group photo inside the seat of Russian power with their best “massive banter” poses.

The Eton boys in the Kremlin
Putin, who is notoriously difficult to access and is frequently hours late to meetings with other world leaders, apparently devoted two hours of his time to discuss world affairs with the Eton boys, proving that attending the elite boarding school is useful for opening doors not only in Britain.

The schoolboys have beaten both the prime minister, Theresa May, and Eton alumnus Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, to a meeting with Putin. May is expected to meet the Russian president on the sidelines of the G20 summit in China next week.

David Wei, one of those present at the meeting, wrote on Facebook: “It took me a total of 10 months, 1,040 emails, 1,000 text messages, countless sleepless nights, constant paranoia during A2 exam season, declining academic performance … but here we are. Guys, we truly gave Putin a deep impression of us and he responded by showing us his human face.”


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The boys from Eton meet Vladimir Putin


A Facebook post from a US scholarship programme identified one of those on the trip as Trenton Bricken, of Duke University’s class of 2020. According to the post, Bricken “took a quick break from his Duke orientation this week to be part of a delegation from his high school to visit Russia. This visit was hosted by the Russian government and included a two-hour private meeting with President Vladimir Putin!”

Bricken himself wrote on Facebook that Putin was “small in person but not in presence”.

In a statement, Eton college said: “This was a private visit by a small group of boys organised entirely at their own initiative and independently of the college.” The Kremlin released no information about the meeting, while the Foreign Office declined to comment.

Quite how the meeting came about remains a mystery. It is possible that one of the Eton boys or one of the intermediaries involved in setting it up was the son of one of Putin’s inner circle, who despite loud displays of patriotism are fond of schooling their children abroad. The meeting was apparently facilitated by Father Tikhon Shevkunov, rumoured to be Putin’s personal priest, who reportedly gave a talk at Eton earlier this year.

Putin and the schoolboys

A video posted on the Kremlin’s English-language channel, Russia Today, included an interview with some of the students in a Moscow restaurant, though it did not allude to the meeting with Putin. The channel’s correspondent played a word association game with them, asking them what words came into their head to describe “Trump” and “Russian-British relations”. When the word was “Putin” the channel asked a girl sitting at the table, who said “leader”. It was unclear who the girl was; she was not present in the photographs of the meeting with Putin, and could not have gone to Eton, an all-boys school.



• • •

 

[teddytennisfan]

BRITBOX.. MARY, FEDERBERG ...please check out the RT video showing the ETON kids in a restaurant in moscow - being asked on their views by the RT staff...

tell us what you think...
i'm really fascinated.

ithink it goes faster streaming if opened in youtube channel of RT. because RT website itself is always under ''dos" attack from certain ''actors' that want it banned, lol, namely your own BBC and USA msm. everyone knows that.

 

[britbox]

I DON'T know what each three of your UK politics are -- but do you know that your positions - would be considered "far left" in the USA?

you'd be called "those damned socialists"!! lol.

THAT'S how ''IMPURE" YOU'D be to the american capitalist person.

I'm not far left by any stretch T... right of centre generally on domestic stuff but a government still needs to have a social conscience.

 

[teddytennisfan]

I'm not far left by any stretch T... right of centre generally on domestic stuff but a government still needs to have a social conscience.

that's exactly what i meant. i know you're not left AT ALL. lol. tha'ts easy to see.

but that's why i said it -- and you just confirmed it by saying ...''social conscience " ...

social conscience in the USA -- even by so-called liberals or the fake ''left" are all for SHOW - IT ALL comes right back down to MONEY. ND NO social conscience -- just ''my party's interest" which is - once more -- just power and money wrapped in ''liberation" .

but essentially - YOU'D ALL be considered 'FAR LEFT, " .

how do i know -? by watching JUST your conversations = the 3 of you. and comparing that with how people here actually behave like .

 

[teddytennisfan]

i hope you don't mind Britbox -- i just made a little push for the website in Russia Today - trying to get folks to come here. hehe.

 

[teddytennisfan]

sputniknews.com
Putin Signaled Willingness to Revive Ties With UK at Meeting With May – Kremlin
Sputnik
Politics
19:05 04.09.2016(updated 19:07 04.09.2016) Get short URL

HANGZHOU (Sputnik) — Putin and May held a one-on-one meeting early Sunday on the sidelines of the G20 leaders' summit in Hangzhou, China.

"Putin send a clear signal that we [Russian officials] are interested in mending our relations, we want to renew dialogue across all spheres, including most sensitive ones, and are ready to go as far as the British side is willing to," Dmitry Peskov told reporters.

© Sputnik/ Alexei Druzhinin

The British government is open for talks with Russia on mutually important issues, he added.

"The British side reaffirmed that it was ready to negotiate issues that are of interest to both [nations]."

"Aviation security was raised as a possible area of cooperation which is of interest to both countries," Peskov said, adding that, "on the whole, Britain has yet to find political will and realize that there is no alternative to resuming a dialogue with our country across a range of topics."

 

[Federberg]

I'm not far left by any stretch T... right of centre generally on domestic stuff but a government still needs to have a social conscience.

I was amused when I saw the comment. Anyone who knows me will quickly realise that my economic views are right of centre, anywhere in the world. On social policies, as with most Europeans we're have views that might be considered more left leaning, but as @britbox says we tend to have more of a social conscience

 

[britbox]

 

[Federberg]

@britbox have you been following the Vaz scandal? Absolutely shocking. I feel for the guy's kids and wife

 

[britbox]

@britbox have you been following the Vaz scandal? Absolutely shocking. I feel for the guy's kids and wife

Not following it as such, but I did read a couple of articles on it. I can't say I ever liked the bloke much... but you're right - must be horrendous for his family to have that unloaded on them via the media. He should quit as an MP IMO.