UK Politics Thread

[britbox]

It won't be the doomsday scenario remainers say - but there will obviously be some economic hit. Some businesses will relocate headquarters to EU countries. Long term, I'm thinking more of a 10-20 year timescale and you'll be better served by a smaller nimble government that can make quicker adjustments to the changing global economy than a massive block that takes a decade to do a single trade deal.

I don't think Brexit will see large scale manufacturing return to the UK - not sure where you got that idea from. Large scale manufacturing in the current globalised world will happen in the east not the west.

 

[Nekro]

It won't be the doomsday scenario remainers say - but there will obviously be some economic hit. Some businesses will relocate headquarters to EU countries. Long term, I'm thinking more of a 10-20 year timescale and you'll be better served by a smaller nimble government that can make quicker adjustments to the changing global economy than a massive block that takes a decade to do a single trade deal.

I don't think Brexit will see large scale manufacturing return to the UK - not sure where you got that idea from. Large scale manufacturing in the current globalised world will happen in the east not the west.

well, i didn't use that expression exactly but lots of people are talking about the factories, we don't have to go far to find those people, here's Equine Ann for example, she kept talking about the factories, and there are many people talking about reopening the factories under Brexit articles....

BTW, Bogus the Rodent talks sense sometimes, like here:

"I think the problem is that many leavers assumed that the EU would negotiate in an economically pragmatic and rational way. That was pretty foolish. The EU is a political project, and maintaining the integrity of that project overrides all other concerns."

Yeah, many of the smarter Brit patriots see more sides of the EU.... ofc even Bogus doesn't see the cultural project side for example.... .

Now the big problem with Bogus the Rodent and with many of the smarter Brits is that when it comes to lying he's champ...... He's like fucking CNN or worse when it comes to Eastern Europe, Russia, the middle east, etc..... He lies into your face stunningly big lies..... and then they're surprised that so many of the Brits voted to leave....

So don't lie Bogus the Rodent because the lies hit back and you're gonna fuck up the clueless ones so much in the head they won't know what to do when there's a referendum....

Yeah, and stop the zionist propaganda, that alienates the mainland europeans, mainland europe is christian and will stay that way, if you go zionism-mongering you alienate europe and they won't reach out to Britain when you have a referendum...........

Yeah, so more Christian stuff, less lies, more snuggles to Europe... That's the way to go.....

If you're a good rodent i'll buy you a tailtip replacement surgery in the nicest Swiss clinique...

 

[Federberg]

When you're the single largest economic bloc in the world the pace at which you do trade deals is not that significant an issue mate

 

[mrzz]

Work and live with English, Welsh and Scots on a daily basis - the difference between the peoples is minimal... most of us speak the same language, use the same services, roads, measurement systems, work in the same companies, share the same sporting interests and have far more recent shared history than divided history. Far more.

You all suck in football too

 

[Federberg]

You all suck in football too

I assume you're talking about the UK? Can't possibly be the EU as that would include Germany! Right?

 

[britbox]

well, i didn't use that expression exactly but lots of people are talking about the factories, we don't have to go far to find those people, here's Equine Ann for example, she kept talking about the factories, and there are many people talking about reopening the factories under Brexit articles....

BTW, Bogus the Rodent talks sense sometimes, like here:

"I think the problem is that many leavers assumed that the EU would negotiate in an economically pragmatic and rational way. That was pretty foolish. The EU is a political project, and maintaining the integrity of that project overrides all other concerns."

Yeah, many of the smarter Brit patriots see more sides of the EU.... ofc even Bogus doesn't see the cultural project side for example.... .

Now the big problem with Bogus the Rodent and with many of the smarter Brits is that when it comes to lying he's champ...... He's like fucking CNN or worse when it comes to Eastern Europe, Russia, the middle east, etc..... He lies into your face stunningly big lies..... and then they're surprised that so many of the Brits voted to leave....

So don't lie Bogus the Rodent because the lies hit back and you're gonna fuck up the clueless ones so much in the head they won't know what to do when there's a referendum....

Yeah, and stop the zionist propaganda, that alienates the mainland europeans, mainland europe is christian and will stay that way, if you go zionism-mongering you alienate europe and they won't reach out to Britain when you have a referendum...........

Yeah, so more Christian stuff, less lies, more snuggles to Europe... That's the way to go.....

If you're a good rodent i'll buy you a tailtip replacement surgery in the nicest Swiss clinique...

Large scale manufacturing isn't returning to the UK anytime soon. I've said from the beginning about these Brexit negotiations that not a whole lot will get done until the final hour. It's not in the EU interest to give the UK an easy ride out. Things will get done at the final hour after pressure from German and French exporters... that's if the UK keep their bottle... because there is an awful lot of political pressure domestically to see "progress"... a lack of it could potentially bring down the government. I haven't actually ruled out a second referendum either.

I didn't even vote in the referendum, even though I could have... but obviously would have voted Brexit with Sovereignty being the underlying factor. You're making a very sweeping statement that Brexiteers hate Europeans... we are Europeans at the end of the day... you need to differentiate between a political block (The EU) and Europe. The EU has a can to carry on why Brexit happened in the first place... a little flexibility and less arrogance would have gone a long way to this never happening in the first place.

 

[britbox]

When you're the single largest economic bloc in the world the pace at which you do trade deals is not that significant an issue mate

True but it illustrates the sluggish, bureaucratic monolith that the EU is.

 

[Federberg]

not really relevant mate. As long as the EU has it's internal market it can afford to be sluggish. It's the smaller guys who have to worry about speed. That's actually one of the biggest selling points for the EU. For me the negative case against the EU is about open borders and national autonomy, when you steer into macro-economics it's a loser. The question is... if you want to leave are you willing to pay the economic consequences? Are you willing to lose global significance because you're a single actor rather than a community?

PS, and this has always been my biggest concern about the EU,you can argue that the mismatch of economic unity vs political (read fiscal) disunity could one day make the euro untenable. That I can fully endorse

 

[britbox]

I agree with most of what you are saying re: national autonomy and open borders... that alone is enough to swing it for me - and I've always acknowledged there will be a financial hit. I think where we differ is that you don't think it's a price worth paying and I do.

But, I also don't think the EU can afford to be sluggish - or complacent. The world is a much smaller place with the advent of Globalisation.

Also, I'm interested in your definition of "Global Significance".

 

[Federberg]

I agree with most of what you are saying re: national autonomy and open borders... that alone is enough to swing it for me - and I've always acknowledged there will be a financial hit. I think where we differ is that you don't think it's a price worth paying and I do.
Yup that seems to be the core of our difference

But, I also don't think the EU can afford to be sluggish - or complacent. The world is a much smaller place with the advent of Globalisation.
The thing with trade agreements is that the smaller economy tends to feel more incentivised to get it done quickly. Which is why in a lot of cases the smaller country will accede to the wishes of the larger one. They might suffer in terms of some industries more than they should, but having access to larger markets is ultimately going to pay off. So in most cases, the ones the press doesn't talk about the EU is getting countries to comply with their rules and regulations.

Also, I'm interested in your definition of "Global Significance".
How other countries treat the UK will change markedly once Brexit happens. The UK is a mid-sized economy in terms of potential. The only things that make it unique once it's out on its own are it's nuclear arsenal, permanent UN seat and tremendous amount of soft power (culture etc). None of these things will prove particularly persuasive in the bigger scheme of things, particularly if Trump's doctrine succeeds and we move back to a pre-World War 1 world of great power politics. I fear Britain will find itself in a place it hasn't been in for over half a millenia. Utterly dependent on the whims of true global powers to try to get its interests heard. We've already sort of seen this type of world with the current Trump-May relationship. It's not going to get better. All we have to hope for is that the likes of the US sincerely share our values and interests in this type of world. When you bring the word "hope" into it, then the phrase "global significance" isn't a fit anymore

 

[britbox]

I think you're misunderstanding me on trade agreements. I don't agree with doing a trade agreement for the sake of doing them, but outside of that I do agree with doing beneficial deals... the UK can't do any unilateral deals even it makes sense in the current structure. What's good for the EU isn't necessarily good for the UK and vice versa.

Re: Global Significance... you highlighted correctly where the UK will always have Global Significance and soft power... but outside of that... what's the need? The UK lost the ability to act unilaterally on a global scale with regard to the military after Suez, it gave up the Empire (necessarily) after WW2, the pound was superseded by the dollar... In a nutshell, the UK hasn't had the hard Global Significance you mention since the end of WW2. I'm kind of wondering what is actually being lost? It was lost already.

Now the EU has more significance, but that isn't the UK and you have a bunch of other barking dogs in the room... it's not really any sort of significance other than safety in numbers... and the EU project is doomed to fail IMO, given time.

 

[Federberg]

I think you're misunderstanding me on trade agreements. I don't agree with doing a trade agreement for the sake of doing them, but outside of that I do agree with doing beneficial deals... the UK can't do any unilateral deals even it makes sense in the current structure. What's good for the EU isn't necessarily good for the UK and vice versa.

Re: Global Significance... you highlighted correctly where the UK will always have Global Significance and soft power... but outside of that... what's the need? The UK lost the ability to act unilaterally on a global scale with regard to the military after Suez, it gave up the Empire (necessarily) after WW2, the pound was superseded by the dollar... In a nutshell, the UK hasn't had the hard Global Significance you mention since the end of WW2. I'm kind of wondering what is actually being lost? It was lost already.

Now the EU has more significance, but that isn't the UK and you have a bunch of other barking dogs in the room... it's not really any sort of significance other than safety in numbers... and the EU project is doomed to fail IMO, given time.

As you know I'm a sceptic on the long term survival of the EU, although it's entirely possible that Trump has increased it's chances of surviving ironically. With regards to the UK's global significance I would argue that after a long period of irrelevance, the EU was actually helping to reverse the trend until Brexit. Like it or not, as long as the EU exists it is going to be hugely relevant given it's sheer size. With Brexit, the trend will actually accelerate as it's proximity to the EU will have the perverse effect of casting a dark shadow on the UK. But I get that that might not be relevant to some. What really bothers me is that the City of London is likely to suffer a massive negative shock from this, and no doubt property prices in the South East as well (mind you I'm not too bothered about that last one!)

 

[Horsa]

lol the comments section is a goldmine

• 
  
  It's obvious the EU only really cares about the money. <-Our Rainwoman's fav mantra....

Responses:

• It gets so tedious keep reading this same sentence. Can't you lot think of anything else? Preferably something which is fact based and truthful
• 
  
  
  
  Hogwash. You utterly undermine the UK's role in the EU in a despicably unpatriotic way and dismiss the work of thousands of Brits in some of the huge advances European society has made in the past few decades. We weren't respected in the EU just for our money but because of our ability to build solutions out of disagreement. In financial services especially, we were the leaders in Europe.
  
  Now that's all been undone by a bunch of muppets who believe infantile stories published in the Sun and the Mail.

Har har har and the scoldings about the "contradictions" lol Because for muppets who think in panels there are the patriotic brexiters who are against the EU and the libtard globalists who want to stay in the EU....... as if the smartest patriots and the biggest British "nazis" weren't for staying in the EU because that way Britain is stronger..... but for the muppets even something that simple is too out-of-the-box thinking

Lol. It's true. It gets so monotonous to read your extremist crap. If the E.U. didn't just care for the money why do they always want to discuss money 1st? We'll see.

 

[Horsa]

well, by now i've read lots of articles about financial predictions after Brexit and i can get an ok picture...... it probably won't be such a huuuuge blow in the short term as the remainers say, you know there are sectors which will suffer more like the financial sector etc. , there are some which will benefit a bit from Brexit, however, if you look at all the sectors sure Britain will take a hit and imo what makes the doomsayers sad is that the long term prospects are shit.....(as opposed to what you're saying, that in the short term it will be bad but in the long term it will be cool) like what if the EU starts rolling like fuck????? It's hard to predict things there and if that happens Britain gets screwed, it will be left behind and that's what lots of people who want to advance and want really great and competitive Britain are scared of.....

Labour voters blabla, yes, so they rebuild the outdated factories or modernize some and do outdated shit? Will they be competitive with factories and workers in other countries that are already specialized in that kinda stuff? Wouldn't it make more sense to invest in education and retrain those people to do more modern jobs????

That border control is a fucking joke... Are they working on it NOW? Everybody and their grandmothers can get in.... And btw Britain is not even that attractive anymore, even for migrants..... Soon even the exotic bacteria will avoid Britain...

In the short-term we will lose out but not long-term.

 

[Nekro]

Lol. It's true. It gets so monotonous to read your extremist crap. If the E.U. didn't just care for the money why do they always want to discuss money 1st? We'll see.

Extremist? Where was I extremist there? BB was i extremist? Dear Ann, get your head checked.....

 

[Horsa]

Extremist? Where was I extremist there? BB was i extremist? Dear Ann, get your head checked.....

You weren't there but you have been sometimes. I have actually & I came up 5 1/2 years above what I should be so you should try taking your own advice.

 

[Nekro]

You weren't there but you have been sometimes. I have actually & I came up 5 1/2 years above what I should be so you should try taking your own advice.

ok, so let's get things clear....

I write something non-extremist in a post that you quote and you say it gets monotonous reading my extremist crap.......

Then you admit what i wrote in the post wasn't extremist, then why did you put it there? Personal attack or you just want to disrupt the thread?

Then you repeat the idiocy that the EU cares only about the money which was untenable and ridiculous to begin with....

That BB doesn't agree with, that Bogus the Super Rodent doesn't agree with, that basically nobody on this board agrees with.... that I don't agree with...... And i guess you know we've all finished our uni/college...

And then you say i should get my head checked......

So you double personal insult, you even admit you did it baselessly the first case... in the second case you are talking completely out of your ass....

You are repeating an idiocy no one in the thread agrees with, not even the 2 Brits....

But i'm the extremist and i should get my head checked....

Just great......


And great contributions from you in this thread too, congratulations......

 

[Horsa]

ok, so let's get things clear....

I write something non-extremist in a post that you quote and you say it gets monotonous reading my extremist crap.......

Then you admit what i wrote in the post wasn't extremist, then why did you put it there? Personal attack or you just want to disrupt the thread? What you wrote in that post wasn't extremist wasn't but what you wrote in other posts was.

Then you repeat the idiocy that the EU cares only about the money which was untenable and ridiculous to begin with.... It wasn't. You didn't answer my question which was "If the E.U. don't only care about the money why won't they talk about anything else until money is put on the table?" & I've noticed that you never answer questions that you don't want sometimes because you don't want to admit that you could be wrong.

That BB doesn't agree with, that Bogus the Super Rodent doesn't agree with, that basically nobody on this board agrees with.... that I don't agree with...... And i guess you know we've all finished our uni/college... He doesn't agree the reason we're wanting out is all about money because it's not, it's too much red tape too.

And then you say i should get my head checked......

So you double personal insult, you even admit you did it baselessly the first case... in the second case you are talking completely out of your ass.... I didn't & I'm not.

You are repeating an idiocy no one in the thread agrees with, not even the 2 Brits....

But i'm the extremist and i should get my head checked....

Just great......


And great contributions from you in this thread too, congratulations......

 

[Nekro]

^And i stopped sorting out your messed up posts.... You're the only one on the board posting garbage like that..... I explained to you 2 ways to fix that stuff in the most nutter-friendly way but i guess it's easier to post unsubstantiated junk out of your arse than learn to fix your garbage posts......

 

[Horsa]

^And i stopped sorting out your messed up posts.... You're the only one on the board posting garbage like that..... I explained to you 2 ways to fix that stuff in the most nutter-friendly way but i guess it's easier to post unsubstantiated junk out of your arse than learn to fix your garbage posts......

I'm not. I just don't have time to look through all your crap to sift for the posts I'm looking for where you're sharing anti-Brit stuff with I.S. militants & stuff on & I've got better things to do. I don't post garbage. Most of my posts here have historical facts to back them up if you know British history which you're obviously clueless about. You know next to nothing about Britain & British life. You use media to back up your points yet you said the media is lying which 1/2 of it is. Therefore you're inconsistent. Sometimes you change your mind more often than your clothes & you're more contradictory than Charles Dickens's "A tale of 2 cities".