UK Politics Thread

[Federberg]

Against immigrants. It's been in the news here. Claims that abuse and confrontations are on the rise. Nothing too bad thankfully

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...what-it-means-eurospectic-areas-a7165056.html

 

[britbox]

^ Not particularly surprising considering the definiton of "hate crime".

Official definition by the CPS:

A Hate Incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someones prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender.

The concerning part of this definition for me is anyone else and thinks

So in effect, you can be a victim of hate crime even if you regard it as harmless banter if anybody else disagrees.

...and there were a series of campaigns on social media to promote people reporting anything and everything.

 

[Mary]

Good that you highlight the "if anyone else" element. I can understand where this is coming from. Victims are often afraid to state their feelings and are frequently intimidated outnumbered. Secondly something like rascist jokes. I find these totally offensive even when the person on the receiving end does not object or is not even present.

There is certainly a lot more racism about. Queuing for coffee the other day I was behind an Asian guy. The woman behind me pushed him aside and told him he ought to let white people to first as it was their country. And some time ago I once saw a person with a disability told she ought to goto the back of the line as she held everyone up. Imagine living with this every day all your life let alone the more vicious attacks. Neither of these people said anything. I spoke up and so did a couple of others but in many situations people just don't confront the aggressor.

 

[britbox]

^ Would you class either of the incidents as criminal behaviour?

 

[Ricardo]

the asian guy probably has a case as the woman actually 'pushed' him aside. i wonder which city it was, Mary.

 

[Mary]

the asian guy probably has a case as the woman actually 'pushed' him aside. i wonder which city it was, Mary.

St Albans, 30 miles North of London. Not an area where there are immigration issues, one of the wealthiest towns in the UK. It was a definite hard push that sent him staggering into shelves and he could have had a hot drink in his hand. Technically an assault and certainly racial and motivated by hate. And under our law assault doesn't actually have to have physical contact. Verbal abuse can count as assault. I would say this was criminal.
The second incident was nasty , probably not criminal and pre Brexit. People find it hard to believe those with disabilities are subjected to such behaviour which is why I included it. It's hard to say often where exactly behaviour sits on a line between rude, vicious and criminal.

 

[Federberg]

^Wow! That's in my neighbourhood. I'm in Radlett

 

[Mary]

^Wow! That's in my neighbourhood. I'm in Radlett

I live in Redbourn - this was St Albans Waitrose. Nice to have you as a neighbour!

 

[Federberg]

^ditto!
My sister lives in Harpenden, It's a lovely part of England

 

[Ricardo]

St Albans, 30 miles North of London. Not an area where there are immigration issues, one of the wealthiest towns in the UK. It was a definite hard push that sent him staggering into shelves and he could have had a hot drink in his hand. Technically an assault and certainly racial and motivated by hate. And under our law assault doesn't actually have to have physical contact. Verbal abuse can count as assault. I would say this was criminal.
The second incident was nasty , probably not criminal and pre Brexit. People find it hard to believe those with disabilities are subjected to such behaviour which is why I included it. It's hard to say often where exactly behaviour sits on a line between rude, vicious and criminal.

today Warren Buffet quoted "have you no sense of decency, sir?" in his remarks, slamming Donald Trump. I thought, that would apply to both Trump and Clinton....sadly. If i had to compare though, Clinton has definitely done worse things than Trump and does all she can to cover up.

It's a sad state of affairs, in many places.

 

[teddytennisfan]

that's pure bunkum -- the argument that becuse someone ELSE is offended by what one does -- you already automatically committed an ''aggressive act" towards that someone ELSE.

PURE BALONEY. it's the kind of argument that justifies people POKING THEIR NOSES into someone ELSE's affairs because "i did not like the tone of voice" of "that person" .

then ANYONE can 'report" anyone for ''having committed a hate crime" or ''being aggressive or violent'.

it's that western liberal type supersensitivity to everything under the sun that has little to do with other concerns such as racism , discrimination or injustice.

it's mostly abotu ''MY feelings were hurt -- apologize -- oh you HURT my sensitive soul"!!

it includes this overly careful avoidance of ''sexism" that - say -- press release officials are now addressed in the west as ''spokes-PERSON"

as if to say a person one is speaking to who is a woman - to address as a her, or she, is now ''discriminating against other sexes and being sexist".

there was that press conference being held by RUSSIA'S Foreign ministry representative

MARIA ZAKHAROVA...

who -- as she was fielding questions by reporters -- an american reporter insisted to call her

SPOKESPERSON --

at which -- irritated -- she said:

"you can go ahead and address or refer to me as spokes WOMAN -- we are not shy here in russia about saying i am a WOMAN who happens to speak for the ministry".

 

[teddytennisfan]

BRITBOX -- are you catching the news this week -- that EU DICTATORS now

WON'T LET britain EXIT UNTIL UK pays its debt and obligations to EU? what the phy ck are they trying now?

 

[teddytennisfan]

today Warren Buffet quoted "have you no sense of decency, sir?" in his remarks, slamming Donald Trump. I thought, that would apply to both Trump and Clinton....sadly. If i had to compare though, Clinton has definitely done worse things than Trump and does all she can to cover up.

It's a sad state of affairs, in many places.

that/s because BUFFETT *IS* one of those that DID VERY WELL INDEED under CLINTON'S policies. i mean -- THIS is the guy that intoned in the 1990's "

"there HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLASS WAR -- and WE the rich have WON".

 

[teddytennisfan]

today Warren Buffet quoted "have you no sense of decency, sir?" in his remarks, slamming Donald Trump. I thought, that would apply to both Trump and Clinton....sadly. If i had to compare though, Clinton has definitely done worse things than Trump and does all she can to cover up.

It's a sad state of affairs, in many places.

DO YOU KNOW...when i was in ST petersburg, RUSSIA last month...

i just had the TV in my room on all the time i was in -- and little by little got used to the sound of their language and bit by bit got the gist of their shows...

anyway -- it might suprirse some that they have daily ''talk shows" -- real debates -- with two or even 3 panels -- like ''face-offs'' - with groups of people on one side and another --

and in russia they actualoy invite foreigners -- a LOT of them --
germans - british - especially those of the 'neo-con' or 'neo-liberal' bent...

who speak russian also - journalists who hold the usual NATO/EU/AMERICAN lines against russia? and they have the russian counterparts and go into very heated debates.?

you will NEVER see that in the USA. OR UK for that matter where only ONE version counts as ''debate".

 

[Federberg]

Lol! So there is more press freedom in Russia than in the UK and US? Interesting...

 

[teddytennisfan]

Lol! So there is more press freedom in Russia than in the UK and US? Interesting...

LOL. == all you want..there actually is.

do you not know that in russia they have NEO-LIBERAL newspapers and websites

one of the most notorious being the USA funded -- MOSCOW times. complete with american trained editors? do you know of an actual russian newspaper -- in the stands - funded by moscow in LONDON OR NEW YORK?

DO YOU know that a LARGE university in moscow and branches in other russian cities --

called AMERICAN UNIVERSITY TOURO ( a new york based business ''america style" university , one of the biggest here) --

is actually there? is there some russian state university anywhere in UK? or USA?

 

[britbox]

BRITBOX -- are you catching the news this week -- that EU DICTATORS now

WON'T LET britain EXIT UNTIL UK pays its debt and obligations to EU? what the phy ck are they trying now?

No, not seen that but it's not in Britain's interests to stick 2 fingers up at the EU and vice versa. A soft landing and a mutually beneficial relationship for both parties is the way forward. I actually think the EU will fall apart as a project unless it changes the model.. Federalising the block politically isn't the way forward... and puppets like Juncker who believe they really have any importance or power are in for a rude awakening. The EU should be a trading block not a political block.

 

[britbox]

I don't think the North is conservative but then I come from a very left wing North Eastern background with a grandfather who was on the Jarrow March. I agree we need something to change in Scotland though.

Who said we live in interesting times!!

Glad business is holding on ok.Take care, M

I'm actually happy to see a lot of very diverse views coming to the fore... it energizes politics... we've spent the last 20 years in a vaccuum where the choices were pretty similar... from a Labour Blairite type party that was barely centre left to a Tory party that was barely centre right. Blair and Cameron could have swapped places with not many people noticing the difference.

 

[britbox]

New Labour members win right to vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37009871?SThisFB

My vibe is that most of these new members will be going for Corbyn. My sister-in-law is one of them, just joined the Labour Party and a Momentum groupie.

 

[Mary]

I'm actually happy to see a lot of very diverse views coming to the fore... it energizes politics... we've spent the last 20 years in a vaccuum where the choices were pretty similar... from a Labour Blairite type party that was barely centre left to a Tory party that was barely centre right. Blair and Cameron could have swapped places with not many people noticing the difference.

I agree. What ever the politics it's healthier to have different views and debate. And it's excellent to have the public engaged again. Right of new labour members to vote in leadership election was confirmed
by high court today, great victory for membership and could BRI ng in over 130,000 voters.