UK Politics Thread

[britbox]

Not really sure what your point is here mate. The Monster Raving Looney Party have never made any pretentions to become a serious political party

The point being... there is no credible opposition at the moment... and there needs to be one.

 

[Federberg]

The point being... there is no credible opposition at the moment... and there needs to be one.

I agree. But it's the same paradigm we're seeing in other democracies. In the US at the moment one could argue that the credible opposition are the protest movements. All points towards the delegitimisation of the current democratic system. Let's see how it all evolves

 

[Federberg]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39064149

Great win for the Tories and absolutely devastating for Labour. I know @britbox will try to claim this is to do with Brexit. I think this has rather more to do with Corbyn sadly

 

[britbox]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39064149

Great win for the Tories and absolutely devastating for Labour. I know @britbox will try to claim this is to do with Brexit. I think this has rather more to do with Corbyn sadly

Both will have had some impact but agree that Corbyn will have been the bigger factor by some way.

 

[britbox]

Prime Ministers Questions - 8 March

 

[britbox]

Question Time - Sunderland March 10th

 

[Federberg]

Wow! Shooting or bomb on Westminster bridge. Parliament suspended..

 

[britbox]

Wow! Shooting or bomb on Westminster bridge. Parliament suspended..

4 Dead, 20 Injured from latest reports - confirmed terrorist attack.

Seems to be that mowing down innocent pedestrians in a car is the new weapon of choice for this scum.

 

[Nekro]

4 Dead, 20 Injured from latest reports - confirmed terrorist attack.

Seems to be that mowing down innocent pedestrians in a car is the new weapon of choice for this scum.

it also looks like being politically correct about islam doesn't bother these attackers at all. So, the question is, when will the western world stop acting against itself by terrorising its own population by forcing them to be politically correct about islam.

Lol! like London's muslim mayor, Sadiq Khan, he called Trump ignorant about islam. And i saw that on message boards too. On a message board a British person living in america who said that in parts of Detroit the original population moved because the muslims didn't adapt and made the quality of life for the people bad, also she was a Trump voter, was told to read islam for dummies by a muslim poster (a nasty one who kept making up lies about people and the pc admin let him get away with it while threatening the victims of his lies), and then the PC board members trolled her off the board by insults.

How can Trump be ignorant about Islam????? The attackers are committing the murders in the name of Islam. Some say "but there are moderate muslims too." Great, then wouldn't it be the duty of the moderates to fix the radicals??? Aren't they skipping their duty?

 

[britbox]

wouldn't it be the duty of the moderates to fix the radicals??? Aren't they skipping their duty?

This.

Now, most muslims will be law abiding people, but the radicalised ones clearly aren't being flushed out by their own, and even the ones who are openly radical aren't been dealt with properly. Some of the radical clerics openly call for jihad and spout hate against their host nation without consequence and have been doing it for years... Ironically, I can't think of a muslim country on the planet that would tolerate such behaviour if the reverse was true.

 

[DarthFed]

Sorry to hear about it and I agree with @britbox that the Muslim terrorists seem to be moving towards using cars as the weapon of choice. Sadly it doesn't take much training or organized planning to mow down a bunch of people in a crowded area.

 

[Federberg]

I think it's pretty low to start talking about political correctness here. Please exercise some common sense, how do you know that moderate muslims aren't providing human intelligence that's aiding the fight against terrorism in the UK? By it's very nature we would never know about it. Please stop with this nonsense. It's in extremely poor taste. Britain was attacked, and our intelligence services have been quite successful in limiting the frequency of these occurrences no doubt partly because we have muslim communities that make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed in this country

 

[britbox]

I think it's pretty low to start talking about political correctness here. Please exercise some common sense, how do you know that moderate muslims aren't providing human intelligence that's aiding the fight against terrorism in the UK? By it's very nature we would never know about it. Please stop with this nonsense. It's in extremely poor taste. Britain was attacked, and our intelligence services have been quite successful in limiting the frequency of these occurrences no doubt partly because we have muslim communities that make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed in this country

You start by saying that we have no idea on intelligence collection and then sum up by saying there is no doubt muslim communities make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed. That's a contradiction in itself, but on the latter, it's probably safe to say that some intelligence comes from islamic quarters.

It's easy to condemn something after an attack like this, but I would want to see more widespread condemnation of the extremist marches, the extremist dialogue in some of the mosques and the rise of islamic extemism dealt with far more severely. You have to deal with the problem at it's source not later when atrocities are performed... and sadly political correctness, "human rights" and a crap-load of other things are put first.

We are standing by facilitating shit like this...

 

[Federberg]

You start by saying that we have no idea on intelligence collection and then sum up by saying there is no doubt muslim communities make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed. That's a contradiction in itself, but on the latter, it's probably safe to say that some intelligence comes from islamic quarters.

read what I wrote again. Please don't mis-represent me. I know english is your first language.

I don't think it's appropriate to try to score points particularly as a friend of mine was working nearby when it took place.

 

[Nekro]

I think it's pretty low to start talking about political correctness here. Please exercise some common sense, how do you know that moderate muslims aren't providing human intelligence that's aiding the fight against terrorism in the UK? By it's very nature we would never know about it. Please stop with this nonsense. It's in extremely poor taste. Britain was attacked, and our intelligence services have been quite successful in limiting the frequency of these occurrences no doubt partly because we have muslim communities that make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed in this country

Just lol. So it's never right to talk about this problem, not before the attacks, not after the attacks, cause it's low, it's in poor taste.

And i wasn't talking about just intelligence anyway. I was talking about the moderates teaching normal behaviour to the radicals, or forcing them to stop their radical actions. Intelligence? ffs? who cares about that. What matters is that the terror and the killings have been going on for years and are intensifying and the moderates haven't achieved anything, there are no signs of improvement, there are lots of signs though that things are getting worse


Those march videos are great BTW, so there's no evidence the moderates are doing anything to improve things, there's tons of evidence though that even the moderates are not so moderate. Those muslim women marching, chanting, "UK go to hell" and "British police go to hell?" Isn't that low and in poor taste?


And yes political correctness is a cancer in this case. The politically correct evildoers are coming up with all kinds of idiotic concepts like "cultural racism" just lol!!!!! pure idiocy. Islam is not restricted to race or skin colour, trying to turn this issue into something related to race is pure abuse. And then tons of places when someone tries to open his mouth in defence of his peaceful culture or religion, the PC crew get rid of him using idiocy like "cultural racism" as an excuse.

Ofc the hateful marchers who are sending the natives to hell are never questioned, never shut up, they are untouchable... Incredible stupidity.

And when is it a better time to talk about this PROBLEM than after another manifestation of the problem. People got killed ffs, the families of the murdered ones want action too, who with any brains would want to sweep this thing under the carpet? When will it be not in poor taste to address the problem?

 

[britbox]

read what I wrote again. Please don't mis-represent me. I know english is your first language.

I don't think it's appropriate to try to score points particularly as a friend of mine was working nearby when it took place.

I wasn't scoring points... read your own post again. You said " By it's very nature we would never know about it." regarding intelligence provision and then summed up with "we have muslim communities that make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed" . If we don't know the first, then how can we assume the latter?

Anyway, it's a red herring, I don't doubt that some intelligence will come via muslim communities. The main issue is how the vitriol from extremist groups isn't clamped down at source, rather than allowed to ferment and grow.

Any other group preaching some of the stuff in those videos would have been clamped down upon hard and fast... and where are the moderate muslim counter-movements to this sort of extremism?

 

[Federberg]

Mate, I have seen and heard many muslims in the UK opposing terrorism. Unfortunately it's inevitable that these statements are never a priority for news reports. If you think the media is going to go out to muslim communities after an atrocity like this you're woefully naive. If the absence of that makes you think that moderate muslims are silent because you don't see the affirmative case then that tells me all I need to know and frankly it hints at the predisposition you have to think the worst of that community. There are groups that have been set up to counter the infiltration of terrorist propaganda. We have never had to deal with anything like this, and it's just a little too easy for the anti-muslim bunch to trot out their stuff when tragedies like this happens. The fact is that sadly it's all too easy for weak minded individuals to find an appeal in jihadism, you cannot tar an entire community because of this

 

[Federberg]

I wasn't scoring points... read your own post again. You said " By it's very nature we would never know about it." regarding intelligence provision and then summed up with "we have muslim communities that make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed" . If we don't know the first, then how can we assume the latter?

Anyway, it's a red herring, I don't doubt that some intelligence will come via muslim communities. The main issue is how the vitriol from extremist groups isn't clamped down at source, rather than allowed to ferment and grow.

Any other group preaching some of the stuff in those videos would have been clamped down upon hard and fast... and where are the moderate muslim counter-movements to this sort of extremism?

with all due respect read what I said again. I quote..."our intelligence services have been quite successful in limiting the frequency of these occurrences no doubt partly because we have muslim communities that make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed in this country". There is no contradiction there at all. our intelligence services have told us that they get humint from muslim communities that has been extremely helpful, but since it's never publicised and shouldn't be, it's easy to tarnish the entire bunch

 

[britbox]

with all due respect read what I said again. I quote..."our intelligence services have been quite successful in limiting the frequency of these occurrences no doubt partly because we have muslim communities that make it more difficult for terrorists to succeed in this country". There is no contradiction there at all. our intelligence services have told us that they get humint from muslim communities that has been extremely helpful, but since it's never publicised and shouldn't be, it's easy to tarnish the entire bunch

You're focusing on a minor point with the intelligence, which wasn't the crux of the post - just a remark on what you said... and nobody is tarnishing the whole muslim community for the atrocity... but if the anti-extremism feeling is as as strong as you suggest, then I'm still wondering where the counter-movements are... for every hard right EDL/BNP/British Movement/NF you get hard left movements like the ANL/UAF/Socialist Workers in bigger numbers... I don't see any evidence of any direct action counter-groups from the muslim community.

We have had to deal with this before - remember 7/7? It's not a first...and yet lessons don't seem to have been learned. Extremists are still being allowed to peddle their wares for years without impunity... That is the biggest problem here - and the main point... and they are allowed to do it. It breeds extremism and is a big threat.

 

[Federberg]

You're focusing on a minor point with the intelligence, which wasn't the crux of the post - just a remark on what you said... and nobody is tarnishing the whole muslim community for the atrocity... but if the anti-extremism feeling is as as strong as you suggest, then I'm still wondering where the counter-movements are... for every hard right EDL/BNP/British Movement/NF you get hard left movements like the ANL/UAF/Socialist Workers in bigger numbers... I don't see any evidence of any direct action counter-groups from the muslim community.

We have had to deal with this before - remember 7/7? It's not a first...and yet lessons don't seem to have been learned. Extremists are still being allowed to peddle their wares for years without impunity... That is the biggest problem here - and the main point... and they are allowed to do it. It breeds extremism and is a big threat.

I'm not focusing on a minor point. You misrepresented what I said pure and simple. It needed to be corrected.
I haven't made any comment on how strong anti-extremism feeling is. But I will observe that in a free society it's not incumbent on a community to take up against members of their group that do terrible things. You might as well complain about the fact that there aren't enough vocal male anti-rape groups getting on tv after every well publicised attack on women. Society doesn't work like that, unless you want to specifically target the muslim community? It's a very easy thing to do of course, and I can well understand how appealing it is to do that, when something like this happens. You cannot make the entire muslim community responsible for the bad apples. And please don't try to characterise me as pro-muslim (not that there is anything wrong with it) in this, I'm pro common sense