Tokyo Olympics 2021 - 24th July to 1st August 2021

[Front242]

False claim by you it's the biggest tennis event in the world Djokovic knew this too. I would say Olympics is on par with Majors very big in Goat Discussion so Nadal real major count is 21. Also you saying Olympics means nothing then Djokovic was in tears at Rio 2016 just shows that a tard you are. also Goat don't lose 3 matches in 24 hours LOL. Both Djokovic and Federer have done the worst acts in tennis this season Federer at RG and now Olympics for Djokovic.

Please just GO AWAY.....

Maybe take up knitting or something.

 

[Moxie]

Novak was answering the press when they brought up Biles and her withdrawal Novak then went on to say that Pressure is a Privilage and how he handles pressure etc etc........agree he cannot handle the pressure himself.That is what I said in my post.
In regards to Seffi Graf she was 19 in 1988 when she won Gold at the Olympics then went on to win the Golden Calendar Slam in the same year,indeed she handled the pressure
BTW when I say being 'Switzerland" I mean you are 'fence sitting' a phrase I have learnt Down Under

I understood your saying Switzerland implied "neutrality," which is not my strong suit when it comes to Djokovic. LOL. And I understood that Steffi won the CYGS and THEN won the Olympic Gold Medal, no? Still, she handled all of the pressure.

 

[Front242]

Not sure if anyone already quoted this and too lazy to go scrolling through pages about the Olympics and I watched none of it but...

""This is the biggest tournament you can win, in any sport* (except tennis)," Zverev said. "I can't believe it, I'm an Olympic gold medalist.""

* Fixed this for Zverev.

Alexander Zverev backs up upset of Novak Djokovic with comprehensive gold-medal match win over Karen Khachanov | Tennis.com

Barbora Krejčíková, Katerina Siniakova, Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova and Andrey Rublev also won Olympic gold medals on Sunday.

www.tennis.com

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I understood your saying Switzerland implied "neutrality," which is not my strong suit when it comes to Djokovic. LOL. And I understood that Steffi won the CYGS and THEN won the Olympic Gold Medal, no? Still, she handled all of the pressure.

I still do not think you can bring up Biles and Osaka 'mental issues' and then bring up Novak issues,which are completely different btw

 

[Moxie]

Not sure if anyone already quoted this and too lazy to go scrolling through pages about the Olympics and I watched none of it but...

""This is the biggest tournament you can win, in any sport* (except tennis)," Zverev said. "I can't believe it, I'm an Olympic gold medalist.""

* Fixed this for Zverev.

Alexander Zverev backs up upset of Novak Djokovic with comprehensive gold-medal match win over Karen Khachanov | Tennis.com

Barbora Krejčíková, Katerina Siniakova, Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova and Andrey Rublev also won Olympic gold medals on Sunday.

www.tennis.com

Once again, you deciding that you know better than anyone else. Though, you might also have considered adding football, basketball and curling. (OK, maybe not curling. )

 

[Moxie]

I still do not think you can bring up Biles and Osaka 'mental issues' and then bring up Novak issues,which are completely different btw

I understand your point, and there is nuance in each case. Osaka has anxiety issues. Biles has a dangerous mental block. (Suddenly, we all know what the "twisties" are.) And if Novak suffers from anything, I'd say it was a case of hubris (and insensitivity...it can't have escaped his notice what is going on with Osaka and Biles.) And also, I'd say, short-term memory loss. He's great at handling the pressure until he isn't. And somehow he thinks that he gets to brush off his poor on-court behavior as "just who he is," while, when Serena does it, she gets vilified. There was a cartoon buried in the article I posted above with one woman asking another: "What is the difference between "assertiveness" and "aggression?" And the other answers, "Your gender."

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I understand your point, and there is nuance in each case. Osaka has anxiety issues. Biles has a dangerous mental block. (Suddenly, we all know what the "twisties" are.) And if Novak suffers from anything, I'd say it was a case of hubris (and insensitivity...it can't have escaped his notice what is going on with Osaka and Biles.) And also, I'd say, short-term memory loss. He's great at handling the pressure until he isn't. And somehow he thinks that he gets to brush off his poor on-court behavior as "just who he is," while, when Serena does it, she gets vilified. There was a cartoon buried in the article I posted above with one woman asking another: "What is the difference between "assertiveness" and "aggression?" And the other answers, "Your gender."

We all handled 'pressure' in different ways,as sports people,I personally feel they should be setting good examples to younger people,who hold these sports people in high esteem.Some of these sports people think they are above being sanctioned,as we have seen this in our tennis sport over the years.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Yes, we all agree that Bo5 format favors the better player. But lots of people around here put down the Olympics because the competition isn't as strong. And this year, in particular, due to the number of top players who declined to attend. The field at the USO will be much stronger. Not the least of which because Nadal will be in, and he's beaten Novak more than lost to him at the USO. And while the best of 5 can work to Novak's favor, it can also work against it: he's self-proclaimed mentally and emotionally drained. He's going to have to get through 7 long matches, with the pressure of the CYGS on him. I'll just say it again: if Serena 2015 fell two matches short, I don't see Novak getting it done. And yes, in part, because there is blood in the water. And Djokovic knows it, too.

Nole completed Nole-Slam when he won 2016 RG. That kind of four in a row GS trophies was neither achieved by Fed nor by Ralph. Surely, that would have been pressure filled situation as well. But, he managed to do it. So, I don't really buy that he will buckle under pressure.

I am not claiming that Novak will actually complete the CYGS. But, I am of the opinion that if he does not, it will be because his tennis was not good enough and he was outplayed as opposed to he buckling under pressure. Come on, Serena lost to a doubles player Roberta Vincy who was unknown even in doubles. The comparable thing is something like Novak losing to Rajiv Ram in Singles - that ain't going to happen.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The excruciating pressure of the Olympics is that it’s once every 4 years.

At least in tennis, there are 4 GSs each year (not mention tournaments happening every week; if you lose you can always hope to rebound next week). Imagine people in other sports such as swimming, running, weight-lifting etc. They train for four years, hoping to deliver at Olympics and if they cannot, everything goes down the drain (and in some events, you may be too old when the next Olympics comes along to have a realistic chance).

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Moxie if you are still around I found this regarding Djokovic,regarding his racket smashing and throwing his racket into the stadium at the Olympics.

Djokovic is the most difficult player to understand when it comes to the mental aspect of tennis.98% of the time,he is in that Zen Mode where he dosen't get flustered in the slightest.The rest 2% of the time he acts like Paire or Kygrios.

 

[Moxie]

Nole completed Nole-Slam when he won 2016 RG. That kind of four in a row GS trophies was neither achieved by Fed nor by Ralph. Surely, that would have been pressure filled situation as well. But, he managed to do it. So, I don't really buy that he will buckle under pressure.

I am not claiming that Novak will actually complete the CYGS. But, I am of the opinion that if he does not, it will be because his tennis was not good enough and he was outplayed as opposed to he buckling under pressure. Come on, Serena lost to a doubles player Roberta Vincy who was unknown even in doubles. The comparable thing is something like Novak losing to Rajiv Ram in Singles - that ain't going to happen.

Yes, he completed the Nole Slam, in 2016, when Fedal were not much there to block him. But he DID buckle rather immediately afterwards. After two very strong rounds at Wimbledon that year, he fell to Querrey, and it has to be said it was clear that a lot of that was mental, on his part. I'm just saying, he's susceptible to the pressure.

As to Vinci, you are wrong about her. First of all, she was in the SFs. And she was a very good doubles player. She won 5 GS doubles, so just because YOU don't know her as a doubles player apparently means nothing. While none of us thought that Serena would lose to her, pre-match, here is why I think Vinci was the perfect person to take her down in that match, which is related to why I think Querrey was the perfect person to take out Novak at Wimbledon in 2016. If you watched the Williams v Vinci SF, Serena started nervous, with heavy legs. Vinci, a veteran, and a great doubles player, was not over-awed by either Serena, or the moment. She saw that she was nervous, and kept her moving those heavy legs. She won that match on experience, and guile and by moving Serena front to back, not just giving into side to side.

Sam Querrey, likewise, I think was perfectly placed to take out Novak in W. 2016. He's experienced, he was having some great serving, and he was chill enough to wait for the opportunities. No one saw that coming, and it did remain the upset of the year on the ATP side. Was it all Querrey? No.

So you insist that Novak will only lose at the USO if his tennis is not good enough. I'm saying that the pressure is going to be a thing, and the right player at the right moment can catch him up. His tennis is spectacular, no doubt. And if he withstands the pressure, the physical and emotional fatigue, and all comers, including Nadal, who will be fresher, well, good on him. But there are a lot of minefields, (mind fields?) to get there, as Serena can tell you.

 

[Moxie]

Moxie if you are still around I found this regarding Djokovic,regarding his racket smashing and throwing his racket into the stadium at the Olympics.

Djokovic is the most difficult player to understand when it comes to the mental aspect of tennis.98% of the time,he is in that Zen Mode where he dosen't get flustered in the slightest.The rest 2% of the time he acts like Paire or Kygrios.

That's both hilarious, and worth a deeper dive. I think it's what we're all trying to work out about him. Basically everyone is agreed that Paire is a jerk, and everyone wants to see him go down. About 60/40 on Kyrgios. Have they "earned" their petulant behavior? Most would say that Paire hasn't, and Nick, maybe. Or, at least, that he is what he is, and some of us will take him. But what to do with Novak? He's world #1. Is he supposed to be a model of better behavior? Or does he get a pass for occasionally blowing off steam? Or, if he gets to, then why not everyone else? Or maybe this is an important distinction: we allow for characters, like Kyrgios and Fognini in the secondary roles, but we're not as willing to see this kind of behavior in our stars. Either you choose to be a court jester or a king, but you can't be both? Interesting question.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Yes, he completed the Nole Slam, in 2016, when Fedal were not much there to block him. But he DID buckle rather immediately afterwards. After two very strong rounds at Wimbledon that year, he fell to Querrey, and it has to be said it was clear that a lot of that was mental, on his part. I'm just saying, he's susceptible to the pressure.

Novak just finished Nole slam before coming to Wimbledon. He was content and goofed off. That's it (not to mention Bollywood stories and wrist issues).

My main objection is that you are projecting as thought that Wimbledon was a very special event for Novak and he had heavy pressure to win it. That is not the case. The RG before ithat was the special event for Novak, considering Nole-slam was at stake and he delivered there.

2016 Wimbledon was of course a GS; but there are four every year. Nothing special about it. You cannot say, Novak succumbed to pressure. If losing at a generic GS can be called succumbing to pressure, then Federer succumbed to pressure so many times and Nadal succumbed to pressure so many times.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

That's both hilarious, and worth a deeper dive. I think it's what we're all trying to work out about him. Basically everyone is agreed that Paire is a jerk, and everyone wants to see him go down. About 60/40 on Kyrgios. Have they "earned" their petulant behavior? Most would say that Paire hasn't, and Nick, maybe. Or, at least, that he is what he is, and some of us will take him. But what to do with Novak? He's world #1. Is he supposed to be a model of better behavior? Or does he get a pass for occasionally blowing off steam? Or, if he gets to, then why not everyone else? Or maybe this is an important distinction: we allow for characters, like Kyrgios and Fognini in the secondary roles, but we're not as willing to see this kind of behavior in our stars. Either you choose to be a court jester or a king, but you can't be both? Interesting question.

Paire to me is just a 'jerk' and cannot be taken seriously at all,some of the things he does on court is 'disgraceful"
Nick had had his moments where I thought he should have been suspended with his over the top antics on court
The Fog and his outburst's have also been 'cringe worthy' through out his career,thank goodness for the youngsters from Italy we now have in our game.
Then we have the No 1 player Novak,who has also had his ''moments' especially at the USO when he was defaulted and rightly so.

These players are suppose to be 'role models' especially to younger people who look up to them in high esteem?
What kind of message are they conveying when they behave like this on court, younger people will think well if they can behave like that so can I.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Paire to me is just a 'jerk' and cannot be taken seriously at all,some of the things he does on court is 'disgraceful"
Nick had had his moments where I thought he should have been suspended with his over the top antics on court
The Fog and his outburst's have also been 'cringe worthy' through out his career,thank goodness for the youngsters from Italy we now have in our game.
Then we have the No 1 player Novak,who has also had his ''moments' especially at the USO when he was defaulted and rightly so.

These players are suppose to be 'role models' especially to younger people who look up to them in high esteem?
What kind of message are they conveying when they behave like this on court, younger people will think well if they can behave like that so can I.

This may need to be moved to the ATP villians thread

 

[Moxie]

This may need to be moved to the ATP villians thread

Right now, it's all of a piece, as a particular "villain" is in the news.

 

[Moxie]

Novak just finished Nole slam before coming to Wimbledon. He was content and goofed off. That's it (not to mention Bollywood stories and wrist issues).

I know you like to bring up "Bollywood" a lot, (and Novak did cite "personal issues" when he lost 3rd Rd W that year.) You can characterize it that he was "content" and that he "goofed off." I think it was that he was emotionally spent from the win at RG. I guess we can agree to disagree about why he lost that match to Querrey, but I imagine that you actually watched it. It was a strange match from Djokovic, and he did appear to give up, in the 2nd set, and at the end of the 4th. You call it what you like, but I think it was succumbing to pressure, emotional fatigue, life issues. Whatever. I don't think the wrist had f-all to do with it.

My main objection is that you are projecting as thought that Wimbledon was a very special event for Novak and he had heavy pressure to win it. That is not the case. The RG before ithat was the special event for Novak, considering Nole-slam was at stake and he delivered there.

2016 Wimbledon was of course a GS; but there are four every year. Nothing special about it. You cannot say, Novak succumbed to pressure. If losing at a generic GS can be called succumbing to pressure, then Federer succumbed to pressure so many times and Nadal succumbed to pressure so many times.

I am astonished that you would call any Major "generic." It's a Major, and Novak didn't win late, he lost early, that Wimbledon. If you think it was all bonus at that stage and it doesn't matter, that's fine. But he did deflate like a balloon with a pin put in it, and that's my point about what can happen to him in the next few weeks. It's happened before, and it can happen again.

For sure, Roger has succumbed to pressure. 2019 W final, with the match on his racquet, and 2009 AO, with the record to tie Sampras come to mind. Rafa rather less so. Not to say he hasn't had big losses, because he has. But when he was pressed to win his Career Slam, he did it at first ask. His first HC Major, after a grueling SF (AO 2009,) he completed. Protect his FO 12 times, pretty much held that up. Oh, and the Rafa Slam at AO in 2011? Injured and went out early, so the pressure didn't feature. I'm not sure your point that they've all had the same pressure. Neither Rafa or Roger ever got this close to CYGS, or had a non-CYGS, so they haven't been under the same pressure.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I am astonished that you would call any Major "generic." It's a Major, and Novak didn't win late, he lost early, that Wimbledon. If you think it was all bonus at that stage and it doesn't matter, that's fine. But he did deflate like a balloon with a pin put in it, and that's my point about what can happen to him in the next few weeks. It's happened before, and it can happen again.

Of course, one would like to win all majors.

But, you still are not getting the point. When we went to RG 2016, that is where he faced pressure and doubly so. First, because he has never won RG before. Second, he is in the last leg of Nole-slam. Completing a non-calendar GS is difficult and doing so at a major that you have never won before is even more difficult. But, he delivered there.

If Novak had failed at that RG and had instead won Wimbledon, I can understand you citing his loss as evidence to point out that he cannot withstand pressure. But, here he delivered when it mattered most. You are making a big deal of Novak losing at that WImbledon. That way everyone has lost GSs at early stage and to players against whom you expect them to win. Rafa on multiple occassions to people ranked outside 100 in Wimbledon. Roger lost to Seppi in AO, he lost to Robredo at USO etc. Novak's loss at Wimbledon 2016 is comparable to these losses of Federer (a random loss so to speak) as opposed to Fed's loss at 2009 AO when things were at stake or Rafa's loss at this year's RG when things were at stake.

 

[Moxie]

Of course, one would like to win all majors.

But, you still are not getting the point. When we went to RG 2016, that is where he faced pressure and doubly so. First, because he has never won RG before. Second, he is in the last leg of Nole-slam. Completing a non-calendar GS is difficult and doing so at a major that you have never won before is even more difficult. But, he delivered there.

If Novak had failed at that RG and had instead won Wimbledon, I can understand you citing his loss as evidence to point out that he cannot withstand pressure. But, here he delivered when it mattered most. You are making a big deal of Novak losing at that WImbledon. That way everyone has lost GSs at early stage and to players against whom you expect them to win. Rafa on multiple occassions to people ranked outside 100 in Wimbledon. Roger lost to Seppi in AO, he lost to Robredo at USO etc. Novak's loss at Wimbledon 2016 is comparable to these losses of Federer (a random loss so to speak) as opposed to Fed's loss at 2009 AO when things were at stake or Rafa's loss at this year's RG when things were at stake.

I guess I get your point...that Novak relaxed after RG 2016 because he could finally afford to, and the early loss at Wimbledon tells us nothing. That is a fair point. I still don't think he's the best under pressure, and I guess we'll see come the USO.

 

[MikeOne]

Before olympics, i was hoping Djoker opted not to go, i thought it would be GREED and ill advised. Turns out, he had to go.... a grand slam wouldn't be enough would it? has to be a 'golden slam'.

there were several reasons not to go. First, Djoker is human and winning a calendar slam requires almost super human abilities, there is a reason no-one has done it since 60s... Nadal needed rest after FO, Tsitsipas couldn't even get past first round of wimbledon after making finals of FO.... Berrettini needed rest after making W finals. Djokovic should've been more tired than all of them, having won all 3 slams. It is a mental and physical challenge..

but not only this, the heat in Tokyo was a disaster across many sports.... and empty stadiums....

greed got in the way.... these guys, when winning, have a hard time taking a pause. We saw it in 09, after Nadal dominated 08.. and he got injured. We saw it in 17 after Nole won 4 slams in a row in 15-16.... injury which sidelined him for 1 year. No matter how fit and strong Nadal and Djokovic are, they are human. They have struggled to pace theselves during hot streaks...

This serves djokovic right. Played in empty stadiums, in extreme heat, crushed by Zverev and couldn't even get bronze. Was it worth it? Now, US Open not looking very promising. Nadal has a great shot, he plays well at USO hardcourt and seems rested and ready to roll..