Time to crown Novak the GOAT?

[atttomole]

Lol… i love how novak has gotten into so many fedal fans’s head, they can’t even sleep

i’m not even entertaining more dicussion on his mental strength or how he was a ‘threat to public safety’. Just way to ridiculous to argue these topics…

i love the competition argument now. Fedal fans are becoming more desparate. Btw, are we going to factor in that federer during 04-06 accumulated 6-7 slams without djokovic and a baby nadal? Lucky him..

when djokovic rose, in 07.. he was facing fedal at their strongest. He faced them at their best for years. He has beaten in both playing at their best, he even started beating prime fed in 07 when novak was a baby…

I’d say fed was lucky as hell he didn’t have to face the true goat between 04-06!

and i have to say. If djokivic wins his 8th wimbledon this year, you all realize how devastating this will be for federer? Novak will be way ahead of nadal in weeks at #1, have an edge on rafa in slams, masters, h2h but rafa will still be able to say he was king of clay. If djokovic wins his 8th wimbledon, we won’t even be able to say federer was the king of grass. Lol… devastating. To be frank, out of respect for federer, i hope novak doesn’t get his 8th wimbledon. Novak already has all the most significant records, i would actually feel bad if he gets his 8th wimbledon title and given his 3-0 record vs so called grass king at wimbledon finals, would basically egde federer and be known as grass court king. THIS WOULD BE TOO MUCH… i’d be ok if novak doesn’t win his 8th so federer is at least remembered as best somewhere… he deserves to be remembered as grass court king at least!!!

To be honest, it’s mostly Nadal fans. Most Fed fans have left tennis frontier.

 

[Kieran]

MikeOne was making the rounds on tennis forums before you even knew tennis forums existed.. these debates about grass through the decades i’ve had to the point where getting back into can only serve to educate those who lack knowledge of the game, especially those talking big and belittling others, like yourself. A sign of insecurity, i can see why. You are like a self professed doctor who googles medical topics and then boasts about being knowledgeable. Your knowledge of tennis is about as good as my 10 year old nephew’s, who is a junior player and just now reading up on history and asking questions.

so you never answered me on why novak, who has arguably most complete game ever, would not be a dominant force on grass given baseliners like Borg had success. Where’s my answer? At least set forth your arguments and don’t just claim you have knowledge…

Borg actually could volley but he was a top spiner who wreaked havoc on fast grass. Why? Agassi was half the player novak is. So you simply have no reasonable argument to back up your claims other than tell me i’ve missed out on debates and that you just have the answers. If you were a contributer in those debates i can confidently state i missed out on nothing.

you can say federer would just dominate on fast courts of previous eras and not djokovic but you have to back it up… given how unimpressed i am with your so called knowledge, i actually need to see you put together some semi reasonable arguments instead of just saying you are an expert. Btw, using ad hominem arguments are usually not a way to win arguments.

I love the way you refer to yourself in the third person. MikeOne was thinking that MikeOne needs to remind us about MikeOne when we all remember MikeOne very well, and have seen that MikeOne hasn’t changed, learned, or said anything interesting in all that time. We know what tennis fans look like and MikeOne was never a tennis fan. MikeOne is a permanent teenager obsessing about goats. MikeOne thinks that if his latest squeeze is goat then that reflects favourably on MikeOne. MikeOne is loyal. When MikeOne’s crush lies and gets caught lying, MikeOne gets angry and defends them. MikeOne runs and hides eventually, after boring everybody to tears with his goat issues. MikeOne doesn’t know that there’s no goat, which is odd because MikeOne has been making the rounds since Pontius was a pilot with Delta Airlines.

As for the bolded part, read all my posts that I wrote in your absence. It was addressed clearly and definitively somewhere in there…

 

[Kieran]

To be honest, it’s mostly Nadal fans. Most Fed fans have left tennis frontier.

People move on when their favourite players retire. That’s natural. They still like tennis but they’re rootless until they get a new player that excites them enough to keep them awake at night following the onscreen scoreboard of a match in some far flung place. And talking about fans leaving TF - Djoker fans leave it all the time. They go hide somewhere and only return when he’s winning. They’re fair weather fans, especially the clown you were responding to…

 

[atttomole]

People move on when their favourite players retire. That’s natural. They still like tennis but they’re rootless until they get a new player that excites them enough to keep them awake at night following the onscreen scoreboard of a match in some far flung place. And talking about fans leaving TF - Djoker fans leave it all the time. They go hide somewhere and only return when he’s winning. They’re fair weather fans, especially the clown you were responding to…

I agree about Djokovic fans. They are crawling out of the woodwork!! More will be coming back in the next few months, especially if he wins Wimbledon.

 

[Kieran]

I agree about Djokovic fans. They are crawling out of the woodwork!! More will be coming back in the next few months, especially if he wins Wimbledon.

And all of them will immediately vanish if he loses there, except a couple of notables like @Fiero425 - and he’s too embarrassed to come out as a Djokolyte..

 

[MikeOne]

I agree about Djokovic fans. They are crawling out of the woodwork!! More will be coming back in the next few months, especially if he wins Wimbledon.

Absolutely! We have watched fedal fans gloat and rejoice when djokovic was treated horribly by media and australian government who allowed him in, then kicked him out by casting him as some threat to public safety. Nadal fans like moxie and djoker haters like kieran celebrated novak’s misfortunes which showed me true colors of some here who would cheer such things just wishing it would stop novak on his path to greatness. Unfortunately for some of you, this just delayed the inevible and now it’s our time to rejoice.

and btw, i don’t want novak to win his 8th wimbledon.. i havr too much respect for federer to see novak even take away fed’s status of grass court king. Let’s have rafa claim he was clay court king, fed claim he was grass court king and novak the GOAT.

 

[MikeOne]

I love the way you refer to yourself in the third person. MikeOne was thinking that MikeOne needs to remind us about MikeOne when we all remember MikeOne very well, and have seen that MikeOne hasn’t changed, learned, or said anything interesting in all that time. We know what tennis fans look like and MikeOne was never a tennis fan. MikeOne is a permanent teenager obsessing about goats. MikeOne thinks that if his latest squeeze is goat then that reflects favourably on MikeOne. MikeOne is loyal. When MikeOne’s crush lies and gets caught lying, MikeOne gets angry and defends them. MikeOne runs and hides eventually, after boring everybody to tears with his goat issues. MikeOne doesn’t know that there’s no goat, which is odd because MikeOne has been making the rounds since Pontius was a pilot with Delta Airlines.

As for the bolded part, read all my posts that I wrote in your absence. It was addressed clearly and definitively somewhere in there…

Speaking of immaturity and being a kid, just read your post and imagine it were someone else. What age would you guess? 12?

 

[BratSrbin]

‘It has to be Federer’ – Tennis greats not convinced Djokovic has won GOAT race​

There are even more world greats who say No1e is the GOAT.
And no1ehaters have to accept the truth. Sooner or later.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

There are even more world greats who say No1e is the GOAT.
And no1ehaters have to accept the truth. Sooner or later.

Bro, it was 22-20-20 not long ago and you were conveniently not here. Then Nadal got injured in mid-last year opening the door for Pushovic to win a few slams and here you are all over the forum behaving in an unbearable way. Get over yourself.

 

[Moxie]

I agree about Djokovic fans. They are crawling out of the woodwork!! More will be coming back in the next few months, especially if he wins Wimbledon.

In fairness to Federer fans around here, @El Dude is still around and very active, @Front242 posts on the tennis side and still takes an interest, as does @mrzz, recently seen to give us some insight into fellow Brazilian Seyboth Wild, (who featured recently at RG.) That's kind of more than we have Djokovic fans, and Federer is retired!

Maybe they'll come back if Djokovic continues to have a good year, but, most tend to jump in to gloat and then scupper back away. Curious.

 

[Moxie]

Absolutely! We have watched fedal fans gloat and rejoice when djokovic was treated horribly by media and australian government who allowed him in, then kicked him out by casting him as some threat to public safety.

You ARE drinking the kool-aid of Djokovic victimization. The Australian government didn't actually "allow him in," and then arbitrarily kick him out. You can visit the thread we have for this, to correct your factual errors.

Nadal fans like moxie and djoker haters like kieran celebrated novak’s misfortunes which showed me true colors of some here who would cheer such things just wishing it would stop novak on his path to greatness. Unfortunately for some of you, this just delayed the inevible and now it’s our time to rejoice.

If you'd visit more often, you'd realize that it wasn't about rejoicing, but much long and thoughtful conversation. But that doesn't really seem to be your thing. And let's not pretend about Novak's "misfortunes." What "misfortunes?" That he chose not to be vaccinated? He made his choices, knowing potential consequences. Even HE finally copped to that. Or getting DQ's out of the USO for hitting a lines person? That is not a consequence of misadventure. It's something he'd been flirting with for a long time, and it finally bit him in the ass.

and btw, i don’t want novak to win his 8th wimbledon.. i havr too much respect for federer to see novak even take away fed’s status of grass court king. Let’s have rafa claim he was clay court king, fed claim he was grass court king and novak the GOAT.

 

[BratSrbin]

Bro, it was 22-20-20 not long ago and you were conveniently not here. Then Nadal got injured in mid-last year opening the door for Pushovic to win a few slams and here you are all over the forum behaving in an unbearable way. Get over yourself.

You can put all unwanted ones on the ignore list. Especially me. But remember I'm not a hater like you and many others on this forum.

 

[Moxie]

Аустралијску визу можеш добити на улици, значи? И од било кога из Аустралије потписану?

It's very passive-aggressive of you to write in a language you think no one understands. Ever hear of Google Translate?

"You can get an Australian visa on the street, right? And signed by anyone from Australia?"

Perhaps one can buy an Australian visa on the street like a knock-off handbag. Presumably that's where Novak got his. Because it didn't actually stand up to scrutiny.

 

[MikeOne]

A great analysis backed up by strong logic to determine the weak era, which was 2001-2007 during which federer won 11 of his slams

based on logic, facts

1. Federer was born 10 years after the former dominant champion (sampras) which is largest age gap of current great vs his predecessor since 60s. The video shows 4 years was largest gap before federer came on
2. 15 year age gap between greats before and after federer (sampas -nadal), largest since 60s
3. Federer played by far the least number of matches against former all time greats before him. Sampras and djokovic have the played the most against former greats before them (100+). Federer only played 12 matches against greats before him, the lowest of all greats since 60s. There was just a massive vaccum when federer came into scene
4. Nadal’s prime was 2008-2013. Djokovic’s prime was 2011-current

federer dominated the weak era 2001-2007. He preyed on the likes of roddick, hewitt, philipousis, back injury ridden agassi, blake etc… and even a very young 1 dimensional nadal in 06-07 a d baby novak in 07.

 

[britbox]

A great analysis backed up by strong logic to determine the weak era, which was 2001-2007 during which federer won 11 of his slams

based on logic, facts

1. Federer was born 10 years after the former dominant champion (sampras) which is largest age gap of current great vs his predecessor since 60s. The video shows 4 years was largest gap before federer came on
2. 15 year age gap between greats before and after federer (sampas -nadal), largest since 60s
3. Federer played by far the least number of matches against former all time greats before him. Sampras and djokovic have the played the most against former greats before them (100+). Federer only played 12 matches against greats before him, the lowest of all greats since 60s. There was just a massive vaccum when federer came into scene
4. Nadal’s prime was 2008-2013. Djokovic’s prime was 2011-current

federer dominated the weak era 2001-2007. He preyed on the likes of roddick, hewitt, philipousis, back injury ridden agassi, blake etc… and even a very young 1 dimensional nadal in 06-07 a d baby novak in 07.

Dominant champions narrow the opportunity for "all-time greats" ever coming to pass.

 

[El Dude]

This again?

I agree that the late 90s to early 00s was relatively weak, but it was still competitive - especially once Roger's generation--starting with Safin and Hewitt, both of whom were phenomenal players--emerged in 2000-01.

We can counter this argument by pointing out that Roger dominated his own peer group (players born late 70s to early 80s) unlike any player in the Open Era. As Britbox pointed out, he had a direct impact on his peers, blocking any of them from emerging as ATGs.

I still think that Novak has the best case for singular GOAT, but I don't see the need to try to litigate "weak era theory" again. Novak has the edge over Roger, as far as career accomplishments go.

 

[Fiero425]

This again?

I agree that the late 90s to early 00s was relatively weak, but it was still competitive - especially once Roger's generation--starting with Safin and Hewitt, both of whom were phenomenal players--emerged in 2000-01.

We can counter this argument by pointing out that Roger dominated his own peer group (players born late 70s to early 80s) unlike any player in the Open Era. As Britbox pointed out, he had a direct impact on his peers, blocking any of them from emerging as ATGs.

I still think that Novak has the best case for singular GOAT, but I don't see the need to try to litigate "weak era theory" again. Novak has the edge over Roger, as far as career accomplishments go.

Literally, what's Novak missing? I laugh when I hear Murray or McEnroe speaking about "nuance" when it comes to being the GOAT! What a joke!

 

[nehmeth]

Literally, what's Novak missing? I laugh when I hear Murray or McEnroe speaking about "nuance" when it comes to being the GOAT! What a joke!

He’s won all the 1000’s twice. No one else has ever won all of them once.
While yet to hold all the slams in a calendar year, he’s held all four titles at the same time.
To me, those things mean more than #23.
Add weeks at #1 and years end #1, he’s continuing to build his resume.

 

[Kieran]

This again?

I agree that the late 90s to early 00s was relatively weak, but it was still competitive - especially once Roger's generation--starting with Safin and Hewitt, both of whom were phenomenal players--emerged in 2000-01.

We can counter this argument by pointing out that Roger dominated his own peer group (players born late 70s to early 80s) unlike any player in the Open Era. As Britbox pointed out, he had a direct impact on his peers, blocking any of them from emerging as ATGs.

I still think that Novak has the best case for singular GOAT, but I don't see the need to try to litigate "weak era theory" again. Novak has the edge over Roger, as far as career accomplishments go.

You can’t be an ‘ATG’ if you’re blocked and have achieved little, right? It’s a contradiction in terms.

I don’t believe in goats and I think the Big 3 era clearly illustrates why. There are different opportunities, merely. And the Big 3 era clearly illustrates this too. It’s been argued to death, and yet there’s a more interesting question at hand here: why are modern sports fans so obsessed with goats. There’s a reason why, I wonder what other people think that is…

 

[El Dude]

You can’t be an ‘ATG’ if you’re blocked and have achieved little, right? It’s a contradiction in terms.

I don’t believe in goats and I think the Big 3 era clearly illustrates why. There are different opportunities, merely. And the Big 3 era clearly illustrates this too. It’s been argued to death, and yet there’s a more interesting question at hand here: why are modern sports fans so obsessed with goats. There’s a reason why, I wonder what other people think that is…

My sense is that it goes to the heart of (Western) ideology: be the best, rise to the top, etc etc. Stuff that mostly originated in the "Age of Enlightenment," and more so with the Freudian superego, capitalism and the "Cult of Me." Even the self-help world is infected with this ideology: Be the best version of yourself as you possibly can, YOLO, etc...seemingly benign encouragements, but which puts enormous pressure on all of us, because we all inevitably fail.

There's also a personal psychological component: We live vicariously through our favorites, so if My Guy isn't the best, what does that say about me?

As you know, I take a "two truths" view. One is in agreement with you (and Moxie) and the other is playing the game of career accomplishments and singular GOATdom. So the answer, for me, is "No one, but kinda Novak." Taking the latter view doesn't mean that I don't think other players were equally brilliant and gifted - certainly Rafa, Roger, Borg, McEnroe, Laver, Gonzales, maybe others, played tennis on the "ultra-sublime" level, within which there are no real rankings, just sublime tennis of different variations. Calling Novak the GOAT is just recognizing that, when all is said and done, he has the best career resume, at least post-Laver.