Time to crown Novak the GOAT?

Fiero425

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Actually if you knew more about tennis you’d understand that Novak and Rafa might not even have one Wimbledon title between them on grass that was played on before the game homogenised. Roger technically is better suited than both of them for that type of grass..

But as usual, that all means nothing b/c the courts were homogenised! So Roger's record isn't set in stone! He's still the best for the moment! :face-with-hand-over-mouth:
 

Kieran

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But as usual, that all means nothing b/c the courts were homogenised! So Roger's record isn't set in stone! He's still the best for the moment! :face-with-hand-over-mouth:
Yeah but when people who are new to tennis gloat about goats, they don’t seem to know that the -at in ‘goat’ stands for ‘all time’ and not just the last five minutes…
 

Kieran

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Too bad in '96! Krajicek was one player that could just blast him off the courit w/ his serve & FH; grass or HC! Pete might have had 8 in a row! :clap:
Yeah Pete was still shellshocked after the recent death of his coach. That USO run was one of the most gutsy and heroic achievements in modern tennis..
 

Fiero425

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Yeah Pete was still shellshocked after the recent death of his coach. That USO run was one of the most gutsy and heroic achievements in modern tennis..

Pete was still able to overcome Courier at the '95 AO QF after being down 2 sets! Tim had collapsed earlier! I can still see Pete breaking down in tears! Jim offered to play the match the next day, but that was ridiculous! Pete got by Chang in 4, but wasn't able to finish off Andre in the final! :facepalm:
 

MikeOne

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Actually if you knew more about tennis you’d understand that Novak and Rafa might not even have one Wimbledon title between them on grass that was played on before the game homogenised. Roger technically is better suited than both of them for that type of grass..
Ha…
You are speaking to someone who was a did hard Sampras fan who used to make same argument to argue sampas > federer on fast grass. Here is where this sort of breaks down.

if fast grass of 70s, 80s, 90s was so rough for baseliners, what was borg doing winning 5 wimbledons, agassi making multiple finals and winning it, courier and malivai washington making finals? Rofl.. djokovic has better movement, serve, baseline wnd even vollleys than all of these basliners.. he would’ve been absolute HELL and possibly dominated grass.

federer himself was asked about how grass has changed and he himself said it was hogwash.. that grass was still very fast. Look it up, federer’s own words.

think to yourself, why are folks like kyrgios deadly on grass, yet suck on clay? Grass fast and if you actually knew the game, you would see djokovic, with his complete game, winning many wimbledons in past eras… study the game before you accuse others of lacking knowledge.
 
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Kieran

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Ha…
You are speaking to someone who was a did hard Sampras fan who used to make same argument to argue sampas > federer on fast grass. Here is where this sort of breaks down.

if fast grass of 70s, 80s, 90s was so rough for baseliners, what was borg doing winning 5 wimbledons, agassi making multiple finals and winning it, courier and malivai washington making finals? Rofl.. djokovic has better movement, serve, baseline wnd even vollleys than all of these basliners.. he would’ve been absolute HELL and possibly dominated grass.

federer himself was asked about how grass has changed and he himself said it was hogwash.. that grass was still very fast. Look it up, federer’s own words.

think to yourself, why are folks like kyrgios deadly on grass, yet suck on clay? Grass fast and if you actually knew the game, you would see djokovic, with his complete game, winning many wimbledons in past eras… study the game before you accuse others of lacking knowledge.
If you hung around longer than to occasionally gloat like an buffoon, and say nothing sensible beyond that, you’d see that we’ve discussed Borg on grass. We’ve even discussed Agassi. And Novak. You’d find out that faster grass doesn’t imply that today’s grass is like 80’s clay. You’d find out that after Sampras-Goran serve fests Wimbledon gradually changed the grass to encourage longer rallies. If it was still as fast as it was in 1984 or 1994, we’d see more players serve and volley. Rallying from the baseline is the least efficient and economic way to win on old fast grass, especially against an expert serve-volleyer…
 

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Too bad in '96! Krajicek was one player that could just blast Pete off the court w/ his serve & FH; grass or HC! Pete might have had 8 in a row! :clap:
Let's not forget that Pete got lucky and caught a break in 1999 with the Mark Philippoussis injury. I feel bad for Mark because he was really dominating Pete that day before he got injured.
 
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Fiero425

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Let's not forget that Pete got lucky and caught a break in 1999 with the Mark Philippoussis injury. I feel bad for Mark because he was really dominating Pete that day before he got injured.

Pete was on the wane around then; hence dropping 2 str. finals at the USO; Safin & Hewitt! He was quite fortunate holding onto that 6th YE #1! :facepalm:
 

Kieran

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Let's not forget that Pete got lucky and caught a break in 1999 with the Mark Philippoussis injury. I feel bad for Mark because he was really dominating Pete that day before he got injured.
What score was it when they stopped?
 

Kieran

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Let's not forget that Pete got lucky and caught a break in 1999 with the Mark Philippoussis injury. I feel bad for Mark because he was really dominating Pete that day before he got injured.
The score when they stopped was that Mark won the first set 6-4, and Pete was up 2-1 in the second. That’s hardly somebody “really dominating…”
 

MikeOne

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If you hung around longer than to occasionally gloat like an buffoon, and say nothing sensible beyond that, you’d see that we’ve discussed Borg on grass. We’ve even discussed Agassi. And Novak. You’d find out that faster grass doesn’t imply that today’s grass is like 80’s clay. You’d find out that after Sampras-Goran serve fests Wimbledon gradually changed the grass to encourage longer rallies. If it was still as fast as it was in 1984 or 1994, we’d see more players serve and volley. Rallying from the baseline is the least efficient and economic way to win on old fast grass, especially against an expert serve-volleyer…
MikeOne was making the rounds on tennis forums before you even knew tennis forums existed.. these debates about grass through the decades i’ve had to the point where getting back into can only serve to educate those who lack knowledge of the game, especially those talking big and belittling others, like yourself. A sign of insecurity, i can see why. You are like a self professed doctor who googles medical topics and then boasts about being knowledgeable. Your knowledge of tennis is about as good as my 10 year old nephew’s, who is a junior player and just now reading up on history and asking questions.

so you never answered me on why novak, who has arguably most complete game ever, would not be a dominant force on grass given baseliners like Borg had success. Where’s my answer? At least set forth your arguments and don’t just claim you have knowledge…

Borg actually could volley but he was a top spiner who wreaked havoc on fast grass. Why? Agassi was half the player novak is. So you simply have no reasonable argument to back up your claims other than tell me i’ve missed out on debates and that you just have the answers. If you were a contributer in those debates i can confidently state i missed out on nothing.

you can say federer would just dominate on fast courts of previous eras and not djokovic but you have to back it up… given how unimpressed i am with your so called knowledge, i actually need to see you put together some semi reasonable arguments instead of just saying you are an expert. Btw, using ad hominem arguments are usually not a way to win arguments.
 
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Fiero425

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Guys, did federer really go 0-3 against novak in wimbledon finals?

They don't like to talk about it; esp. 2019 Final w/ a couple MP's! His fans say he was "past it" by then & Novak can't take credit for defeating an old man! It doesn't matter that Fed beat Nadal 2 years B4 that! You won't get rational discussions w/ Fedal fans! The frustration runs too deep! :face-with-hand-over-mouth:
 
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PhiEaglesfan712

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Guys, did federer really go 0-3 against novak in wimbledon finals?
Yeah, but Roger looked like the better player in 2 of those finals (2014 and 2019). I'm still in disbelief that he didn't win either one. A few bounces the other way, and Roger has 10 Wimbledon finals with a 2-1 record against Novak in Wimbledon finals.
 
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MikeOne

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They don't like to talk about it; esp. 2019 Final w/ a couple MP's! His fans say he was "past it" by then & Novak can't take credit for defeating an old man! It doesn't matter that Fed beat Nadal 2 years B4 that! You won't get rational discussions w/ Fedal fans! The frustration runs too deep! :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

Yeh.. rafa won 2 slams in 2019 and ended year at #1. What happened when he faced roger in 19 wimbledon? He was crushed….

but then roger faced the goat in finals and it was a different result
 

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MikeOne was making the rounds on tennis forums before you even knew tennis forums existed..
...and making a lot of the same arguments. Only now really rarely. Small blessings.
 
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