The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

[Federberg]

^ditto. There comes a point where it's just another form of arrogance

 

[Kieran]

I never really bought into Nadal's fake humility...

They all fake humility. I don't think you can be one of these all-time great champions like Fedal, or Djokovic, and accomodate the belief that you can be the best in the world and beat Federer at Wimbledon, or Nadal at Paris, or Novak in Oz, alongside actual humility. It requires arrogance, almost, to function at that level, to dare to believe you'll win against players who have equally great records.

I remember John Newcombe was courtside at a Davis Cup match between Sampras and Phillippoussis and what impressed him most about Pete, apart from his aggressive game, was his peachy clean arrogance and lion-like dominance of the whole court: not just of his opponent, but everybody there deferred to him and waited on him while he moved the game along at his own pace. Newcombe called it arrogance, but he said it with admiration, because it showed Sampras supreme confidence, and this transmitted itself to his opponent in an intimidating way, but it also extended to the linespeople and umpire, ballkids, etc.

What it really was, in effect, was control, and I've seen it with Pete a lot of times, once to the extent of causing Agassi to swerve to avoid him at a change of ends face-off. I don't think any of them can be really humble, but then, they have to present themselves a certain way for interviews. You don't want to give a hostage to fortune, by stating, oh I'm only playing Ferrer next, he never beats me, I'm not overly concerned.

Recently I read an article about Roger, and his humblebrags. Sometimes I wish these guys would sometime come out, Ali-like, and totally call it loudly and with bravado, but they'd probably lose sponsorship, or cause themselves more hassle with fans when they play, or whatever...

 

[DarthFed]

I never really bought into Nadal's fake humility...

And I thought I was the only one who saw that from the start :clap

 

[kskate2]

I never really bought into Nadal's fake humility...

I've never understood it either, but whatever you need to do to psych yourself out by any legal means necessary.

 

[tented]

If you read Rafa's book, you'll understand the lengths to which Toni went to enforce this mindset ever since Rafa could walk practically. He was constantly doing things to bring Rafa down to earth, and make sure he didn't think of himself as anything special.

 

[Moxie]

I never really bought into Nadal's fake humility...

I've never understood it either, but whatever you need to do to psych yourself out by any legal means necessary.

Kieran probably has the best answer to this comment, but there is an aspect also of how he was raised. Toni has never let Rafa get ahead of himself or believe his press. There are a fair few younger players who could do with a dose of that. For Nadal, it keeps him working hard. As you say: whatever works for you. Obviously, at times his downplaying of his chances has strained credulity, (though it no longer does,) and irritated those who are already inclined to dislike everything he does. He doesn't talk himself up, but he does express his doubts and fears. Is it over-sharing? Sometimes. But it seems to me of a piece with who he is. Same as Roger saying things that seem arrogant to some, justifiably frank to others. Different strokes.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I never really bought into Nadal's fake humility...

One would need to have 1000,000 IQ to not buy his humility, No!

 

[Moxie]

I never really bought into Nadal's fake humility...

One would need to have 1000,000 IQ to not buy his humility, No!

It's not an IQ issue, it's a sensitivity one. And if you had a better IQ, you might get the finer points. Otherwise, you might be left on that sad raft, adrift in the cynical conviction that self-effacement is always self-serving.

 

[the AntiPusher]

For Rafa, this kind of plain speaking works cathartically, almost. Kinda like his book, sleeping with the lights on and the teddy bear close at hand. It seems to work for him, discussing his fears. Never understood it myself, either...

Maybe that's what interesting about Rafa is he is a different sort of guy. You would think that he would be a very cocky SOB but he is humble somewhat and too brutally honest which is very unique for an athlete of his caliber. As you say, it seems to work for him and I am also am not down with him letting others know his fears.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Rafa's humility is not natural and learned and coached by his team. In 2006, I remember a
distinct interview before RG in 2006 in which Rafa said there is no way that Roger can beat me in RG.
He said, if he (Fed) wanted to beat me, he could have beat me in Dubai, he did not; if he wanted to beat me, he could have beat me in Rome, he did not; there is no way that he is going to beat
me in RG (Of course, he backed up his talk by walking the walk).

I have already mentioned this before in this forum. But, unfortunately I cannot provide
a link to that interview as it is so long ago. But, I listened to the above statements made
in Rafa's own voice on NPR while driving somewhere in 2006.

 

[Fiero425]

Rafa's humility is not natural and learned and coached by his team. In 2006, I remember a
distinct interview before RG in 2006 in which Rafa said there is no way that Roger can beat me in RG.
He said, if he (Fed) wanted to beat me, he could have beat me in Dubai, he did not; if he wanted to beat me, he could have beat me in Rome, he did not; there is no way that he is going to beat
me in RG (Of course, he backed up his talk by walking the walk).

I have already mentioned this before in this forum. But, unfortunately I cannot provide
a link to that interview as it is so long ago. But, I listened to the above statements made
in Rafa's own voice on NPR while driving somewhere in 2006.

Everyone knows I'm no fan of Rafa's, but I'm not going to hold a kid responsible for something he said almost 10 years ago! That's silly and we wouldn't want to be held to that standard! He's no saint, but taking this comment now as something meaningful makes no sense! :nono uzzled :cover

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rafa's humility is not natural and learned and coached by his team. In 2006, I remember a
distinct interview before RG in 2006 in which Rafa said there is no way that Roger can beat me in RG.
He said, if he (Fed) wanted to beat me, he could have beat me in Dubai, he did not; if he wanted to beat me, he could have beat me in Rome, he did not; there is no way that he is going to beat
me in RG (Of course, he backed up his talk by walking the walk).

I have already mentioned this before in this forum. But, unfortunately I cannot provide
a link to that interview as it is so long ago. But, I listened to the above statements made
in Rafa's own voice on NPR while driving somewhere in 2006.

Everyone knows I'm no fan of Rafa's, but I'm not going to hold a kid responsible for something he said almost 10 years ago! That's silly and we wouldn't want to be held to that standard! He's no saint, but taking this comment now as something meaningful makes no sense! :nono uzzled :cover

Thank God there are some not so petty posters on this board.. Good grief GSM, These are competitive athletes, why shouldn't a player feel that he is superior over another player on his best surface. Give the dude a break. If Fed said that about Roddick, not a damn thing would be said. All this is about the number 14. If Rafa had only 6-8 slams , all this antiRafa crap would pretty much be dormant. If Djoker starts to get in the double digits in grand slam titles, then all antiRafa Fed fans will switch there dislike over to him, IMO. Although we all know that I am no fan on most of the anti Rafa posters, However..Great post Fiero

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Rafa's humility is not natural and learned and coached by his team. In 2006, I remember a
distinct interview before RG in 2006 in which Rafa said there is no way that Roger can beat me in RG.
He said, if he (Fed) wanted to beat me, he could have beat me in Dubai, he did not; if he wanted to beat me, he could have beat me in Rome, he did not; there is no way that he is going to beat
me in RG (Of course, he backed up his talk by walking the walk).

I have already mentioned this before in this forum. But, unfortunately I cannot provide
a link to that interview as it is so long ago. But, I listened to the above statements made
in Rafa's own voice on NPR while driving somewhere in 2006.

Everyone knows I'm no fan of Rafa's, but I'm not going to hold a kid responsible for something he said almost 10 years ago! That's silly and we wouldn't want to be held to that standard! He's no saint, but taking this comment now as something meaningful makes no sense! :nono uzzled :cover

Thank God there are some not so petty posters on this board.. Good grief GSM, These are competitive athletes, why shouldn't a player feel that he is superior over another player on his best surface. Give the dude a break. If Fed said that about Roddick, not a damn thing would be said. All this is about the number 14. If Rafa had only 6-8 slams , all this antiRafa crap would pretty much be dormant. If Djoker starts to get in the double digits in grand slam titles, then all antiRafa Fed fans will switch there dislike over to him, IMO. Although we all know that I am no fan on most of the anti Rafa posters, However..Great post Fiero

Both of you misunderstood my post. I don't have anything against Rafa saying what he said
in 2006. In fact, I like that. The only reason that I brought it up now is to show that Rafa's humility
is not a "natural state" for him, but he learned and/or was coached to be humble.

On the otherhand, I always like Rafa's plain-spokenness and I do think it is a "natural state"
for him, even though sometime it may not even be in his own best interests (See Serena's coach
Partick's comments on Rafa's admission of his lack of confidence recently).

You are wrong in simply calling my post as a mere "Anti-Rafa" post. I was analyzing the
transformation of Rafa's pressers and statements, that is all.

 

[Fiero425]

Everyone knows I'm no fan of Rafa's, but I'm not going to hold a kid responsible for something he said almost 10 years ago! That's silly and we wouldn't want to be held to that standard! He's no saint, but taking this comment now as something meaningful makes no sense! :nono uzzled :cover

Thank God there are some not so petty posters on this board.. Good grief GSM, These are competitive athletes, why shouldn't a player feel that he is superior over another player on his best surface. Give the dude a break. If Fed said that about Roddick, not a damn thing would be said. All this is about the number 14. If Rafa had only 6-8 slams , all this antiRafa crap would pretty much be dormant. If Djoker starts to get in the double digits in grand slam titles, then all antiRafa Fed fans will switch there dislike over to him, IMO. Although we all know that I am no fan on most of the anti Rafa posters, However..Great post Fiero

Both of you misunderstood my post. I don't have anything against Rafa saying what he said
in 2006. In fact, I like that. The only reason that I brought it up now is to show that Rafa's humility
is not a "natural state" for him, but he learned and/or was coached to be humble.

On the otherhand, I always like Rafa's plain-spokenness and I do think it is a "natural state"
for him, even though sometime it may not even be in his own best interests (See Serena's coach
Partick's comments on Rafa's admission of his lack of confidence recently).

You are wrong in simply calling my post as a mere "Anti-Rafa" post. I was analyzing the
transformation of Rafa's pressers and statements, that is all.

All the top stars are self-deprecating; goes with the territory! Even if they hate each other's guts, they ALWAYS try to keep it humble least they get boo's! McEnroe and Connors had no love lost, but they never went at each other during an awards' ceremony, always stating "they're" both GREAT Champion! It's a no win situation; we complain either way if they're honest or give canned answers to questions! :nono

 

[tented]

McEnroe and Connors had no love lost, but they never went at each other during an awards' ceremony, always stating "they're" both GREAT Champion!

Why wait, when you can do it during the match?

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYYUtb4GUHE[/video]

 

[Fiero425]

McEnroe and Connors had no love lost, but they never went at each other during an awards' ceremony, always stating "they're" both GREAT Champion!

Why wait, when you can do it during the match?

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYYUtb4GUHE[/video]

That was an exhibition; and I still remember taping it to Beta format when I still lived in Chicago! IIRC, both players even left the court a couple times in a huff before being "begged" to come back! This may have gone 5 or 6 hours! It's been over 30 years and I barely remember it happening except I had just bought the video recorder from a friend! It was a real novelty at the time to record programs to watch later; believe it or not! :angel: :dodgy: :eyepop

 

[tented]

Everyone knows I'm no fan of Rafa's, but I'm not going to hold a kid responsible for something he said almost 10 years ago! That's silly and we wouldn't want to be held to that standard! He's no saint, but taking this comment now as something meaningful makes no sense! :nono uzzled :cover

Thank God there are some not so petty posters on this board.. Good grief GSM, These are competitive athletes, why shouldn't a player feel that he is superior over another player on his best surface. Give the dude a break. If Fed said that about Roddick, not a damn thing would be said. All this is about the number 14. If Rafa had only 6-8 slams , all this antiRafa crap would pretty much be dormant. If Djoker starts to get in the double digits in grand slam titles, then all antiRafa Fed fans will switch there dislike over to him, IMO. Although we all know that I am no fan on most of the anti Rafa posters, However..Great post Fiero

Both of you misunderstood my post. I don't have anything against Rafa saying what he said
in 2006. In fact, I like that. The only reason that I brought it up now is to show that Rafa's humility
is not a "natural state" for him, but he learned and/or was coached to be humble.

I get your point, but "humility" isn't a "natural state" for anyone. That's not hard-wired into humans at birth, so everyone would need to learn such behavior.

Also, even if Rafa did say those things nearly a decade ago, that's one example, out of how many interviews over the years? I can't think of any situation in which I would use someone doing something once out of several hundred (if not thousand) times as proof that the other times were the aberrant examples.

 

[tented]

McEnroe and Connors had no love lost, but they never went at each other during an awards' ceremony, always stating "they're" both GREAT Champion!

Why wait, when you can do it during the match?

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYYUtb4GUHE[/video]

That was an exhibition ...

I know. It was posted as a joke, hence the "wink" emoticon.

But there are examples of them having less than pleasant exchanges during actual matches. I just didn't feel like combing through YouTube to find them.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Everyone knows I'm no fan of Rafa's, but I'm not going to hold a kid responsible for something he said almost 10 years ago! That's silly and we wouldn't want to be held to that standard! He's no saint, but taking this comment now as something meaningful makes no sense! :nono uzzled :cover

Thank God there are some not so petty posters on this board.. Good grief GSM, These are competitive athletes, why shouldn't a player feel that he is superior over another player on his best surface. Give the dude a break. If Fed said that about Roddick, not a damn thing would be said. All this is about the number 14. If Rafa had only 6-8 slams , all this antiRafa crap would pretty much be dormant. If Djoker starts to get in the double digits in grand slam titles, then all antiRafa Fed fans will switch there dislike over to him, IMO. Although we all know that I am no fan on most of the anti Rafa posters, However..Great post Fiero

Both of you misunderstood my post. I don't have anything against Rafa saying what he said
in 2006. In fact, I like that. The only reason that I brought it up now is to show that Rafa's humility
is not a "natural state" for him, but he learned and/or was coached to be humble.

On the otherhand, I always like Rafa's plain-spokenness and I do think it is a "natural state"
for him, even though sometime it may not even be in his own best interests (See Serena's coach
Partick's comments on Rafa's admission of his lack of confidence recently).

You are wrong in simply calling my post as a mere "Anti-Rafa" post. I was analyzing the
transformation of Rafa's pressers and statements, that is all.

I spoke of the antiRafa posts in general.. This guy is the only player who is crucified for everything he says,does or picks at.:laydownlaughing .. Djoker screams sexual obscenities at the fans a few months ago .. nothing was said.. Let Rafa say the same thing, it would make the 5 or 6 pm news headliner. Its all about the current number 14, again if Rafa was at 6-8 gs titles, this would be a different climate.

 

[Fiero425]

Thank God there are some not so petty posters on this board.. Good grief GSM, These are competitive athletes, why shouldn't a player feel that he is superior over another player on his best surface. Give the dude a break. If Fed said that about Roddick, not a damn thing would be said. All this is about the number 14. If Rafa had only 6-8 slams , all this antiRafa crap would pretty much be dormant. If Djoker starts to get in the double digits in grand slam titles, then all antiRafa Fed fans will switch there dislike over to him, IMO. Although we all know that I am no fan on most of the anti Rafa posters, However..Great post Fiero

Both of you misunderstood my post. I don't have anything against Rafa saying what he said
in 2006. In fact, I like that. The only reason that I brought it up now is to show that Rafa's humility
is not a "natural state" for him, but he learned and/or was coached to be humble.

I get your point, but "humility" isn't a "natural state" for anyone. That's not hard-wired into humans at birth, so everyone would need to learn such behavior.

Also, even if Rafa did say those things nearly a decade ago, that's one example, out of how many interviews over the years? I can't think of any situation in which I would use someone doing something once out of several hundred (if not thousand) times as proof that the other times were the aberrant examples.

This is why I'm not in favor of even listening to players in such interviews! Besides it being a "no win" situation, it can only disappoint some of the fans! Martina Nav. paid a huge price being honest about the conservative movement 30 years ago, criticizing Reagan in particular! We give lip service to "free speech," but if we don't like it, Boo's will rain down on a speaker of truth! :cover