The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[Kieran]

I"m a bit confused. What exactly do you want? An actual asterisk in the record books? Should we give all of Graf's post-stabbing Slam trophies to Seles? I'm joking, of course, but I just don't really get the point. Anything we might have to say about it is speculative. Speculate away, but it won't change how things ended up.

Of course it won’t change the way things ended up, but they only ended up so well for Fraulein Forehand because Monica Seles was almost executed on a tennis court by a mad German…

 

[El Dude]

Borg’s “What if” is based upon his decision to take a temporary sabbatical, from some accounts he was tired/burned out on tennis, Mac had taken his status as top player away, beating him in their last 2 Slam finals, tennis politics intervened, etc, etc. that sabbatical morphed pretty beyond that.

Seles “What if” is based on a player who won the most Slams as a teenager, had just won her 3rd Oz title besting Graff, indeed had bested Graff in 3 out of their last 4 Slam encounters, had made 8 straight Slam finals she entered & was clearly & by far the dominant # 1 player in the world. Again by far.

A Graff fanatic stabbed her courtside to remove her from the game and specifically have Graff reclaim # 1 status in the game.

Again, the two “ what ifs” are not comparable. Borg “contributed” to his demise, Seles did not.

However i concede both camps will never see eye to eye on this topic. You believe there is absolutely no asterisk in Graff’s 22 Slams, I believe there is an unprecedented huge asterisk on that record.

So we agree to disagree.

Well, you're comparing them in a way that I never did. All I said is that they are the big What Ifs of tennis - Borg for the ATP, Seles in the WTA. Seems pretty obvious and uncontroversial. I never compared the specifics. So you are arguing with a phantom of your own creation.

I don't know what you mean by "camps." Again, who are you arguing with? What I've actually said or some shibboleth you've created of a rabid Graf fan? (I'm not even a "Graf fan"...lol).

But yeah, this is tedious, so let's move on.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

New Career Highs On ATP Top 100, Monday 3rd February,

47. Mensik
92. Bellucci
98. Fonseca

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

If you want to bring up the what-if with Seles, then I can certainly talk about a hypothetical Jennifer Capriati, who doesn't go off the rails in 1993. I know you all want to talk about Graf and Seles, but Capriati was even younger than Seles. I'm more mad about losing the Capriati-Seles rivalry than I am about Graf-Seles. But the thing I wonder most about is if an in-form Seles and/or Capriati would have thwarted the rise of Martina Hingis. Remember, Graf was still winning all the slams in 1995 and 1996. She was injured in 1997, and with neither Seles nor Capriati at their best, Hingis just took the game by storm. It's also interesting to note that Hingis (at ages 18-21) lost slams to Graf in 1999 and Capriati in 2001 and 2002.

 

[Fiero425]

If you want to bring up the what-if with Seles, then I can certainly talk about a hypothetical Jennifer Capriati, who doesn't go off the rails in 1993. I know you all want to talk about Graf and Seles, but Capriati was even younger than Seles. I'm more mad about losing the Capriati-Seles rivalry than I am about Graf-Seles. But the thing I wonder most about is if an in-form Seles and/or Capriati would have thwarted the rise of Martina Hingis. Remember, Graf was still winning all the slams in 1995 and 1996. She was injured in 1997, and with neither Seles nor Capriati at their best, Hingis just took the game by storm. It's also interesting to note that Hingis (at ages 18-21) lost slams to Graf in 1999 and Capriati in 2001 and 2002.

It was a strange era back then in the 90's; sorta what was going on w/ the men in the 2000's! You had Martina Navratilova aging out, Steffi was having personal issues behind the scenes resulting in some bad losses to players like Amanda Coetzer & Mary Pearce, & tennis was still trying to get over stabbing of Monica Seles! The women didn't help by voicing opposition to her holding her position at #1! Women, mon Dieu they're screwed up! See how they treated Caitland Clark who brought viewers & publicity to the WNBA? They hated her & were so jealous of her notoriety! It was pathetic! Hingis & her mother timed her intro perfectly when the tour was very weak & rudderless w/ Seles still trying to get back! Martina didn't have a powerful serve or groundstrokes, but she was quite entertaining to watch as she played chessboard tennis from an age long since passed! She dominated Seles & Venus Wms. even though more powerful! She even defeated Lindsey Davenporte early, but it all came to an end w/ Capriati stopping her "down under!" Her doubles' play was still top notch, but her ego ran her out of the game until she returned to dominate doubles yet again!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

If you want to bring up the what-if with Seles, then I can certainly talk about a hypothetical Jennifer Capriati, who doesn't go off the rails in 1993. I know you all want to talk about Graf and Seles, but Capriati was even younger than Seles. I'm more mad about losing the Capriati-Seles rivalry than I am about Graf-Seles. But the thing I wonder most about is if an in-form Seles and/or Capriati would have thwarted the rise of Martina Hingis. Remember, Graf was still winning all the slams in 1995 and 1996. She was injured in 1997, and with neither Seles nor Capriati at their best, Hingis just took the game by storm. It's also interesting to note that Hingis (at ages 18-21) lost slams to Graf in 1999 and Capriati in 2001 and 2002.

Honestly Phil ? I think we have had enough talk regarding Seles and what ifs?
I am not into Hypotheticals Full Stop! there is no outcome just full of Woulda Coulda Shoulda, which bares no actual outcomes at all
BTW this is a ranking thread for men if I remembered correctly?
If you want to discuss Seles and Capriati go over to the WTA News Post instead. Thanks.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

New ATP Top Ten, Monday 10th February,

1. Sinner 11,830 points
2. Zverev 8,135
3. Alcaraz 7,510
4. Fritz 5,100
5. Ruud 4,480
6. De Minaur 4, 015 ( +2) equaled career high ranking
7. Djokovic 3,900 (-1)
8. Medvedev 3,830 (-1)
9. Paul 3,445
10.Rublev 3,270

New Career Highs On ATP Top 100,
6. De Minaur equaled career high ranking
45. Mensik
68. Bellucci
87. Carabelli