The Rankings Thread (ATP)

[Kieran]

Maybe you should learn have to read. Oh wait, no, you know how to read. I'm pretty sure you read the [#243] post of this thread. So what is it you are trying to do?

edit post #243 by nehmeth to which I was responding

Go back to Moxie's post about the best player being subjective, etc. We have been discussing who's the best player this year since then. Broken then asked if anyone wanted to make a case for Novak being the best player.

Now, I don't mind the odd show of pedantics, but I think most players would take Rafa's results this year ahead of Nole's, regardless of who ends up #1.

Today, hopefully, it'll be a closed book...

So let me get this straight. You want Rafa to have the results he had this year AND the YE no 1 despite the fact that he accumulated less points this year. So we play by the rules if it is beneficial to Rafa, but if it isn't you want him to get the trophies nonetheless.

Fantastic. Maybe if Rafa loses to Novak at the AO final, Novak should give him the trophy too, because he just played 'better'.

No. Read it again.

If Nole finishes the year #1, I'd prefer Rafa's results. And next year, regardless of the ranking, I'd be happy with Rafa's results if they were equal to this year. He'd be up to fifteen slams then...

 

[Denis]

Maybe you should learn have to read. Oh wait, no, you know how to read. I'm pretty sure you read the [#243] post of this thread. So what is it you are trying to do?

edit post #243 by nehmeth to which I was responding

Go back to Moxie's post about the best player being subjective, etc. We have been discussing who's the best player this year since then. Broken then asked if anyone wanted to make a case for Novak being the best player.

Now, I don't mind the odd show of pedantics, but I think most players would take Rafa's results this year ahead of Nole's, regardless of who ends up #1.

Today, hopefully, it'll be a closed book...

So let me get this straight. You want Rafa to have the results he had this year AND the YE no 1 despite the fact that he accumulated less points this year. So we play by the rules if it is beneficial to Rafa, but if it isn't you want him to get the trophies nonetheless.

Fantastic. Maybe if Rafa loses to Novak at the AO final, Novak should give him the trophy too, because he just played 'better'.

No. Read it again.

If Nole finishes the year #1, I'd prefer Rafa's results. And next year, regardless of the ranking, I'd be happy with Rafa's results if they were equal to this year. He'd be up to fifteen slams then...

It really is impossible for you to say that Novak should get the YE no 1 trophy if he gets more points than Rafa isn't it? Well good luck with that. It reflects badly on you.

 

[brokenshoelace]

It's the same as saying that Novak was the better player this year at the semis at RG. Hence, he should have gotten the FO title.

No it's not.

I'm not saying Nadal's the best player this year because of some arbitrary assessment of his level. I'm saying he's been the better player because he's won more (ie based on results). For the record, no way was Novak the better player at the semis of the RG this year, unless I was watching a different match.

Nadal won the most slams, the most Masters 1000 events, and actually leads Djokovic in the H2H this year. So how was he not better?

Keep in mind, the only reason the race is remotely close is because Nadal missed the Australian Open. But yeah, he's been the best player this year, without a shadow of a doubt. If Novak gets the number 1 ranking, it's deserved. That makes him the number 1 ranked player in the world this year...just not the best.

 

[Kieran]

Maybe you should learn have to read. Oh wait, no, you know how to read. I'm pretty sure you read the [#243] post of this thread. So what is it you are trying to do?

edit post #243 by nehmeth to which I was responding

Go back to Moxie's post about the best player being subjective, etc. We have been discussing who's the best player this year since then. Broken then asked if anyone wanted to make a case for Novak being the best player.

Now, I don't mind the odd show of pedantics, but I think most players would take Rafa's results this year ahead of Nole's, regardless of who ends up #1.

Today, hopefully, it'll be a closed book...

So let me get this straight. You want Rafa to have the results he had this year AND the YE no 1 despite the fact that he accumulated less points this year. So we play by the rules if it is beneficial to Rafa, but if it isn't you want him to get the trophies nonetheless.

Fantastic. Maybe if Rafa loses to Novak at the AO final, Novak should give him the trophy too, because he just played 'better'.

No. Read it again.

If Nole finishes the year #1, I'd prefer Rafa's results. And next year, regardless of the ranking, I'd be happy with Rafa's results if they were equal to this year. He'd be up to fifteen slams then...

It really is impossible for you to say that Novak should get the YE no 1 trophy if he gets more points than Rafa isn't it? Well good luck with that. It reflects badly on you.

Didn't say that either.

You know, for your stubbornness I almost hope Nole gets it so I can congratulate you...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Anyway, in a few hours, Nadal will get done with Wawrinka and we can mercifully put this debate to rest.

 

[Kieran]

Hopefully. But it's great it's still an active race. When was the last time it came to this? 2000, when Kuerten pipped Safin?

 

[Denis]

It's the same as saying that Novak was the better player this year at the semis at RG. Hence, he should have gotten the FO title.

No it's not.

I'm not saying Nadal's the best player this year because of some arbitrary assessment of his level. I'm saying he's been the better player because he's won more (ie based on results). For the record, no way was Novak the better player at the semis of the RG this year, unless I was watching a different match.

Nadal won the most slams, the most Masters 1000 events, and actually leads Djokovic in the H2H this year. So how was he not better?

Keep in mind, the only reason the race is remotely close is because Nadal missed the Australian Open. But yeah, he's been the best player this year, without a shadow of a doubt. If Novak gets the number 1 ranking, it's deserved. That makes him the number 1 ranked player in the world this year...just not the best.

Two different things. I never said that Rafa did not have a better year. I would happily trade results this year with those of Nole.

My point is: if Nole gets more points he should get the YE no 1 trophy. Kieran and a lot of other posters are suggesting this trophy should go to Rafa. Nevermind Novak got more points, Rafa should get the trophy nonetheless. It is the exact same logic as saying that Federer should get half of Rafa's RG trophies because his game is prettier, despite that his results do not substantiate that claim (as Federer has lost multiple best out of 5 finals at RG against Nadal).

 

[Kieran]

Again Denisovich, I didn't say that. I said regardless of who gets #1, I'd prefer Rafa's results. I asked if you'd prefer them and now I see you would. See? We agree?

 

[Denis]

Yet you don't have the courage to say that Novak should get the year end no 1 if he gets more points this year.

Typical.

 

[Kieran]

Yet you don't have the courage to say that Novak should get the year end no 1 if he gets more points this year.

Typical.

Don't be silly, son. I never denied that. I never even discussed it. I was discussing the best player of the year. Try keep up!

 

[Denis]

So you agree Novak deserves to get the year end no 1 if he gets more points?

 

[Kieran]

So you agree Novak deserves to get the year end no 1 if he gets more points?

Of course he should. I never denied it. Not once. But he won't be the best player of the year, regardless of that. That's what we've been discussing, unless we're at cross purposes here.

Anyway, if Nole gets it, I'll be the first to congratulate you!

 

[Denis]

Ok thanks for conceding that, you said a lot that contradicted that before.

All this discussion was unnessary if Nadal had given his best against Ferrer last Saturday.

 

[nehmeth]

Ok thanks for conceding that, you said a lot that contradicted that before.

All this discussion was unnessary if Nadal had given his best against Ferrer last Saturday.

If Rafa had won Saturday, and lost Sunday (not saying he would have), then would his win yesterday have sealed the year end #1?

 

[Didi]

Denis, let me give you a warmhearted advice - do never challenge the courage of an Irish dude. I did it once in an Irish pub in Sligo. He looked too old, too grumpy, I thought it was going to be a walk in the park to impress my wife, yet he did outdrink me really badly with 10+ Smithwick’s to 3 without turning a hair and still had plenty of energy left in the tank to make a complete fool of me in darts. :snigger

 

[Kieran]

Ok thanks for conceding that, you said a lot that contradicted that before.

Didn't contradict it even once.

I said regardless of who ends up #1, Rafa is the best player this year. That's what the discussion was: the best player this year. Keep replying by all means, but try reading posts too...

 

[Denis]

Ok thanks for conceding that, you said a lot that contradicted that before.

All this discussion was unnessary if Nadal had given his best against Ferrer last Saturday.

If Rafa had won Saturday, and lost Sunday (not saying he would have), then would his win yesterday have sealed the year end #1?

Yup. Rafa would have been no 1. Prize ceremony and all I bet.

 

[huntingyou]

no more YE#1 discussion......it was a done deal after the UO but sometimes we like to talk what IF stuff.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Anyway, in a few hours, Nadal will get done with Wawrinka and we can mercifully put this debate to rest.

Praise be Jesus.

 

[Denis]

You have to fight until the very end. Sorry BS, but I am not conceding anything until it actually happens.

Congrats on the YE no 1. It was a very good year for Rafa.