The Greatest Female Tennis Player of All Time

[Front242]

here's some data...

WTA singles titles...

1. / Martina Navratilova 167[1]
2. Chris Evert 157
3. Steffi Graf 107
4. Evonne Goolagong 84
5. Serena Williams 72
6. Billie Jean King 67
7. Lindsay Davenport 55
8. / Monica Seles 53
9. Venus Williams 49
10. Martina Hingis 43
10. Justine Henin 43

Looking at Martina, she won 18 singles slams, 31 doubles slams, 10 mixed slams. A total of 59 slam titles. That's crazy..

Laughable imo that people call Serena the GOAT. Likewise, hands down I've always considered it to be Navratilova.

 

[atttomole]

Not sure if doubles titles count so much. Before Serena, Graf was the GOAT for me because of the singles titles.

 

[monfed]

Laughable imo that people call Serena the GOAT. Likewise, hands down I've always considered it to be Navratilova.

How about Graf?

 

[lob]

How about Graf?

You can check on the WTA board! Just messing with you..

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk

 

[monfed]

You can check on the WTA board! Just messing with you..

Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk

I checked and it said #1 is Graf because of her golden slam.

 

[Moxie]

here's some data...

WTA singles titles...

1. / Martina Navratilova 167[1]
2. Chris Evert 157
3. Steffi Graf 107
4. Evonne Goolagong 84
5. Serena Williams 72
6. Billie Jean King 67
7. Lindsay Davenport 55
8. / Monica Seles 53
9. Venus Williams 49
10. Martina Hingis 43
10. Justine Henin 43

Looking at Martina, she won 18 singles slams, 31 doubles slams, 10 mixed slams. A total of 59 slam titles. That's crazy..

It's interesting to see by how much Martina and Chrissy beat the field on this stat. I'm willing to say that it has something to do with their rivalry. They have both said as much. And not for nothin': I think it was Evert in the "Strokes of Genius" doc. who said that she thinks that Rafa has kept Roger in the game. Having each other, and Djokovic, in the same era makes them keep reaching higher, one imagines. (And lots of posters here do say the same.)

Not trying to derail the thread, but these general tournament threads do become a bit "lame-duck" and catch-alls, once the QFs threads, etc. are up, as they are now, so I thought it was ok to branch out.

 

[Busted]

Not sure if doubles titles count so much. Before Serena, Graf was the GOAT for me because of the singles titles.

Not gonna lie...Steffi's still my female GOAT. I absolutely cackled at Chris Evert's jealousy when Steffi retired and Evert snootily said it would never last because Steffi was only 2 Slams away from tying Margaret Court so she expected her to be back in 2000. Been 18 years and I guess Chrissie is still waiting. We all know Steffi could have probably won 4 or 5 more. She had a ton of injuries in '97-98 and still came back and made the final in 2 or the 3 Slams she played in 1999 and won 1 of those. I still remember poor old Bud Collins' face when Steffi was leaving the court at Wimbledon after losing to Davenport and stopped for her interview and he asked her if she'd be back next year (2000) and she said no, she didn't think so. I thought somebody had kicked Bud's puppy.... LOL! Bud's love for Steffi was cute...and nowhere near as icky as Dick Enberg's dirty-old-man lusting...

 

[Front242]

How about Graf?

Sorry, never got the chance to reply yesterday. Imo Graf wouldn't have come anywhere near her slam total if not for Monica Seles being stabbed so it remains Navratilova for me.

 

[Jelenafan]

It boils down to Serena and Steffi.

I think Serena is the GOATess because I also take into account longevity; so far she’s had a span of 18 years from first Major win (1999) to last (2017). Ditto 13/14 year span where she’s been ranked no. 1 or was the YE top ranked player.

Her 23 (so far) Majors were all in the Open era; whereas Margaret Court is overrated because most of her 11 Australians were a) against mainly subpar Aussie contemporaries b) in the amateur era and c) most top players did not play the tournament on a regular basis. ( BJK, Maria Bueno, even Chris Evert in her salad days)


I also think Chris Evert is underrated simply because she didn’t play the French Open 3 straight years (1976-78) when she was # 1 and undefeated on clay ( 1973-1978) and as mentioned skipped the AO during that same period . Ergo she probably would have had at least as many French as Martina had Wimbledon’s.

 

[Jelenafan]

She had a ton of injuries in '97-98 and still came back and made the final in 2 or the 3 Slams she played in 1999 and won 1 of those....

My spin on Steffi is that she patched up her body for one more run and she had nothing more physically left. I remember that ‘99 Wimbledon finals with Lindsay and she just seemed *spent*, almost exhausted.

It would have been fun had she gone Mano a mano with Serena when she started her winning ways, or even Venus, two players who covered the court arguably as well as she did.

 

[kskate2]

My spin on Steffi is that she patched up her body for one more run and she had nothing more physically left. I remember that ‘99 Wimbledon finals with Lindsay and she just seemed *spent*, almost exhausted.

It would have been fun had she gone Mano a mano with Serena when she started her winning ways, or even Venus, two players who covered the court arguably as well as she did.

They played a couple of times when Serena was a teenager and I believe they split those matches. They used to be on YouTube. Not sure they are still out there.

 

[Jelenafan]

They played a couple of times when Serena was a teenager and I believe they split those matches. They used to be on YouTube. Not sure they are still out there.

Yup, but Steffi retired before Serena's breakthrough USO win in 1999 and Venus' 2000 Wimbledon and USO victories.

I felt bad about Steffi having the anvil around her neck of that lunatic asshole Gunter Parche but regardless it's part of her legacy that that piece of crap stabbed her main rival to disable her and let Graff regain top status in the womens game. Sadly, it worked.

 

[tented]

A friend sent me this chart yesterday of the GOAT of women’s tennis:

Graf tops the list because she’s No. 1 in 3 out of 7 categories. I see what he’s done: not allowing just GS titles to dictate the GOAT. While there’s merit to that argument, I still can’t help but think it’s wrong not to have Serena as No. 1.

Thoughts?

 

[kskate2]

A friend sent me this chart yesterday of the GOAT of women’s tennis:

View attachment 7142

Graf tops the list because she’s No. 1 in 3 out of 7 categories. I see what he’s done: not allowing just GS titles to dictate the GOAT. While there’s merit to that argument, I still can’t help but think it’s wrong not to have Serena as No. 1.

Thoughts?

I agree it's bigger than just the slam race. But in all honesty, Serena got my vote when she won a slam at 35 carrying a baby. I'm sorry, but that's never been done and likely won't be done again.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

A friend sent me this chart yesterday of the GOAT of women’s tennis:

View attachment 7142

Graf tops the list because she’s No. 1 in 3 out of 7 categories. I see what he’s done: not allowing just GS titles to dictate the GOAT. While there’s merit to that argument, I still can’t help but think it’s wrong not to have Serena as No. 1.

Thoughts?

I am on the same page as Kskate with Serena winning a GS carrying a baby as it has never been done before..probably wont in the future

 

[Hailz]

My vote went to Serena and here is why.

#1. I have never seen any of those other players play a match live.
#2. Serena has won 23 Slams and there is a reason why that is weighed more than just the regular singles titles. The slams attract all the top players and to win those and as many as Serena did in her career is a huge accomplishment. Serena did play more years, but also not at the rate those other players played in tournaments. She was way more selective in playing tournaments. That should not be something that goes against her. What is to say that if Serena would have played at the rate those other 3 players played in tournaments that she wouldn't have accumulated a ton of other singles and doubles titles along the way.

Definitely my vote goes for Serena.

 

[Kieran]

I think if Martina had a whole era to herself without a great rival - as Serena did - she’d have won 25+ slams, but she had Chrissie at the start and Steffi at the end..

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

I will have to go with Martina Navratilova. Steffi Graf benefitted from having 2 of her rivals (Monica Seles and Jennifer Capriati) missing 2+ years. Seles was never the same, and Capriati didn't return to her early 90s level until after Graf retired. The fact that Capriati then beat Serena Williams with regularity in the early 2000s, when Serena was at her athletic prime, in my opinion puts Serena just a little bit below Navratilova.

 

[kskate2]

I will have to go with Martina Navratilova. Steffi Graf benefitted from having 2 of her rivals (Monica Seles and Jennifer Capriati) missing 2+ years. Seles was never the same, and Capriati didn't return to her early 90s level until after Graf retired. The fact that Capriati then beat Serena Williams with regularity in the early 2000s, when Serena was at her athletic prime, in my opinion puts Serena just a little bit below Navratilova.

But you understand tennis is about matchups, right? Because player A defeated player B, but couldn't beat player C doesn't necessarily make player C the better player. You have to look at the entire rivalry and their whole career when having a GOAT discussion. Martina may very well be your GOAT, but you can't push Serena down because she lost to Jenny from the block before she was a force. And while Jen had Serena's # early on, Serena turned the rivalry completely around at Miami in 2002 and beat Jen in all the future matches save the 04 USO QF that would eventually bring about Hawkeye.

 

[kskate2]

I think if Martina had a whole era to herself without a great rival - as Serena did - she’d have won 25+ slams, but she had Chrissie at the start and Steffi at the end..

I can see that, but while Serena didn't have that one rival because she played so long she did have to battle quite a few multi-slam winners and former #1s: Hingis, Vee, Lindsay, Kimmie, Pova and Justine