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ClayDeath

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this loss will be long forgotten after he captures another slam.

he was just terrible today but we sort of knew that from his match yesterday.

nadal was not moving well so that was the first issue. secondly he was returning horribly.


now that alone is enough to lose. you simply cannot win if you cant break.

lastly his backhand is a no show at wtf. he has little or no confidence in his ground game when he cannot trust his backhand wing.

I say he made it a little too easy for nole.
 

GameSetAndMath

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britbox said:
I really hope they keep it where it is and allow it to develop it's own identity and history. If they do move it again, I'd like to see it back at Madison Square Garden which is probably it's real spiritual home and stick with it.

Shunting it around doesn't do it much credit IMO.

I don't know. While I don't have anything against London O2 Arena, I like it
when they move it around every three years to different cities around the world.
This is the opinion that Novak has also. There is a big articles on tennis.com by
Tignor who feels the same way. The variety would make it interesting.

It appears that Fed does not want it to move and Nadal could not care about the
city as long as they change the surface.
 

Moxie

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britbox said:
I really hope they keep it where it is and allow it to develop it's own identity and history. If they do move it again, I'd like to see it back at Madison Square Garden which is probably it's real spiritual home and stick with it.

Shunting it around doesn't do it much credit IMO.

I'd be keen to see it back at MSG, for obvious reasons. :) I don't see, however, why moving it from year-to-year would spoil the brand. And since they've given a little air between it and the last MS of the year, why not change it around? It's wrong that London has 3 great tournaments (Queens being better for star-power than its ATP ranking, even with the bump,) when other great tennis cities have none, or fewer/lesser. Miami, Sao Paolo, Buenos Aires, Los Angeles, Tokyo? Why not?
 

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britbox said:
I really hope they keep it where it is and allow it to develop it's own identity and history. If they do move it again, I'd like to see it back at Madison Square Garden which is probably it's real spiritual home and stick with it.

Shunting it around doesn't do it much credit IMO.

I am again with you on this. I hope it stays in London forever. It has the charm and everything else. It is also the center of the world. The GSs and WTF should never move. USO desperately needs a roof but that's a work in progress so that's good news.

And the surfaces of these 5 tournaments should never change.

Hopefully Andy will gun for the WTF next year.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Moxie629 said:
britbox said:
I really hope they keep it where it is and allow it to develop it's own identity and history. If they do move it again, I'd like to see it back at Madison Square Garden which is probably it's real spiritual home and stick with it.

Shunting it around doesn't do it much credit IMO.

I'd be keen to see it back at MSG, for obvious reasons. :) I don't see, however, why moving it from year-to-year would spoil the brand. And since they've given a little air between it and the last MS of the year, why not change it around? It's wrong that London has 3 great tournaments (Queens being better for star-power than its ATP ranking, even with the bump,) when other great tennis cities have none, or fewer/lesser. Miami, Sao Paolo, Buenos Aires, Los Angeles, Tokyo? Why not?

It should not be moved every year. Then, the place will not have a vested interest in
making the event big. They should give a site at least 3 years.

But, I hope it is always held indoors. After all it is the culmination of the indoor season.
I don't care what surface it is on. That too can be rotated. But, is it possible to
have an indoor grass tournament?
 

Moxie

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GameSetAndMath said:
Moxie629 said:
britbox said:
I really hope they keep it where it is and allow it to develop it's own identity and history. If they do move it again, I'd like to see it back at Madison Square Garden which is probably it's real spiritual home and stick with it.

Shunting it around doesn't do it much credit IMO.

I'd be keen to see it back at MSG, for obvious reasons. :) I don't see, however, why moving it from year-to-year would spoil the brand. And since they've given a little air between it and the last MS of the year, why not change it around? It's wrong that London has 3 great tournaments (Queens being better for star-power than its ATP ranking, even with the bump,) when other great tennis cities have none, or fewer/lesser. Miami, Sao Paolo, Buenos Aires, Los Angeles, Tokyo? Why not?

It should not be moved every year. Then, the place will not have a vested interest in
making the event big. They should give a site at least 3 years.

But, I hope it is always held indoors. After all it is the culmination of the indoor season.
I don't care what surface it is on. That too can be rotated. But, is it possible to
have an indoor grass tournament?

I actually think the opposite: if a city only gets the event every 3-7 years, they are going to be hugely invested in it, more like an Olympics. Plus, you'll get a huge influx of people from the city and surrounding areas who never get to see that level of tennis in their backyard, or even close. (Did you miss Roger and Rafa being treated like the second-coming when they both made it to South America in the last year or so?)

I take your point that it's the culmination of the indoor season, but it's supposed to be the culmination of the year. If they wanted it to the the Year-End-Indoor-Championships, they would have called it that. If they want to take the best 8 players of the year, who have played each other across different surfaces, then they should vary the surfaces from year to year. I know this is the Nadal argument, but tell me how that's not more fair and interesting?
 

Iona16

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From the BBC. I've highlighted a few points. I have to say I don't think the surface should change. It's a long season and the penultimate tournament is in Paris. How many players would be happy to play Paris and then get on a flight to another continent for the WTF?

ATP World Tour Finals 2013: Is London right to remain home?

Tomas Berdych says walking into the O2 Arena is on a par with walking onto Wimbledon's Centre Court.

Stanislas Wawrinka, on his first appearance, has been beaming like a child who's arranged a daily delivery from Father Christmas.

And in the four years that London has so far hosted the World Tour Finals, more than one million fans have flooded into North Greenwich.

The Finals have embraced an atmospheric and futuristic home since 2009, and will continue to do so until at least 2015. But with the top two players in the world both indicating that it's time for a change, could London fall foul of the seven-year itch?

Novak Djokovic takes the view that it's time to spread the gospel elsewhere.

"Even though I think the O2 Arena does a fantastic job in organising the World Tour Finals, I still feel this sport is so global that it is just necessary for us to travel around the world and allow other cities and countries to have this privilege of organising such a strong tournament," he said in an interview with BBC Sport.

"It would promote it around the world, so in my opinion it shouldn't be held in one place for more than three years, or for less than two years. It would be even better if we get to be more creative with this tournament."

Rafael Nadal simply believes it's time to change the surface.

"I feel that I am unlucky," he said. "Since 2005, all the Masters (Cups - the previous name for the World Tour Finals) have been indoors on a surface that is not the best for me.

"I cannot find a better place to have a Masters than here, because the stadium is one of the best stadiums that I ever played in.

"But that doesn't mean the ATP cannot be a little bit more fair to all the players. We qualify on all the surfaces, so it would be great to change the surface every year."

Nadal knows he is unlikely to benefit from such a change, but he's doing it for his children - or for the next generation, as he prefers to put it.

History suggests that clay court stars of the future who are partial to a bit of sun on their backs are likely to be disappointed.

The tournament has only been staged outside on three occasions in its 44-year history: twice on hard courts in Houston in the early part of this century, and once on grass in Melbourne in 1974.

The elements conspire against outdoor events in tennis's key markets in November, and a switch back to clay after a run of indoor events at the end of the regular season would put further strain on weary bodies.

The argument for a switch of cities is much more persuasive.

In the formative years of the Masters Grand Prix, as it used to be called, the event moved on an annual basis.

Tokyo, Paris, Barcelona, Boston, Melbourne, Stockholm and Houston were the hosts in the first seven years, as four different continents got a taste of the action.

Rio de Janeiro was one of the disappointed parties when London's contract was extended by two years 12 months ago, so why shouldn't the ATP take their flagship event to fertile new ground?

They will do one day, but probably not for a while. There is no appetite to move the tournament just because London is perceived in some quarters to have had its fair share.

The Finals are a key revenue stream for the ATP, and London does a remarkable job in selling 17,500 seats for a large majority of the sessions.

It sits in a time zone which is very user-friendly for the bulk of the TV audience, and has created a fabulous experience for both players and spectators which any successor will have to convince it can match.

Nine of the world's top 10 currently hail from Europe - and Andy Murray is another of London's trump cards.

Other than Novak Djokovic, who was born just seven days later, only Juan Martin Del Potro is younger than Murray, who would hope to have at least another five years competing at the World Tour Finals.

Any bid from Argentina would be taken seriously, but only if they were able to generate sufficient revenue and crowds.

A venue in the United States would keep the accountants happy, but 21-year-old Jack Sock - at 91 in the world rankings - currently looks their best hope of providing a finalist in the years to come.

So London will be hard to knock off its perch - just as Madison Square Garden in New York was for 13 memorable years.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Yes, money talks. London surely is able to generate big money out of the event for
ATP. Hence, it probably will not be moved.

Look at what WTA did. They moved it to Singapore which pretty much has no
tradition of tennis, no players, no history, no nothing. Why did they give it to them.
Money talks.
 

Iona16

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GameSetAndMath said:
Yes, money talks. London surely is able to generate big money out of the event for
ATP. Hence, it probably will not be moved.

Look at what WTA did. They moved it to Singapore which pretty much has no
tradition of tennis, no players, no history, no nothing. Why did they give it to them.
Money talks.

Success also talks and London has been a success. I'm sure you'd also agree we do have history and tradition when it comes to tennis. :)
 

GameSetAndMath

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I do completely agree that London has tennis histroy and tradition. I also agree
that O2 is doing a great job and it is a big success. Moreover, they are generating
good revenue also.

The reason I want it to be moved is not because I was unhappy with London O2,
but becuase as a matter of principle I would like it to rotate around different cities,
with each city getting about three years.

All other ATP torunaments happen at the same place year after year. It would
be nice to have one tournament that does rotate.

However, I am against it getting moved every year, as a city need to be given
sometime to develop it and enjoy it after winning the right to host it.

As you pointed out, the time of the year favours the indoor setting. However,
that does not mean the surface cannot be changed. You can certainly have
indoor clay tournament. However, I do not know whether there exists an
indoor grass facility anywhere.
 

GameSetAndMath

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I vote for three years in indoor clay in Rio De Janeiro. After all, they would be
constructing nice facility for Olympics, might as well use it for three years for WTF.
Generating revenue should not be a problem given that the audience is tennis
starved.
 

Kieran

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Move it to Dublin. Seriously. Or anywhere that has no major tennis. Bring it to Moscow or Serbia. Or Norway.

Move it to Dublin, that's the best option. I'd be there and that's enough! :D
 

JesuslookslikeBorg

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Kieran said:
Move it to Dublin. Seriously. Or anywhere that has no major tennis. Bring it to Moscow or Serbia. Or Norway.

Move it to Dublin, that's the best option. I'd be there and that's enough! :D

maybe conor niland could make a comeback and..erm..qualify for the WTF and play when they are held in Dublin.
 

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Iona16 said:
Rafael Nadal simply believes it's time to change the surface.

"I feel that I am unlucky," he said. "Since 2005, all the Masters (Cups - the previous name for the World Tour Finals) have been indoors on a surface that is not the best for me.

"I cannot find a better place to have a Masters than here, because the stadium is one of the best stadiums that I ever played in.

"But that doesn't mean the ATP cannot be a little bit more fair to all the players. We qualify on all the surfaces, so it would be great to change the surface every year."

Nadal knows he is unlikely to benefit from such a change, but he's doing it for his children - or for the next generation, as he prefers to put it.

So Nadal basically wants all the surfaces to be tailored made just for him. That makes sense.

Anyway, the surface is just fine. He's just not a good indoor player and he might as well admit it. How many Indoor titles does he have so far? 2 and 1 of them was on clay and he won it this year. The other one goes way back to Madrid 2005.

ATP is not being unfair. They've done enough already.
 

Emma

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Who is this player?

3436850103_b38d826d6c_o.jpg
 

ClayDeath

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have no idea emma.


who is he? he looks tall even as a little kid.

is it milos from Canada?
 

Emma

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Clay Death said:
have no idea emma.


who is he? he looks tall even as a little kid.

is it milos from Canada?

That's actually Pete Sampras. Isn't that funny?
 

ClayDeath

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interesting.

I had no idea so I was just guessing.


once we get a few more people at camelot, I am actually going to fire up a pete Sampras thread there.

he was a special athlete and most definitely one of the 5 greatest players of all times.
 

ClayDeath

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speaking of Sampras:


http://www.realtor.com/news/tennis-legend-pete-sampras-sells-modern-mansion/?cid=PRT300024