Moxie wrote:
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Twisted wrote:
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Moxie wrote:
Let me just say again, just because you find those 5th set losses deplorable, it doesn’t mean he would have otherwise have won them. Just because he should have beaten Del Potro and Safin in those matches “on paper,†doesn’t do justice to the matches, as they were played, and the opponents on the day. It’s difficult to say that you overrate Roger, because he’s so good, but sometimes you do. And you underrate the opponent. It’s not like he lost those matches to chumps. And of course he was given a decent chance to win them, if not even being favored. He has a better record than almost anyone at 3 of the 4 Majors. However, there are reasons that the opponent was better on the day, and that Federer is human enough to have an off day. He isn’t missing those 3 or whatever Majors simply because he sucks at 5th sets. It’s more complicated than that, and the opponents he faced had something to say about it. For the record, it’s not that Rafa became “so weak†after winning RG. He injured his wrist, missed all of the USO season, and then had to have his appendix out. That’s quite a lot of bad luck. The rebound has taken longer than expected, I’ll give you that. But, yes, it left Djokovic without his greatest competitor. Hopefully that changes in 2016. Additionally, I’m going to be shocked and dismayed if the whole rest of the field just folds up its tent and gives up. There has to be a couple of young players with enough starch in their shorts to step up at least occasionally.
Well there are many ways to view the same situation. 3-8 in those matches I mentioned speaks to itself. A loss is a loss, meaning it is an awful result because aside from dying on court there is no worse result than losing. It is an individual sport so there is nowhere to hide. You either prove yourself superior or inferior. No one wants to be the embarrassed dude losing a match. It isn’t team sports where a player can do great and the rest of his team stinks and loses the game. You either do well (win) or you don’t (lose). You’ve probably seen me mention in other forums but that five set record in the biggest matches, instead of the Rafa H2H, is probably the worst number of Roger’s career. It does speak to how incredible a player he is that he is still the greatest/most successful to date given he struggles badly in close matches against top competition. For the most part in his prime Roger either won easily or lost a 5 set war at slams. As for Rafa’s struggles you are in denial at what’s taken place. He didn’t stink last year because of a 2 month wrist injury the year before or having his appendix removed. He was just another year older. He isn’t moving as well and the topspin isn’t as deadly. Without great movement and the deep high bouncing topspin he is not going to play at an elite level period. There is no great serve to lean on, and he can’t end points on his own terms. Add to that a player’s confidence naturally takes a hit as the bad results pile up. I do think he will have a better 2016 but health is not his problem right now (for a change).</blockquote>
Twisted wrote:
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Moxie wrote:
Let me just say again, just because you find those 5th set losses deplorable, it doesn’t mean he would have otherwise have won them. Just because he should have beaten Del Potro and Safin in those matches “on paper,†doesn’t do justice to the matches, as they were played, and the opponents on the day. It’s difficult to say that you overrate Roger, because he’s so good, but sometimes you do. And you underrate the opponent. It’s not like he lost those matches to chumps. And of course he was given a decent chance to win them, if not even being favored. He has a better record than almost anyone at 3 of the 4 Majors. However, there are reasons that the opponent was better on the day, and that Federer is human enough to have an off day. He isn’t missing those 3 or whatever Majors simply because he sucks at 5th sets. It’s more complicated than that, and the opponents he faced had something to say about it. For the record, it’s not that Rafa became “so weak†after winning RG. He injured his wrist, missed all of the USO season, and then had to have his appendix out. That’s quite a lot of bad luck. The rebound has taken longer than expected, I’ll give you that. But, yes, it left Djokovic without his greatest competitor. Hopefully that changes in 2016. Additionally, I’m going to be shocked and dismayed if the whole rest of the field just folds up its tent and gives up. There has to be a couple of young players with enough starch in their shorts to step up at least occasionally.
Well there are many ways to view the same situation. 3-8 in those matches I mentioned speaks to itself. A loss is a loss, meaning it is an awful result because aside from dying on court there is no worse result than losing. It is an individual sport so there is nowhere to hide. You either prove yourself superior or inferior. No one wants to be the embarrassed dude losing a match. It isn’t team sports where a player can do great and the rest of his team stinks and loses the game. You either do well (win) or you don’t (lose). You’ve probably seen me mention in other forums but that five set record in the biggest matches, instead of the Rafa H2H, is probably the worst number of Roger’s career. It does speak to how incredible a player he is that he is still the greatest/most successful to date given he struggles badly in close matches against top competition. For the most part in his prime Roger either won easily or lost a 5 set war at slams. As for Rafa’s struggles you are in denial at what’s taken place. He didn’t stink last year because of a 2 month wrist injury the year before or having his appendix removed. He was just another year older. He isn’t moving as well and the topspin isn’t as deadly. Without great movement and the deep high bouncing topspin he is not going to play at an elite level period. There is no great serve to lean on, and he can’t end points on his own terms. Add to that a player’s confidence naturally takes a hit as the bad results pile up. I do think he will have a better 2016 but health is not his problem right now (for a change).</blockquote>
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I haven’t actually seen you mention on other websites about Roger’s 5th set record being the worst of his CV, but there is an argument for that. It’s actually one of the perplexing things about his overall great play. But that doesn’t mean that he would have or should have otherwise won all of those matches you mention. It’s fair to bring in the opponent and the context, which I have already elaborated on. I’m not sure why I’m in denial about Rafa’s chances for 2016. His problems in 2015 weren’t about his wrist or his health, they were about his confidence, which he was straightforward about. He was finding form and confidence towards the end of this year. He’s a step slower with the dodgy knees, but quickness isn’t the only element of his game. I’ve never said he’s going to retake tennis. But, and especially with the dearth of up-and-comers, there is no reason to think that he doesn’t have a chance to get in the mix. Fed fans have been hoping the same for rather a long time now. No one can pretend that Roger still has a Major in him, at 34, and Rafa doesn’t, at 29. Another point, which you failed to address, and since you’ve restated that winning is the only thing, and that short of dying there is no worse result than losing: why is Federer’s record of reaching finals and SFs, (and QFs) interesting to you, in the ones he didn’t win?
  While you contend that his issue is fitness and lack of drive, there could also be other factors contributing to his decline.  Maybe after this loss, some of his fans will openly discuss the realities with you.
