The Fall of Rafael Nadal

[mrzz]

Talent comes in many forms, and Nadal has loads of it. His strengths are different from Roger's, but they have been very potent.

I never said he had no talent.

Talent? it's impossible to win 14 GS, multiples MS and also beaten many times the "suppose GOAT " without talent. And of course I don't blindly worship like Moxie says, I say what it is, fact!
And talking about "blindly" I don't have any idea what kind of tennis you are watching to talk that way

Don't read what you want into my words. Have I said that Nadal has no talent? No. I answered to an above post where it was said that "The only thing he has more (better) than Nadal is the serve". It is my honest opinion that Federer is more talented than Nadal. We can discuss that, probably in other thread, if you want.

 

[ClayDeath]

talent helps but ultimately it is about the drive, hunger, and relentless will to win.. you have to be willing to make sacrifices.

you need laser like focus and the willingness to work night day on your game and your fitness.

 

[Denis]

talent helps but ultimately it is about the drive, hunger, and relentless will to win.. you have to be willing to make sacrifices.

you need laser like focus and the willingness to work night day on your game and your fitness.

This is why the fall of Rafa Nadal appeals to me in more ways than just a rival running out of gas and no longer beating my favorite player. I actually think it makes Rafa more human. After 14 slams and so many wars, he stops caring. He becomes less of a robot. I can appreciate that. I'll still root for his opponents though, most of the time.

 

[Moxie]

This is why the fall of Rafa Nadal appeals to me in more ways than just a rival running out of gas and no longer beating my favorite player. I actually think it makes Rafa more human. After 14 slams and so many wars, he stops caring. He becomes less of a robot. I can appreciate that. I'll still root for his opponents though, most of the time.

I think you're wrong that he doesn't care. That's a CD trope. But I can see why you feel he's been "humanized." Same with Roger. Rafa was never a "robot," but he was mentally and physically very tough. I mean, you could say that Federer was a "robot" when he was dominating. He also gave very little away emotionally, or from his game. But they get a little older, and the vulnerabilities creep in. This is what softens people on them.

 

[Moxie]

talent helps but ultimately it is about the drive, hunger, and relentless will to win.. you have to be willing to make sacrifices.

you need laser like focus and the willingness to work night day on your game and your fitness.

There is a quote way back from Uncle Toni that I like very much. I am paraphrasing and translating, but he said that: 'Basing your game on talent is not wise, as you can't always rely on your talent to get you through. It's better to base it on hard work.' I used to think particularly of Nalbandian and Safin, as they were both playing when Toni said that. Both very talented, both underachievers, and notoriously distractible from their training. I think this philosophy is responsible for people underrating Nadal's talent, and sometimes emphasizing his work ethic or mentality, over his talent. It is also why I find your notion, CD, that Rafa isn't working hard enough, or doesn't care not credible.

 

[Ricardo]

There is a quote way back from Uncle Toni that I like very much. I am paraphrasing and translating, but he said that: 'Basing your game on talent is not wise, as you can't always rely on your talent to get you through. It's better to base it on hard work.' I used to think particularly of Nalbandian and Safin, as they were both playing when Toni said that. Both very talented, both underachievers, and notoriously distractible from their training. I think this philosophy is responsible for people underrating Nadal's talent, and sometimes emphasizing his work ethic or mentality, over his talent. It is also why I find your notion, CD, that Rafa isn't working hard enough, or doesn't care not credible.

Nadal isn't as talented as Fed (most natural talent in terms of pure tennis) or Djoker (probably most balanced in terms of tennis talent/hard work/mental toughness), so he often has to dig so deep in matches to win when his opponents play at a level above him. I don't know if that burnt him out just a little, given the level of energy required over the years to do such amazing comebacks.

 

[Moxie]

Roger has many weapons. A graceful aspect on court, and a biomechanically efficient way of playing tennis. But a certain arrogance that made him resistant to change for a long time. Djokovic has found a new level later in his career. Nadal has always liked the long points. The many matches. But he is very talented. He has been unfortunate in the terms of his health. I know many like to blame it on his style of game, and there is something in that. But not everything. I don't know how it's really true or measurable that Roger and Nole are more "talented" than Rafa. (Particularly as Djokovic is still rather behind Nadal in accomplishments.) Talent is an odd thing to quantify. So many other things go into winning, as I mentioned before Safin and Nalbandian.

 

[Mastoor]

Thanks for the clarification. It'll be interesting to see if he can up the ante in the clay season.

Depends what you expect from him on clay. If you think he will win each and every title like he once did, I don't think it will happen, but I he may be still the favourite for RG again.

 

[Ricardo]

Roger has many weapons. A graceful aspect on court, and a biomechanically efficient way of playing tennis. But a certain arrogance that made him resistant to change for a long time. Djokovic has found a new level later in his career. Nadal has always liked the long points. The many matches. But he is very talented. He has been unfortunate in the terms of his health. I know many like to blame it on his style of game, and there is something in that. But not everything. I don't know how it's really true or measurable that Roger and Nole are more "talented" than Rafa. (Particularly as Djokovic is still rather behind Nadal in accomplishments.) Talent is an odd thing to quantify. So many other things go into winning, as I mentioned before Safin and Nalbandian.

The issue about his health is not bad luck, tell me you really think he'd be injured as often if he played shorter matches to win, or he is lightly built like Fed/Djoker. Come on, you know its not bad luck, he clearly over-stressed many parts of his body because his style of play demands it.

don't tell me Rafa himself would prefer to win in longer times (and putting in so much physical effort in every shot), if he has a choice. Lets not be ridiculous ok?

 

[Ricardo]

Depends what you expect from him on clay. If you think he will win each and every title like he once did, I don't think it will happen, but I he may be still the favourite for RG again.

Rafa still the favourite at RG?

not a chance, lets see if he can even do well in lead-up events, which was always a given before.

 

[ClayDeath]

Rafa can't even go the distance at Mickey Mouse 250 level events and yet some fools--- into blind worshipping---have him as one of the favorites for RG.

Better wake the hell up. He has no work ethic these days and he simply doesn't care to win.

How much evidence do you need?

He has no fitness and just about 25 percent of the ground game he once had.

anybody expecting him to win anything at all in this state just a fool.

 

[masterclass]

Rafa still raking in the money, entertaining the crowds, and wins.
He played Victor Estrella Burgos in Puerto Rico last night, and won 6-4, 6-4.

For those unaware, [66] Burgos is the second oldest player on the main tour inside the top 100 at 35 and will turn 36 in August this year.
He's a over a year younger than the oldest, [33] Dr. Ivo Karlovic, and about a year older than the the third eldest, [3] Roger Federer.

Burgos on far right

"Are you not Entertained?" [- movie Gladiator]


I wasn't adding up all of Rafa's fees, sponsor money, earnings though the years,
but surely it has to be in the hundreds of millions by now..

He is set for life, even as a falling champion.
I guess now he can jump across the Caribbean and go to Miami without many worries with an extra paycheck in the bank...

I wonder if coach Toni Nadal approves?

Respectfully,
masterclass

 

[ClayDeath]

uncle tony is crying about how the game is changing for the worse.

what bullshit. go out and work instead of constant farting around and producing chicken shit token practice sessions for public consumption.

and hire top tennis help and top fitness experts. you got the damn money. bring in a couple of advisors. go ask Agassi if he can help out a couple of days a week.


hell bring in nalbandian. he is not doing anything. and get your sorry ass on clay.

finally bring in 2 fitness experts. just get to work instead of crying about the game changing for the worse.


just say no to getting swatted aside time and again like a hapless mosquito.

 

[ClayDeath]

This is why the fall of Rafa Nadal appeals to me in more ways than just a rival running out of gas and no longer beating my favorite player. I actually think it makes Rafa more human. After 14 slams and so many wars, he stops caring. He becomes less of a robot. I can appreciate that. I'll still root for his opponents though, most of the time.

he was never a robot. that is why the world was drawn to him.

he worked very hard for his wins but he never bothered to improve and progress his game. it was good enough to beat the world so he ran with it.

heavy topspin game simply requires a superhuman and ultra supreme fitness.

that is why guys like vilas, muster, borg, and rafa have been called the iron men of tennis.

 

[ClayDeath]

it is over folks. he will never win another title again.

why? because he called it a career nearly 2 years ago and nobody was listening.

he can win if he wants to and only he can climb back from such a staggering decline that he engineered all by himself but he just does not want to.

you can only hang around in the top 10 and top 20 for so long while winning exactly zero titles on any surface.

he is an all time great who will easily reach $1 billion in wealth in retirement.

why continue on with the bloody lip service and also getting swatted aside like a hapless mosquito time and again.

enough with the retirement circuit that has lasted nearly 2 years now.

 

[Moxie]

Rafa still raking in the money, entertaining the crowds, and wins.
He played Victor Estrella Burgos in Puerto Rico last night, and won 6-4, 6-4.

For those unaware, [66] Burgos is the second oldest player on the main tour inside the top 100 at 35 and will turn 36 in August this year.
He's a over a year younger than the oldest, [33] Dr. Ivo Karlovic, and about a year older than the the third eldest, [3] Roger Federer.

Burgos on far right

"Are you not Entertained?" [- movie Gladiator]


I wasn't adding up all of Rafa's fees, sponsor money, earnings though the years,
but surely it has to be in the hundreds of millions by now..

He is set for life, even as a falling champion.
I guess now he can jump across the Caribbean and go to Miami without many worries with an extra paycheck in the bank...

I wonder if coach Toni Nadal approves?

Respectfully,
masterclass

Respectfully, or not, what is your point? Does the exho weaken his chances in Miami? Is making the money crass? He does have a foundation to support, which is serving now (in India) and will in Mallorca, lots of kids. In that, I suspect Toni does approve. It's unlikely they don't talk about these things.

 

[ClayDeath]

Respectfully, or not, what is your point? Does the exho weaken his chances in Miami? Is making the money crass? He does have a foundation to support, which is serving now (in India) and will in Mallorca, lots of kids. In that, I suspect Toni does approve. It's unlikely they don't talk about these things.

What chances?

Do you not get this?


He is not out to win because he knows he can't win.

He has exactly zero chance of a title in Miami.

Evidently had zero chance in rio and buenos Aires also.

I told you last year that he was going to win exactly zero titles in 2016.

he was farting around with a meaningless exo in Puerto Rico.

Of course it takes away from his preparation for the clay circuit.

He is farting around in Miami.

what "chances" are you talking about?

I care and you care but unfortunately he is done. He does not care to win.

 

[Moxie]

So quit talking about him, then. You've made your point. What is there left to say that you haven't reiterated about a million times? He's done. Full stop.

 

[ClayDeath]

So quit talking about him, then. You've made your point. What is there left to say that you haven't reiterated about a million times? He's done. Full stop.

this is a Discuss Tennis global tennis community.

you don't tell anybody what to do here. and you most certainly don't even get to look at me in a way that displeases me.

this is the fastest growing global tennis community. people are coming to read and enjoy what we have to say.


you would be a little better off if you take some tennis lessons and start playing.


then and only then can you have some feel for the sport.

also read a few books on the sport as it relates to tennis history. there will be a quiz later.

 

[ClayDeath]

Rafa still raking in the money, entertaining the crowds, and wins.
He played Victor Estrella Burgos in Puerto Rico last night, and won 6-4, 6-4.

For those unaware, [66] Burgos is the second oldest player on the main tour inside the top 100 at 35 and will turn 36 in August this year.
He's a over a year younger than the oldest, [33] Dr. Ivo Karlovic, and about a year older than the the third eldest, [3] Roger Federer.

Burgos on far right

"Are you not Entertained?" [- movie Gladiator]


I wasn't adding up all of Rafa's fees, sponsor money, earnings though the years,
but surely it has to be in the hundreds of millions by now..

He is set for life, even as a falling champion.
I guess now he can jump across the Caribbean and go to Miami without many worries with an extra paycheck in the bank...

I wonder if coach Toni Nadal approves?

Respectfully,
masterclass

uncle tony has given up on Rafa after being yelled at a few times.

but he is family so the two shall never part. most likely Rafa will leave the sport at the end of the year.

there is far more money in retirement for Rafa so why hang around winning exactly nothing and also getting swatted around like a hapless mosquito.

how long can they keep this lip service up. nothing is being done to win any titles.


there is no sufficient work on the fitness front. he is constantly saying he is tired after each and every single match. only now he has said it a few times in practice also.

he said it was too hot and humid in Buenos aires. he said it was too hot Melbourne.

there are no blocks of hard work on clay. the ground game is barely 25% of what it used to be.

maybe he can play himself into a little bit of shape but how far will that carry him.

michael Jordan is worth well over $1 billion and is making over $100 million a year.

rafa is worth far more in retirement also as he can undertake more projects and be a face of more organizations like banks, insurance companies, and tommy Hilfiger and the like.


he can also fart around all day on the golf courses and poker tables. it is clear that he is not going to win anything with this game and this fitness.


I firmly believe that he has damaged his legacy to some extent by not giving his all the last 2 years.