The Fall of Rafael Nadal

[Carol]

This was a Spain Children Championship final when Rafa was 12 year old, he lost and he said: "He played better than me, I couldn't do anything else. I'm practicing tennis every day but I also play soccer to have more fun"
They say that this was the first interview he gave because he didn't like too much to be interviewed
I think still he doesn't like it

 

[Moxie]

Nadal is starting to put some pretty high inflation on his opponents wins against him. For most of his career, winning against Nadal on clay was an achievement only a few of the elite could muster and only very rarely. Everyone nowadays has a shot. This stuff is tainting the old wins

I don't agree with this, either. No one will retro-actively downgrade his achievements or level of play, particularly on clay, because of the way he's playing now. Perhaps you mean that his W-L records and percentages go down, which is true, but some of them are absurdly high, anyway. His W/L is 348-32 (.916, down from about .967 a couple of years ago.) Compare that to Djokovic, who has always been very good on clay: 160-41 (.796) The only other option is for someone to bow out early, like Borg, and I wouldn't have wanted that. Someone recently mentioned that Federer's loss record in Slam finals is now 10, second only to Lendl. But he's still getting himself into finals at Majors, which is still the best place to win them from. And it doesn't take away from the 17 he's won. You can't "taint" old wins, imo.

 

[ClayDeath]

Tony once remarked that Rafa's greatest asset was his relentless will to win.

 

[ClayDeath]

This was a Spain Children Championship final when Rafa was 12 year old, he lost and he said: "He played better than me, I couldn't do anything else. I'm practicing tennis every day but I also play soccer to have more fun"
They say that this was the first interview he gave because he didn't like too much to be interviewed
I think still he doesn't like it

he was a child prodigy who could have been a big star in soccer as well.

just a tremendous athlete of his day. maybe the finest athlete ever in our sport.

only other finest ahtletes that come to mind are borg, nastase, and kriek. kriek was a midget (5 foot 9) by modern standards but he could fly. he could have been a track star as well as a world class gymnast.

borg and nastase could have been superstars in almost any sport.

 

[britbox]

 

[ClayDeath]

my indicator has always been my own eyes and my own observations. one of my indicators for Rafa has always been the long rally.

he gained fame and fortune with living by the Clay Death Long Rally Principle of Death. win the long rally and you kill their spirit. and then you take the match.

I will need to say this again: win the long rally and you win the match. that means you have to win the majority of the long rallies. that destroys their spirit. that takes their belief away. that makes them go away. that takes their hope away.

you will recall that Djokovic talked about this principle after he demolished andy murray in paris. he said something to the effect that he won close to 70% of the long rallies.

now to win the long rally you need supreme fitness and supreme physicality. you have to be in every point. that takes focus, relentless will, and intensity of a runaway steel locomotive.

but above all you need supreme fitness and supreme physicality. this is one of the biggest reason why djokovic is in every point.


I first started to notice this very loss of the control of the long rally for Rafa at the end of 2010 and in 2011. he started losing the control of the long rally.

he has been shedding fitness and physicality ever since 2011. that is nearly 6 years of slow but unmistakable decline in his fitness and physicality.

this is why he has been losing so many finals since 2011. of course today he is worn out after just 40 minutes of play.

so general masterclass has this right: unless we see a dramatic change in fitness and physicality for Rafa, absolutely nothing is going to happen. unless they bring in a fitness expert the party is over for Rafa.


there has been no resurgence at all. he is going backwards. that rank is completely bogus and it wont last.


Rafa will need to bring in a couple of fitness experts and spend about 9 months to approach supreme fitness. and he needs a fitness expert for the gym as well.

it shouldn't be hard to find the hunger now. he has had plenty of time off from tennis. and the money is not a problem either. he is making more money than he ever has before.

finally his resurgence--if it happens at all---will need to begin on clay in 2017.


will it happen? the answer is NO.

 

[Denis]

I don't agree with this, either. No one will retro-actively downgrade his achievements or level of play, particularly on clay, because of the way he's playing now. Perhaps you mean that his W-L records and percentages go down, which is true, but some of them are absurdly high, anyway. His W/L is 348-32 (.916, down from about .967 a couple of years ago.) Compare that to Djokovic, who has always been very good on clay: 160-41 (.796) The only other option is for someone to bow out early, like Borg, and I wouldn't have wanted that. Someone recently mentioned that Federer's loss record in Slam finals is now 10, second only to Lendl. But he's still getting himself into finals at Majors, which is still the best place to win them from. And it doesn't take away from the 17 he's won. You can't "taint" old wins, imo.

I wasn't talking about Nadal, I was talking about his opponents. Nowadays everyone gets to say they have beaten Nadal on clay.

 

[Carol]

Manolo Santana says: " All of us are surprised of the Rafa's bad results but he is a phenomenon and I wouldn't be surprised if he would win this next RG. To win the Olympics could be more dificult though he has one already under his belt. I'm sure he will come back to win more titles"
When they asked about Novak, he says: " He has something better than the others now, confidence, he is seeing himself superior to the others and can beat to anyone which is helping him a lot"

 

[ClayDeath]

again nothing is going to happen without total and complete dedication to the sport for the next 9-12 months.

there has to massive blocks of work on the fitness front. there would have to be endless hours of practice on clay.

these Spanish legends are just being kind to Rafa. he is the biggest name in Spanish sports history.

this year has to be the foundation for 2017. but so far nothing is being done to put together this foundation.

he is going backwards, not forward.

 

[Moxie]

I wasn't talking about Nadal, I was talking about his opponents. Nowadays everyone gets to say they have beaten Nadal on clay.

Either way, it doesn't make sense. Having beaten Nadal on clay during his best years will always have been a big scalp. I still say that an athlete's current form doesn't change the past achievements, either his or his opponents'.

 

[britbox]

Agree with Moxie, decline doesn't taint previous achievements. Sampras is remembered for his Wimbledon triumphs not those couple of years in the wilderness before he won his last US Open.

 

[Denis]

Either way, it doesn't make sense. Having beaten Nadal on clay during his best years will always have been a big scalp. I still say that an athlete's current form doesn't change the past achievements, either his or his opponents'.

Perhaps. But Nadal is tainting his legacy. Being Djokovics main rival, Nadal was the opponent you knew was going to be a formidable challenge where every point counted. This stopped at Monaco 2015. That was the first time I was relaxed when watching one of their matches during the match. Now I look at him as a lesser version of born a coric. A win over Nadal counts as such, which is rediculous considering his past achievements.

 

[Moxie]

Perhaps. But Nadal is tainting his legacy. Being Djokovics main rival, Nadal was the opponent you knew was going to be a formidable challenge where every point counted. This stopped at Monaco 2015. That was the first time I was relaxed when watching one of their matches during the match. Now I look at him as a lesser version of born a coric. A win over Nadal counts as such, which is rediculous considering his past achievements.

I explained my position on this earlier. You don't taint a legacy by staying in the game, you merely reduce your W/L percentages. All athletes decline, unless they bow out early. Nadal may not be a threat to Djokovic now, or may not be again, but he's had some very big and quality wins over him. That doesn't change, whatever happens going forward.

 

[Denis]

I explained my position on this earlier. You don't taint a legacy by staying in the game, you merely reduce your W/L percentages. All athletes decline, unless they bow out early. Nadal may not be a threat to Djokovic now, or may not be again, but he's had some very big and quality wins over him. That doesn't change, whatever happens going forward.

I understand why you are saying that, and I agree to a certain extent. His past achievements are beyond doubt. Just saying I cannot look at the guy the same way I used to. That affects my perception of him, there is no way around it. There is a reason people quit at the peak of their powers. Not saying Nadal should quit, just that his current level affects the perception of him.

 

[Moxie]

I understand why you are saying that, and I agree to a certain extent. His past achievements are beyond doubt. Just saying I cannot look at the guy the same way I used to. That affects my perception of him, there is no way around it. There is a reason people quit at the peak of their powers. Not saying Nadal should quit, just that his current level affects the perception of him.

You're so close to getting it. But I don't agree that his current level should ever affect the perception of his greatness, at its best.

 

[Carol]

again nothing is going to happen without total and complete dedication to the sport for the next 9-12 months.

there has to massive blocks of work on the fitness front. there would have to be endless hours of practice on clay.

these Spanish legends are just being kind to Rafa. he is the biggest name in Spanish sports history.

this year has to be the foundation for 2017. but so far nothing is being done to put together this foundation.

he is going backwards, not forward.

Alex Corretja says the something and don't think they say that just to help or to be nice with Rafa, the Spaniards sometimes are more critical and tough with their own compatriots than with the foreigners, believe me

 

[ClayDeath]

I understand why you are saying that, and I agree to a certain extent. His past achievements are beyond doubt. Just saying I cannot look at the guy the same way I used to. That affects my perception of him, there is no way around it. There is a reason people quit at the peak of their powers. Not saying Nadal should quit, just that his current level affects the perception of him.

that is a great post. I don't watch him play anymore and I am his greatest fan on this planet. I cant even get myself to watch the highlights.

I just know what is going to happen. he has no fitness and about 30% of his game.

he simply let everything go. it is his life. he did what he had to do.


no other all time great suffered such staggering losses on his best surface. and rafa is the greatest ever on his best surface. he dominated that red clay for a decade. Sampras could win even today on grass against most players.

Rafa cant even beat challenger level players on his best surface so what is the use of watching him play.


I prefer to remember him as the sport's greatest gladiator that he once was.

 

[ClayDeath]

Alex Corretja says the something and don't think they say that just to help or to be nice with Rafa, the Spaniards sometimes are more critical and tough with their own compatriots than with the foreigners, believe me

read again. alex also says that he gets tired and then just loses.


you and your player have no place to hide. where the hell is your resurgence theory now?


he is going backwards, NOT FORWARD.



rafa has no fitness for his style of play and less than 30% of his ground game. it may even be less.

he let everything go and still refuses to stop the free fall.


now he is lining up exos on indoor hard courts before the clay season. and he is going to Miami.

get this right for once and for all: he cant beat anybody let alone the top players with the fitness and the game he is bringing.

people at his last match said he was beyond horrible. I don't have to watch him anymore to know what he has done to his game and his fitness.

right now he would have a hard time beating top flight challenger level players on clay to win one of those events.

he is hurting his legacy. he is making a ton of money but his legacy is being tarnished to some extent.

unless we just want to conclude that his retirement circuit is 2 years long. 2015 and 2016.


at this rate he is going to be out of the sport at the end of the year. where can he turn to? what can he win?

I told you very clearly last year that even 250 level events will be difficult for him and they are.


more next time.

 

[Moxie]

that is a great post. I don't watch him play anymore and I am his greatest fan on this planet. I cant even get myself to watch the highlights.

I just know what is going to happen. he has no fitness and about 30% of his game.

he simply let everything go. it is his life. he did what he had to do.


no other all time great suffered such staggering losses on his best surface. and rafa is the greatest ever on his best surface. he dominated that red clay for a decade. Sampras could win even today on grass against most players.

Rafa cant even beat challenger level players on his best surface so what is the use of watching him play.


I prefer to remember him as the sport's greatest gladiator that he once was.

I get that this level of Rafa is not easy to watch. And I would argue he needs a sports psychologist more than a fitness trainer. And if you can't watch him play, you are not his "greatest fan on this planet." Let's face it, you lost faith in him a long time ago. Perhaps it's heartbreak, and you're welcome to that. But slagging him off for not trying is not being a fan.

 

[Carol]

Come on guys, if one player because injuries or age little by little doesn't play so good and today wins but tomorrow loses it's part of the sport and sooner or later everyone goes through that but the Rafa's case is very different, he is playing SOOOOO badly on any surface including clay that means he is in the most deep and rough patch MENTALLY. Francisco Roig said moths ego that it's more dificult to help him with that issue than when he was injured, he knows Rafa much better than us