Tennis Mega Trends

[the AntiPusher]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

excellent point princess moxie. this is a thinking man`s game as well where you have to do a lot of problem solving as the match wears on.


no amount of doping can give you the ability to solve problems on the court.

as much as it is a brutal combat the very top of the sport, it is also quite mental and cerebral.

What the doping does is helps the body recover faster.. I think that is the point that the "poster" was making earlier.. he wants to see the results if the playing field is somewhat level.. I do not agree

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

some athletes are just born for greatness. nothing can stop them.

they have talent on loan from the gods. they just add the work ethic and the drive/hunger.

no amount of doping will help you beat these special athletes. not in tennis.

 

[huntingyou]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

tennis it's extremely technical.......the margins gain from doping are debateable. Still, I don't know what's the deal with this topic; typically people who brings this topic up have an agenda. Pathetic!

If tennis was about muscles, players would be rocking massive weight like baseball for example. Instead, we all know muscles are actually counter productive in tennis past a a point....just look how little they weight and how weak they look when they take their shirt off.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

golf is another one of the sports that cannot benefit from doping.

and lets add chess while we are at it.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Guys, anyone in any sport can benefit from doping. The issue is not if it is going to correct your technique. It is, if you have 2 players with similar capabilities, the one that has recovered faster from the last match will have a clear advantage, fitness wise, that's all. So, if you are using stuff that speeds up recovery,everything else being equal or similar, you have an edge, let it be tennis, golf or curling. It might not give the world #127 an edge against Nole, but when world #127 is battling it out against #129 for that all important Challenger win, that edge is simply huge...

 

[the AntiPusher]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Guys, anyone in any sport can benefit from doping. The issue is not if it is going to correct your technique. It is, if you have 2 players with similar capabilities, the one that has recovered faster from the last match will have a clear advantage, fitness wise, that's all. So, if you are using stuff that speeds up recovery,everything else being equal or similar, you have an edge, let it be tennis, golf or curling. It might not give the world #127 an edge against Nole, but when world #127 is battling it out against #129 for that all important Challenger win, that edge is simply huge...

Recovery is what I said in my post earlier, its the doping advantage

 

[Kieran]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Is doping the only solution to recovery? What about the McEnroe example, above?

I think it's unfair and reckless to insinuate that players are doping, just because they're super fit and hungry athletes. Maybe they are doping, but maybe they aren't...

 

[tented]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

I'm sure many will think me naive, but honestly I don't know why anyone would take PEDs anymore. Isn't obvious the rate at which people are getting caught -- sometimes even years after the fact? Is it really worth the risk, humiliation, and loss? I'm hoping what has happened in cycling, and to a handful of Olympic athletes, will begin to turn things around. Athletes can see that the technology will catch up, they will be found out, medals and trophies and titles will be taken away -- it's not worth it.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Is doping the only solution to recovery? What about the McEnroe example, above?

I think it's unfair and reckless to insinuate that players are doping, just because they're super fit and hungry athletes. Maybe they are doping, but maybe they aren't...

I am not sure who this post is directed to, but all I was saying was everything being equal or similar, the guy who recovers faster has an edge. That was in response to folks saying in tennis, doping has no advantage. I think it does, in that sense. I did not name names

 

[tented]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Is doping the only solution to recovery? What about the McEnroe example, above?

I think it's unfair and reckless to insinuate that players are doping, just because they're super fit and hungry athletes. Maybe they are doping, but maybe they aren't...

I am not sure who this post is directed to, but all I was saying was everything being equal or similar, the guy who recovers faster has an edge. That was in response to folks saying in tennis, doping has no advantage. I think it does, in that sense. I did not name names

I can't speak for Kieran, but I'm 99.9% positive this was not directed at you.

 

[Kieran]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Is doping the only solution to recovery? What about the McEnroe example, above?

I think it's unfair and reckless to insinuate that players are doping, just because they're super fit and hungry athletes. Maybe they are doping, but maybe they aren't...

I am not sure who this post is directed to, but all I was saying was everything being equal or similar, the guy who recovers faster has an edge. That was in response to folks saying in tennis, doping has no advantage. I think it does, in that sense. I did not name names

It's not directed at you, Murat, or anyone else. It's just a thought thrown into the pool. Anyone who thinks that PED's are the only method of recovery after a long hard match, hasn't been paying attention to tennis history. It's possible that players use drugs, but - for example - Sampras was vomiting from exhaustion and placed on a drip after his qf victory against Corretja at the US Open in 1996. 2 days later he dispatched Goran in 4, then the following day blunted liddle Mickey Chang in straights in the final.

These guys are extremely driven, almost macho in their ability to absorb pain and recover quick enough to land a fast jab...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

I hear you Kieran, and I agree that PEDs are not the only way to a speedy recovery, but they sure can be a nice short-cut for the overly ambitious. And I suspect, personally, they are used more among the lower ranked players trying to make it to the big show. The Satellite and the Challenger circuits are brutal. Lots of travel, no supporting mechanism, little money, crappy accommodations, all for a handful of points. You would want to get out of that circuit as fast as you can.

 

[tented]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

The Satellite and the Challenger circuits are brutal. Lots of travel, no supporting mechanism, little money, crappy accommodations, all for a handful of points. You would want to get out of that circuit as fast as you can.

And therefore not take PEDs, because you would likely be tested for them upon making the leap into the big leagues. Again, I just don't understand why anyone would be doing this these days.

It's one thing when baseball players were doing it in bunches 15-20 years ago, when the technology wasn't capable of detecting them. But that's not the case anymore. And even if there are PEDs which the current testing can't detect, isn't it clear that eventually it will?

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

The Satellite and the Challenger circuits are brutal. Lots of travel, no supporting mechanism, little money, crappy accommodations, all for a handful of points. You would want to get out of that circuit as fast as you can.

And therefore not take PEDs, because you would likely be tested for them upon making the leap into the big leagues. Again, I just don't understand why anyone would be doing this these days.

It's one thing when baseball players were doing it in bunches 15-20 years ago, when the technology wasn't capable of detecting them. But that's not the case anymore. And even if there are PEDs which the current testing can't detect, isn't it clear that eventually it will?

That's certainly one way of looking at it. A couple years back I was reading an article about how some junior hockey players were doing PEDs just to get ahead and make it to NHL. I guess they are thinking if they can just make it, they will stop...but at the lower levels the competition is so fierce and so few are picked that kids will use any edge. I don't agree with it but one can see why it can happen.

 

[the AntiPusher]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Is doping the only solution to recovery? What about the McEnroe example, above?

I think it's unfair and reckless to insinuate that players are doping, just because they're super fit and hungry athletes. Maybe they are doping, but maybe they aren't...

Kieran, it's not about being fair or reckless but it's just the way the modern day in sports. With any endurance sport, the likeness that a small sample of players are trying to gain a competitve advantage increases. Murat made a point about this, I agreed but do not want to see change as I mentioned earlier.As usual this thread will get flipped that AP said all the top players are doping which I never did.

 

[britbox]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

While there are PEDs around, there will always be doping.The testing process is so flawed in tennis, it would be relatively simple to avoid detection for the most part.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

This whole thread has gotten a little ridiculous. Let's not minimize the advantage doping can have in tennis or any physical sport. EPO, blood doping or anything that can greatly enhance endurance would be a HUGE edge. It's not just about recovery time between matches...how about helping players in long, physical matches play at 100% all match. Again...big edge.

Quick question for everyone on the board...a nasty hypothetical one. If your favorite player was busted for PED's tomorrow would you still be a fan at all, or just be "slightly disappointed" in their cheating? I can honestly say I'd feel cheated out of 10 years if Roger was doing PED's all this time. I would not root for him at all, I would want him pretty much out of the sport. Similar sentiment going around where I'm from with Ryan Braun. You have plenty of people here who will still love the guy and I'd be thrilled if they released him tonight.

And yes, Clay Death, there is "doping" in chess even. As someone who played I know a huge edge can be gained by taking anything that enhances focus and energy. I'd imagine only the highest level tournaments are testing players and I doubt there is a whole lot on the restricted list but there are still some supplements that can't be taken as it would be an unfair advantage.

 

[tented]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Quick question for everyone on the board...a nasty hypothetical one. If your favorite player was busted for PED's tomorrow would you still be a fan at all, or just be "slightly disappointed" in their cheating? I can honestly say I'd feel cheated out of 10 years if Roger was doing PED's all this time. I would not root for him at all, I would want him pretty much out of the sport. Similar sentiment going around where I'm from with Ryan Braun. You have plenty of people here who will still love the guy and I'd be thrilled if they released him tonight.

I recently exchanged PMs with another Rafa fan, and said I would feel the same if Rafa were caught, as you would feel about Roger. I've spent years rooting for him, watching his matches, posting on tennis message boards (!), so to find out he had been cheating all along would be awful.

It's the way some felt when Armstrong finally admitted to doping, especially those who so vehemently defended him for so long. I think some of those guys honestly believed Armstrong was innocent, and were crushed when the truth came out. (Well, when some of the truth came out. We'll never know the whole story, of course.)

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

doping in tennis---if it exists at all---is hardly the biggest trend in the sport.


the biggest trend is the runaway speed and the power in the game.

 

[britbox]

RE: Are You Happy With the Direction the Sport is Going

Bear in mind that the number of out of competition blood tests in tennis is pretty pathetic. There were 21 out of competition blood tests based on the last figures released. That's across the whole sport.... TWENTY ONE!!

Also bear in mind that three missed tests on a rolling 18 month period will get you banned. So basically one individual player has to miss three tests in 18 months to get a ban. The chances of them getting a blood test three times in 18 months are basically nil. If they are taking, then they can make themselves "unavailable" for a test twice running... and can repeat the process once one of those missed tests passes an 18 month time period.

Also for urine tests they can microdose - take small amounts that won't show up in a urine test. Players have to specify an hour when they are available - typically 6 or 7 am in the morning. They can't be tested during the night so can easily take a microdose at 9 or 10 pm, knowing there will be no test for several hours when the dose will have cleared the system.

One thing I will say about tennis is that the out-of-competition periods are pretty minimal - there is a very small out of competition window, and obviously the other skill factors that come into play. I think the impact of drug use is far less than for some athletic sports like cycling or sprinting. But it will give an edge, no doubt and I'd hazard a guess that small scale doping is quite widespread.

I look forward to the biological passport being introduced, but would dearly love to see information and transparency on missed tests released into the public domain - against each player missing them.